The Instigator
Microsuck
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jarhyn
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

We will not contradict ourselves

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jarhyn
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 885 times Debate No: 28295
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

Microsuck

Pro

Welcome to the variation of the "I will not contradict myself" debates that my opponent and I thought of in a PM. In this debate, we will try to answer each other's questions without contradicting ourselves. Con will ask me questions that I must respond to and I have to ask con questions that he must respond to.

Rounds:

1) Presentation of first questions by Pro and Con (no answers please to keep this parallel)
2) Answer/Ask
3) Answer/Ask
4) Answer
5) Closing

Anywhere in this debate you can point out a contradiction that the opponent has stated. The definition of a "contradiction" is two or more propositions which are logically incompatible (X cannot be and not be simultaneously).

Rules:

1) 10 questions per round
2) Must be yes/no/na questions
3) If additional clarification is needed please state so (no points deducted)
4) The first definition that is presented is the one that is used
5) If neither player contradicts himself, then this debate should be tied.

Questions:

1. Is your profile information on your DDO profile regarding the stance you take on the big issues accurate?
2. Do you support a minimum wage?
3. Is it ever appropriate for the government to declare any voluntary contract between two consenting adults illegal (NOTE: This question does not refer only to sexual activities)?
4. Are you insane?
5. Do you like to sing?
6. Have you ever mooted before?
7. Can you know for sure that this debate is taking place?
8. Do you agree with all the actions that Barack Obama has taken as President?
9. Should the US Government force employers to pay for contraception, even if it goes against their religion?
10. Do you believe in a big government?

That's all and I look forward to your answers.
Jarhyn

Con

1. Is your profile information on your DDO profile regarding the stance you take on the big issues accurate?
No
Additional clarification: My stance on the big issues is generally more nuanced than a pro/con view allows, and as my views are predicated on knowledge and knowlede changes in both apparent validity and certitude over the course of time, my published views may not accurately reflect my actual views.

2. Do you support a minimum wage?
No
Addional clarification: The minimum wage as a solution for applying the benefits of decreased social costs to the whole of society is a bad solution to which better alternatives exist. Hence I do not support a minimum wage, however this does not necessarily mean that I am against contracts which implement a minimum wage

3. Is it ever appropriate for the government to declare any voluntary contract between two consenting adults illegal (NOTE: This question does not refer only to sexual activities)?
Yes

4. Are you insane?
No
Additional clarification: I am sane insofar as I am able to form accurate models of reality, and that those models generally lead me to not be an existential threat to self or others, except when such an existential threat is objectively necessary to serve the greater good of society.

5. Do you like to sing?
Yes
Additional clarification: I enjoy singingin the general sense of making a series of different tonal sounds which to me sound subjectively pretty; any more specific activity is subject to being potentially not-liked.

6. Have you ever mooted before?
Yes
Addtional clarification: Assuming that to moot is to raise a question for the purposes of discussion, and that to be mooted is to be the target of such an activity.

7. Can you know for sure that this debate is taking place?
No
Additional clarification: I have had experiences in the past which indicate a bad representation of reality has been produced my senses, therefore I can induct that the certainty of my senses is suspect; at best I can have reasonable knowledge, but not absolute (sure) knowledge that this debate is taking place.

8. Do you agree with all the actions that Barack Obama has taken as President?
No

9. Should the US Government force employers to pay for contraception, even if it goes against their religion?
No
Addtional Clarification: The US government should force employers to pay for necessary medical care and some stipend or allowance or trust from which the employee has free reign to spend for elective medical purposes. To that extent, they are simply paying employees for elective medicine purchases, not explicitly for contraception. Otherwise, employers are ALREADY able to be seen as paying for contraception in paying their employees arbirarily spendable wages at all.

10. Do you believe in a big government?
No
Additional Clarification: I believe in four things: The universe exists, knowledge exists, preditive models are superior to non-predictive models, and that equals ought be treated equally. Anything else, including my positions on government are not beliefs, but reasoned positions, with the acknowledgement of the level of uncertainty present as implied by the problem of induction. Further, my position on the size of government is complex; in some ways it is too big, and in other different ways it is not big enough.

To PRO
1. Are you sane?
2. Is the direction to which gravity pulls to be considered "down"?
3. Does the sun exert gravity upon you?
4. Does the moon exert gravity upon you?
5. Are all things to be permitted?
6. Do you believe that the universe exists?
7. Is it sure that I exist?
8. Is it sure that you exist?
9. Is the universe the same as its identity?
10. Can the universe have a specific cause?
Debate Round No. 1
Microsuck

Pro

Thank you.

1. Are you sane?

Yes
Additional clarifications: I am sane in the sense that I can form accurate models of reality and these models lead me to not be a threat to others or myself. Moreover, I am sane in the sense that I am of a sound and healthy mind.

