The Instigator
Austyn1030
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Vox
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Welfare is a waste of Money

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,600 times Debate No: 36773
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Austyn1030

Con

Welfare is a waste of Money.. Why should I have to pay for other people to sit on there asses and ask Uncle sam for a break. I understand that some people don't take advantage of the welfare system like 75% of people do. Then we need to have a better way to sort through the people... Cause watching a mother of 4 walk into a welfare building with all 4 kids ( including youngest looks to be around 8-10 years of age ) with a iphone... So you can afford for a cell phone but you still need money from the government. Wake up people we are getting used.... Feel Free to debate this...
Vox

Pro

I'd like to thank you for being interested in discussing this topic.
First off, I will lay a framework, respond directly to your statements, and offer some solutions.

In the past people were owned as slaves, but slaves were not very productive. For starters, they had to be constantly ordered around and told what to do. If you asked a slave to move a rock, they would only move it half way or move the wrong rock and they had to be corrected. Human beings do not like being slaves, and when forced to do something they will intentionally do it poorly or the wrong way.

Eventually through the ages we advanced to serfdom. You were allowed to a plot of land and to work it, but you had no real freedom. You were bound to your lord, essentially owned like a slave.

Today, in the modern age, we are allowed to choose our occupation, our home, our spouse, and we’re far freer than we have ever been, but we’re still not free. Think about your country as a farm, the borders of that country a fence, the government a farmer, and you an animal. A farmer may give his cows an entire field to graze, but only if they produce more meat. You have the illusion of freedom, but 50% of your productivity is taxed. I suppose that only makes you half a slave.

The people who are on welfare are on the payroll of the farmer, and as such they will viciously attack anyone who opposes the farmer’s rule. This is why it’s not a waste, because these people become so reliant on the system that it’s in their best interest to keep it. In other words, the welfare system is doing its job not by helping people in need but by keeping them in poverty and reliant on the government.

“Why should I have to pay for other people to sit on there asses and ask Uncle sam for a break.”
The same reason why you have to pay Uncle Sam at all, you are a cow on a farm.

“I understand that some people don't take advantage of the welfare system like 75% of people do.”
If you give people an incentive to be lazy they will be lazy.

“Then we need to have a better way to sort through the people...”
The best thing we could do is to abolish the entire welfare system and rely on charity for those who are truly in need. This would give people incentive to get jobs again, and people who really do require help will receive charity from people who actually know something about their situation rather than just blindly handing out money.

“Cause watching a mother of 4 walk into a welfare building with all 4 kids ( including youngest looks to be around 8-10 years of age ) with a iphone... So you can afford for a cell phone but you still need money from the government.“
This is a whole ‘nother can of worms. The media portrays men as dumb, irresponsible, lazy, and sex obsessed while simultaneously portraying single women as strong, hardworking, intelligent, and independent. This devaluing of men is creating a generation of children without fathers, with the state subsidizing it all.

“Wake up people we are getting used...”
Indeed.
Debate Round No. 1
Austyn1030

Con

I thank you for Challenging this topic.

"Wake Up people we are getting used... Indeed "

With that statement are you telling me that you are pro welfare or Con welfare cause that stumps me a little...

Id like to just say that I have no problem paying taxes.. I understand that taxes are used for things in this country ... I live in this country and I will pay rent. BUT like I said before... The government needs to come up with a better way to decipher the Free loaders and the partakers. So again, I like what you said about "abolish the entire welfare system" . But the government will let these people sit on there asses and be Partakers when they are really freeloaders.

Questions For PRO:

1. Are you pro Welfare or con?
2. What's your opinion on the amount and the way the welfare is distributed?
Vox

Pro

Questions For PRO:

1. Are you pro Welfare or con?

Sorry, if I wasn’t clear enough. I am against the government program called welfare, but I am all for giving aid in the form of money or necessities to those in need.


