The Instigator
HandsOff
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
TheLastEmperorOfDebate
Con (against)
Losing
18 Points

Wealthy people are a minority in the U.S. and deserve protection from unfair discrimination.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/27/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,880 times Debate No: 4238
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (16)

 

HandsOff

Pro

It is wrong to single out a minority and treat them differently than the rest of society. This country has put all sorts of policies in place to protect minorities and insure that they are treated equally as well as the rest. Unfortunately the guarantees of fairness stop with those the government considers affluent. They are taxed at a higher percentage then their fellow Americans, and are constantly exploited as a source to pay for the mismanagement of our country's finances on the part of the majority and their elected officials.

As of yet no one has been successful in coming to their defense. Will the most productive of our society ever receive equal treatment under the law? They will most certainly always be in the minority. Will anyone be able to save them from the money-grubbing majority?
TheLastEmperorOfDebate

Con

I dont get it, are you against the topic ? or you support the topic? well I would say that rich people get taxed more than ordinary people because, well its obvious! because they make more than ordinary people.And also rich people are usually very powerful, you could buy almost anything if you have the money, so to make them less powerful the government cast them out, as the abnormal.
Debate Round No. 1
HandsOff

Pro

I am Pro the notion that they need protection and are treated unfairly. But they are not treated unfairly because they pay more in taxes. The unfairness occurs because they are ordered to pay a higher percentage. Percentages are very useful because they can create fairness on a proportional level. But when you make one group pay a higher percentage in taxes than another, that is just outright discrimination foisted upon them by the majority.

Just because someone makes more money than the next guy does not mean he should pay a higher price for services rendered. I'm sure you would consider it discriminatory to charge wealthy people higher prices for food and clothing than prices charged to the non-wealthy. Why do we see no problem when such injustice is committed by overcharging the wealthy for government services. The injustice is further compounded by the fact that the wealthy are less likely to use their share of government services due to their self-reliance.
TheLastEmperorOfDebate

Con

TheLastEmperorOfDebate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
HandsOff

Pro

HandsOff forfeited this round.
TheLastEmperorOfDebate

Con

TheLastEmperorOfDebate forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
britt,
I might try this one again with a serious opponent. Are you up for it?

"What are your definitions of "fairness" and "equality"?"

Fairness & equality: common sense fairness. For example: common sense dictates that it is wrong to charge one person more for a hamburger than the next. So why is it so hard for liberals to see that charging someone a different tax rate for the same services as the next guy is unfair. The only criteria liberals (and the religious righ) use to decide if something is "fair" or "right" is whether the majority think it is fair or right. That's a pretty lousy criteria if you ask me.

"An argument could be made that the rich are taxed more because they have benefited the most from America's system, no?"

Again, that is where the fixed percentage comes in handy (versus the unfair progressive taxes). It assures everyone's contributions are proportionally commensurate with their incomes.
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
Uber,
"It is virtually quasi-axiomatic that a millionaire should have more responsibility towards maintaining the general order in society than a pauper."

Percentages work rather well in assuring that the wealthier take more responsibility. The injustice of discrimination occurs when one person is told he must pay a HIGHER percentage than the next. That's blatantly wrong.
Posted by brittwaller 8 years ago
brittwaller
Obviously, had to vote PRO here. A good topic, HandsOff, I just wish your opponent would have been more... involved?

One small question: "The offense if blatantly inconsistent with the values of fairness and equality and demonstrates once again how democracy is little more than mob rule."

What are your definitions of "fairness" and "equality"?

The part about democracy might be true, but at least the bottom of the barrel can look out for their own interests. America parades as a classless society, but I think we definitely have our own aristocracy. In agreement with Ubercrycix's (is he related to Vercingetorix or something?) comment, they, along with the rest of the citizenry, have an obligation to the society they live in, in civil and economic terms. An argument could be made that the rich are taxed more because they have benefited the most from America's system, no?

I've been bored lately. Feel like a debate sometime?

Britt
Posted by cynicalbanana 8 years ago
cynicalbanana
"I am Pro the notion that they need protection and are treated unfairly. But they are not treated unfairly because they pay more in taxes. The unfairness occurs because they are ordered to pay a higher percentage."

Is it not the same? Paying a higher percentage and paying more in taxes? -.-
Posted by cynicalbanana 8 years ago
cynicalbanana
For heaven's sake. The more money you have, the more taxes you are supposed to pay. The less money you have, the less taxes you are supposed to pay. Where is the discrimination in that?
Posted by UberCryxic 8 years ago
UberCryxic
With greater wealth comes greater power, and with greater power comes greater responsibility. It is virtually quasi-axiomatic that a millionaire should have more responsibility towards maintaining the general order in society than a pauper. Discriminating on the basis of responsibility does not particularly bother me. Some types of discrimination, like racial or sex discrimination, have an improper basis and should not be allowed, but other forms of discrimination - like discriminating based on wealth - are perfectly legitimate benchmarks that governments can use to ameliorate societies.
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
"Is food, shelter and medical care important to life? I would like you to directly answer that."

Yes.

"is it better for money to spent or life to be lost?"

2. The problem with sympathetic responses to emotional ploys is that they fall apart under the scrutiny of logical consistency. If I say "money should always take a backseat to life lost" then George Bush has the green light to save the world from death caused by war, oppression and poverty. The appropriate answer is, it depends. Either way we would need evidence that life was actually at risk. I don't think there is a substantial evidence that fair taxation would lead to death here in the U.S. I think we could have a fair tax code without killing anyone.

Now, as you were saying...
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
Sorry, the emotional ploys and exagerations were so glaring. Give me a minute.
Posted by qwarkinator 8 years ago
qwarkinator
You did not respond to any of my points. In addition you did answer the question I had asked you to. Until you actually respond to the points I made I will not respond to your points.
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
"Since human rights come before profits slaves were freed from their masters."

In the case of discrimination against the wealthy, the rights of the wealthy are being violated to generate profit for the state. And yes it is wrong. Good point.

"is it better for money to spent or life to be lost?"

By the way, who are these people who will be "losing their lives" if taxes on the rich were commensurate with taxes on everyone else (say a flat tax). There is more than enough wasted tax money to compensate for any reduction in tax revenue that would result from ending this unfair discrimination.
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Vote Placed by Araku 8 years ago
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