2. Is the direction to which gravity pulls to be considered "down"?
Additional clarification is needed. "Down" in relationship to what?

3. Does the sun exert gravity upon you?
4. Does the moon exert gravity upon you?
Yes
Additional clarification: The sun and moon both exert gravity upon me in the sense that gravity causes the sun, earth, and moon to be drawn to each other. The gravity keeps the earth in check and the earth's gravity keeps the moon in check. They balance out perfectly.


5. Are all things to be permitted?
No
Additional clarification: There are certain things that are morally impermissible (i.e., rape, murder, etc.)

6. Do you believe that the universe exists?
No
Additional clarification: I do not believe that the universe exists, rather I accept that the universe exists based upon my observations and experience.

7. Is it sure that I exist?
8. Is it sure that you exist?
I'm not 100% certain, though I can be reasonably confident that you and I both exist.

9. Is the universe the same as its identity?
10. Can the universe have a specific cause?
Additional information is requested, what do you mean by "identity" and "cause"?

Questions
1. Can we know anything for absolute certainty?
2. Are you positive that you are not insane (per question 4 of round 1)
3. Is solipsism true?
4. Do you consider yourself a reliable person?
5. A barber cuts the hair of all men that live in a fictional town that do not cut their own hair. The barber lives in that fictional town. Does he cut his own hair?
6. If someone states, "I am lying now", is he lying?
7. You travel back in time and kill your grandfather before he conceives one of your parents, which preculdes your own conception. Are you ever born?
8. Is anything in science absolute?
9. Have you ever told a whopper?
10. Is Obama better than Bush?
Jarhyn

Con

Jarhyn forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Microsuck

Pro

Because my opponent forfeited. I withhold questions until my opponent answers the last round. If he fails to, I request a pro vote.
Jarhyn

Con

1. Can we know anything for absolute certainty?
yes
Addictional Clarification: I think therefore am; the one thing any sane person cannot deny is the existence of self, as it is tautologically true

2. Are you positive that you are not insane (per question 4 of round 1)
Yes
Additional clarification: insofar as I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt

3. Is solipsism true?
n/a
Additional Clarification: There's no way to know for sure, however. If I were to assume that the universe exists, as I generally do, then I would be begging the question that solipsism is false.

4. Do you consider yourself a reliable person?
yes
Additional clarification: The parts of my person work generally reliably, and do not break down often.

5. A barber cuts the hair of all men that live in a fictional town that do not cut their own hair. The barber lives in that fictional town. Does he cut his own hair?
N/A
Additional Comments: The preconditions in the question result in a contradiction.

6. If someone states, "I am lying now", is he lying?
N/A
Additional Comments: He is speaking nonsense, which is not even a lie.

7. You travel back in time and kill your grandfather before he conceives one of your parents, which preculdes your own conception. Are you ever born?
N/A
Additional Comments: It depends on whether or not time travel spawns a branching of universal causality; in the worst of cases you invoke a paradox into reality, and we don't really know what happens in that case, or if it is even possible; generally it is thought not to be.

8. Is anything in science absolute?
No
Additional Comments: Key word in rather than of, where "in science" is taken to mean "the discoveries or theories of science" rather than the metaphysics of science.

9. Have you ever told a whopper?
No
Addiional Comments: I have never spoken to a whopper sandwich from Burger King; I have never even seen one, let alone told anything to it.

10. Is Obama better than Bush?
Yes
Additional Comments: Obama is quite attractive, and a fairly intelligent man, whereas the hair that grows from a crotch I find marginally unattractive and otherwise useless. If given the choice between Obama and Bush, I would pick Obama any day; for all I know Obama might have Bush, in which case he'd certainly be better than just Bush.

Questions:
1. Can anything be known with absolute certainty?
2. Can solipsism be valid?
3. Do you answer the questions from this debate reliably?
4. Has Bush been a bad decision?
6. Are boxers preferable to briefs?
7. Do you shave your crotch?
8. Do you make good decisions?
9. Are you clever?
10. Are you an athletic supporter?
Debate Round No. 3
Microsuck

Pro

Thank you.

1. Can anything be known with absolute certainty?
Yes
Additional Information: Answering "No" is self-contradictory.

2. Can solipsism be valid?
N/A: What do you mean by "valid."

3. Do you answer the questions from this debate reliably?
Yes

4. Has Bush been a bad decision?
Yes
There are bad decisions that George W. Bush has made. That does not mean; however, that he made good decisions. However, I believe that over all, Bush was a horrible President.

6. Are boxers preferable to briefs?
N/A
Additional comments: I have really no opinion on this.

7. Do you shave your crotch?
Sometimes.

8. Do you make good decisions?
Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

9. Are you clever?
Yes
Additional comments: I'm "clever" in the sense that I consider myself to be quick to understand, learn, and devise or apply ideas. However, this is of course my opinion - others may disagree.