2. What's your opinion on the amount and the way the welfare is distributed?

As I said before, I think that welfare would be better distributed through charities or not for profits. These sorts of organizations used to be prevalent before the government took it over. The government tends to be incompetent and inefficient at everything it does, welfare is no exception.

Also I wanted to comment on your statement about taxes, “I live in this country and I will pay rent. “

You cannot equate taxes to rent. Paying rent is a voluntary situation where you choose to give up your money in exchange for a place to live. Taxes on the other hand are forced on people simply because they are born in a region. It would be more like being born in a house that your parents rented, and then being forced to also pay rent once you’re old enough to have a job. Also you’re not allowed to move without both renters agreeing on it, and even then you have to fill out mountains of paper work and get interviewed by the new renter, and a forced physical at a hospital that the new renter approves. Also you must obey all laws and regulations from that renter or else men with guns will show up at your house and lock you in a cage. As you can see, it really isn't the same at all.



Now please allow me to ask you some questions.

1. Let's be clear on what you're actually against, are you against giving aid in the form of money or necessities to those in need, or are you against government program called welfare?

2. If you paid diminished or no taxes as a result of the government abolishing their program called welfare, would you choose to use your excess income to give to charities and non-profits that give aid to people who actually need it?

Debate Round No. 2
Austyn1030

Con

" Lets Be Clear on what you're actually against, are you against giving aid in the form of money or necessities to those in need, or are you against government porgram called welfare"

Ok so i dont care what the program is called, any program that gives free money ( and thats what it is ) away to people that cheat the system is what i dont like... I am all for giving money to people that need it. We put all this money intowelfare but look how we treat our veterans. I find it wrong ait discusts me.You might have differnt thought on this topic but this is how it is...

" If you paid diminsihed or no taxes as a result of the government abolishing their program called welfare, would you choose to use your excess income to give to charities and non profits that give aid to people who actually need it?"

Well sir i hope you dont think that welfare is the only program out there that uses are tax money, Sir and i hope you dont think that welfare is the only program out there that gives free money to the people who again cheat the system. Let me give ya something to think about. Whenever there is something that is harmful, whether it be in politics or something else. If that thing is removed or deleted from the system there will always be a replacement to take its place.

Now onto my last point about taxes being like rent... your thinking too much about it, ill give ya a comparison.

if you skip rent then you are thrown out and if ya don't pay it ... you can possibly be prosecuted. If you skip out on taxes you WILL get prosecuted. See where im getting it.

So I have one question out of this...

1. Whats your thoughts on how we distribute our money between welfare and veteran affairs?
Vox

Pro

“Ok so i dont care what the program is called, any program that gives free money ( and thats what it is ) away to people that cheat the system is what i dont like... “

So your problem isn’t with welfare, it’s with people who are “cheating the system”? If money was going straight to people who were actually in need of it, would that be okay?

“I am all for giving money to people that need it. We put all this money intowelfare but look how we treat our veterans. “

We would treat our veterans better by never sending them to war in the first place.

“Well sir i hope you dont think that welfare is the only program out there that uses are tax money”

Of course not, tax money is largely used to pay interests on the government’s debts which use their citizens, and their children’s future productivity as collateral. A bit like how a farmer takes out a debt by promising part of the future productivity of his cow’s milk.

“Sir and i hope you dont think that welfare is the only program out there that gives free money to the people who again cheat the system.“

You can’t expect people not to try to take advantage of handouts, it would make less logical sense if people didn’t take advantage.

“Let me give ya something to think about. Whenever there is something that is harmful, whether it be in politics or something else. If that thing is removed or deleted from the system there will always be a replacement to take its place.”

I couldn’t agree more. If welfare is removed something will fill the gap, just as things were before the government started its welfare program.



“your thinking too much about it”
This is absolutely not an argument.


“if you skip rent then you are thrown out and if ya don't pay it ... you can possibly be prosecuted. If you skip out on taxes you WILL get prosecuted. See where im getting it.”
But you don’t get kicked out of the country if you don’t pay your taxes, you get locked in a cage. Renting a space is completely voluntary, but paying taxes is not. Furthermore, a legal battle with your renter would be a civil case, while a legal battle with the government would be a criminal case. You are seen as irresponsible if you don’t pay your rent, but you’re seen as a criminal if you don’t pay your taxes.



1. Whats your thoughts on how we distribute our money between welfare and veteran affairs?

The government is really good at hoovering up loads of tax payers money and throwing it in the general direction of a particular thing, but it’s not good at knowing what people need on a personal level and giving money in a direct and focused way to people who are really in need. You see examples of this in almost all aspects of government from schools teaching every kid the same thing, to repathing all of the roads in an area rather than just the specific road that has damage. It’s like using a sledge hammer to try to pound in a nail.

Welfare itself is not a problem, the problem is using the sweeping arm of the government to distribute it. Instead of welfare I again suggest non-profit organizations that work one on one with people. Instead of giving these people a paycheck for not working, I instead suggest giving them only essential supplies instead. Make sure they have food, water, hygienic supplies, and access to programs that help train and motivate them to start working. That would be welfare, what we have now is a corrupt government program called welfare that does exactly the opposite of what it ought.

Debate Round No. 3
Austyn1030

Con

Let me start off with round 4 by saying.. I appreciate your input and it is very good. I agree that this is not a argument and i'm sorry if I protruded that.

" If money was going straight to people who were actually in need of it, would that be okay? "
Yes by all means

" We would treat our veterans better by never sending them to war in the first place "
I'm just going to touch on this cause this could end up being another debate in the long run but if you don't have wars then you have tension. I am a true believe there will never be world peace. But the reason this country is so great and how we are free people is by the people that had to go to war. I don't like wars but I order to balance things out its gotta be done.

My Closing thoughts on this is that welfare doesn't have to be disbanded, AS long as the government can change the ways the distribute the money. Divide the Partakers from the freeloaders.

Thank you for debating with me
Vox

Pro

I originally chose to debate this topic, not because I am for the current government program called welfare but I am pro welfare. I think everyone can agree that giving money to people who actually need it is a good thing, and it’s important to realize that we shouldn’t bar all types of welfare just because the current government system is broken. Language and how we use it is deeply linked to our understanding of the world. It is important to call things by their proper names, which is why I use the terminology “government program called welfare” instead of just “welfare”. They really are two different things.

“I am a true believe there will never be world peace.”

The war issue is an important topic as well, I’m not going to cover it here but I do disagree with your notion that there can never be world peace.

“My Closing thoughts on this is that welfare doesn't have to be disbanded, AS long as the government can change the ways the distribute the money. Divide the Partakers from the freeloaders.”

I would also tend to agree with this statement, but I believe that welfare should be taken out of the government’s hands completely. Non-profits, charities, family, and friends will step in and help the ones who actually need it. The rest will just have to get jobs.

Thank you for bringing up this topic, it’s an important issue that needs to be resolved.

Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by SeanCEyler 3 years ago
SeanCEyler
I am new, so i cannot vote, but i'd vote for the contender.

The reason for my voting for the contender was, obviously because of his arguments, and the thought/insight into the topic. Clarity in stance is important, which is what the instigator did not clearly establish until the later rounds of the arguments. One thing that I thought was strange that was not mentioned, was the option of doing work for the government for receiving welfare, which is what other countries do, and it was turned down by Obama about a year and a half ago. Also, you could have delved into the topic of limited welfare, or scaling back welfare. Also, the repercussions of getting rid of welfare all together, and the poverty/crime that would happen because of it. Decent debate regardless, I hope you both learned something, and sharpened your debating skills.
Posted by Vox 3 years ago
Vox
"Anyone here want to come to the 21st century..."
Want to present an actual argument?
Posted by Bullish 3 years ago
Bullish
Anyone here want to come to the 21st century...
No votes have been placed for this debate.