10. Are you an athletic supporter?
I am not athletic myself, but I am an athletic supporter.

Questions

1. Have you answered the questions reliably throughout this debate?
2, Have you stopped beating your wife?
3. Is your DDO profile accurate?
4. Has President Bush made any good decisions?
5. Have you ever told a lie?
6. Are you lying now?
7. Have you contradicted yourself in this debate?
8. Do you consider yourself to be "fat"?
9. Do you believe in Common Descent?
10. Is it possible that any Deity exists.
Jarhyn

Con

First, apologies to PRO for depriving him (and myself) of one full round of questions. Second, I'm fairly certain that I'm entitled to one additional round of questions so that me and PRO might be even; he opened with asking, thus I close with asking, and doing so does not deprive him of the ability to respond to this, my last set of answers.

1. Have you answered the questions reliably throughout this debate?
Yes
Additional Clarification: Insofar as I have tried to answer them reliably; I have no way of knowing for sure, except that I know that I exist.

2, Have you stopped beating your wife?
No
Additional Clarification: While I have stopped beating my ex boyfriend, I've never had a wife to beat, so I can't have stopped beating a wife I don't have.

3. Is your DDO profile accurate?
No
Additional Clarification: As my DDO Profile is not necessarily accurate on the big issues, it cannot be accurate in whole.

4. Has President Bush made any good decisions?
N/A
Additional Clarification: There is no "President Bush" at this time. Currently there is only President Obama, however Once-President Bush, both Sr. and G.W. Bush, make good decisions in the pragmatic sense: their decisions made a lot of money, and allow them to continue to live fat and happy.

5. Have you ever told a lie?
Yes
Additional Clarification: I have said things that do not reflect the true state of reality.

6. Are you lying now?
No
Additional Clarification: But there's no way to really know that for sure...

7. Have you contradicted yourself in this debate?
I don't really know.

8. Do you consider yourself to be "fat"?
sometimes

9. Do you believe in Common Descent?
No
Additional Clarification: I do not belive in common descent, nor do I even like it very much. However, being geneally sane, I accept that it is more likely, given the evidence, than any alternative.

10. Is it possible that any Deity exists.
N/A
Additional Clarification: A Deity, as a being that is not affected by the laws of the universe, would not be able to be a part of the universe, and thus would not exist. The very concept of a deity actively "existing" is nonsensical.

1. Do you believe the universe exists?
2. Do you believe that knowledge exists?
3. Do you believe that predictive models are superior to any non-predictive model?
4. Do you believe that equals ought be treated equally?
5. Are you a nihilist?
6. Are you a solipsist?
7. Are you an article of clothing?
8. Do you prevent the jiggling of another person's dangly bits while they play at sports?
9. Are furries sane?
10. Am I sane?
Debate Round No. 4
Microsuck

Pro

Thank you. I have not been able to find any contradiction from con. Unfortunately, if con finds me to contradict myself, I will not have any more rounds to defend myself though the rules clearly state that he is allowed to do that.

1. Do you believe the universe exists?
N/A

I don't "believe" the Universe exists, I accept the Universe exists.

2. Do you believe that knowledge exists?

Yes

3. Do you believe that predictive models are superior to any non-predictive model?

In science, yes.

4. Do you believe that equals ought be treated equally?
Yes

5. Are you a nihilist?

6. Are you a solipsist?
7. Are you an article of clothing?
8. Do you prevent the jiggling of another person's dangly bits while they play at sports?
No


9. Are furries sane?
What's a furrie?


10. Am I sane?

If by "I" you mean "you", then I would not know for sure as I am not you nor am I your Doctor.

Thank you and good luck.
Jarhyn

Con

as CON has little opportunity to rebut except in comments (which I hope voters look at, and use to make such a decision), I will keep this rather brief.

Con in my estimation has contradicted himself in two of his rounds.

First, he has contradicted himself in claiming that he is sane, and then in claiming that from his own perspective, he is unsure of the existence of himself, when the existence of self is a tautological truth. No sound or healthy mind questions whether it questions, at least not very long anyway!

Second, CON has claimed to be an athletic supporter. As it was no previously defined except to outline what it is not, I construe this to mean "an article of clothing designed to support the testicles, penis, or breasts of a athlete". In the following round, CON then claimed to NOT be an article of clothing, or in any way preventative of the jiggling of such organs. This is clearly contradictory!

Thank you, and best of wishes to CON for this enjoyable debate!
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by GorefordMaximillion 4 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
OOPS I mean...

Q: Is this debate good.

(Q: Is "good" good?)

A: No. If this debate is "good" it can be substituted for "good" in any statement.

ex: You two are good debaters. You two are debate (We will not contradict ourselves) debaters.
Posted by GorefordMaximillion 4 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
Very entertaining!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by GorefordMaximillion 4 years ago
GorefordMaximillion
MicrosuckJarhynTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: con pointed out two of pro's contradictions