The Instigator
Pink1234
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
bluesteel
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

What are the ten commandments and why should they be followed?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
bluesteel
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/28/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,612 times Debate No: 23910
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (15)
Votes (4)

 

Pink1234

Pro

The Ten Commandments are ten laws in the Bible that God gave to the nation of Israel shortly after the exodus from Egypt. The Ten Commandments are essentially a summary of the 613 commandments contained in the Old Testament Law. The first four commandments deal with our relationship with God. The last six commandments deal with our relationships with one another. The Ten Commandments are recorded in the Bible in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 and are as follows:

1) "You shall have no other gods before me." This command is against worshipping any god other than the one true God. All other gods are false gods.

2) "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments." This command is against making an idol, a visible representation of God. There is no image we can create that can accurately portray God. To make an idol to represent God is to worship a false god.

3) "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name." This is a command against taking the name of the Lord in vain. We are not to treat God's name lightly. We are to show reverence to God by only mentioning Him in respectful and honoring ways.

4) "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." This is a command to set aside the Sabbath (Saturday, the last day of the week) as a day of rest dedicated to the Lord.

5) "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you." This is a command to always treat one's parents with honor and respect.

6) "You shall not murder." This is a command against the premeditated murder of another human being.

7) "You shall not commit adultery." This is a command against have sexual relations with anyone other than one's spouse.

8) "You shall not steal." This is a command against taking anything that is not one's own, without the permission of the person to whom it belongs.

9) "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." This is a command prohibiting testifying against another person falsely. It is essentially a command against lying.

10) "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." This is a command against desiring anything that is not one's own. Coveting can lead to breaking one of the commandments listed above: murder, adultery, and theft. If it is wrong to do something, it is wrong to desire to do that same something.

Many people mistakenly look at the Ten Commandments as a set of rules that, if followed, will guarantee entrance into heaven after death. In contrast, the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to force people to realize that they cannot perfectly obey the Law (Romans 7:7-11), and are therefore in need of God's mercy and grace. Despite the claims of the rich young ruler in Matthew 19:16, no one can perfectly obey the Ten Commandments (Ecclesiastes 7:20). The Ten Commandments demonstrate that we have all sinned (Romans 3:23) and are therefore in need of God's mercy and grace, available only through faith in Jesus Christ.
bluesteel

Con

Thanks for the debate Pink.

==Burden of Proof==

To negate the resolution, I need only show that a single commandment should not be followed.

==God does not exist==

If God does not exist, there is no true justification for following the Ten Commandments because there is no penalty for breaking them. In the US, we follow the laws (such as those that prohibit theft) because there is a punishment for breaking the law. If God does not exist, no punishment exists for breaking the 10 Commandments. Thus, my opponent must win that God exists. Here are a few proofs that God does not exist.

---The Reverse Ontological Argument---

Using logic:

1. God is a being who necessarily exists and is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent.
2. Necessarily existent being are beings who exist in all possible worlds.
3. Anything that is not logically impossible is "possible."
4. It is possible that God does not exist, i.e. there is a possible world in which God does not exist.
5. If there is a possible world where God does not exist, then God cannot exist in all possible worlds.
6. God is not necessarily existent.
7. God does not exist.

---The Problem of Evil---

The Judeo-Christian God is defined as being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent.

1. An omnibenevolent being can perform only good acts.
2. Inflicting suffering is not a good act.
3. God inflicts suffering.
4. God is not omnibenevolent.
5. The Christian God does not exist.

==Exodus is a lie==

The 10 Commandments appear in the book of Exodus. If this book is proven to be a lie, it is deemed fictional. There is no legitimate reason to follow a work of fiction.

Teresa Watanabe writes in the LA Times:

"The truth is that virtually every modern archeologist who has investigated the story of the Exodus, with very few exceptions, agrees that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all . . .After a century of excavations trying to prove the ancient accounts true, archeologists say there is no conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt, were ever enslaved, ever wandered in the Sinai wilderness for 40 years or ever conquered the land of Canaan under Joshua's leadership. To the contrary, the prevailing view is that most of Joshua's fabled military campaigns never occurred--archeologists have uncovered ash layers and other signs of destruction at the relevant time at only one of the many battlegrounds mentioned in the Bible. Today, the prevailing theory is that Israel probably emerged peacefully out of Canaan--modern-day Lebanon, southern Syria, Jordan and the West Bank of Israel . . . 'Scholars have known these things for a long time, but we've broken the news very gently,' said William Dever, a professor of Near Eastern archeology and anthropology at the University of Arizona and one of America's preeminent archeologists. Dever's view is emblematic of a fundamental shift in archeology. Three decades ago as a Christian seminary student, he wrote a paper defending the Exodus and got an A, but 'no one would do that today,' he says. The old emphasis on trying to prove the Bible--often in excavations by amateur archeologists funded by religious groups--has given way to more objective professionals aiming to piece together the reality of ancient lifestyles. But the modern archeological consensus over the Exodus is just beginning to reach the public." http://articles.latimes.com...

This evidence says that the consensus among archaeologists is that Exodus is an utter fabrication. The exodus of the Jews from Egypt never happened, which means Moses never climbed a mountain and never brought down two tablets containing the 10 Commandments.

==Specific Commandments==

#1 and #2 - no worshipping others or creating idols

Christians break these Commandments all the time. They pray to Jesus instead of God. Jesus is a more revered figure than Jehovah.

In additions, many Christians pray to saints and make statues of saints, particularly the Virgin Mary (such the The Pieta). The Pieta is a Michelangelo statue that many people pray to at Vatican City: http://aparchedsoul.com...

#4: Obey the Sabbath

The 10 Commandments appear in the Old Testament and only Jews follow this particular commandment. On Friday night and Saturday, religious Jews refuse to do "work," which includes operating any type of machinery. Very few Christians obey this prescription.

If people in the US could not work on Saturdays, productivity would decline. Apple requires many of its workers to work Saturdays: http://www.nytimes.com...

#10 Do not Covet

Robert Reich in the book Aftershock discusses how the middle classes' desire for a better life has been the life-blood of the American economy. If we did not covet, we would have no motivation to improve ourselves. Coveting is not a bad thing. If everyone were satisfied with what he had, no one would work harder and strive to improve.

-Negated
Debate Round No. 1
Pink1234

Pro

Thanks to Con for his insight and his intelligent reasoning.
To win, yes, Con must prove one commandment that should not be followed.

=Burden of proof-
He also proposes that I must provide proof of God. This a fallacy as you can not disprove something because lack of evidence. Also you can not claim non-existance because the claimer can not provide proof when and how the objector commands.

=God does not exist-
My opponent asserted that God does not exist. I would like the proof of that bold statement!
My opponent also asserted that we have Laws of the land and by those laws are penalties for breaking them. He also seems to provide evidence that God does not punish Man for our breaking of His law. I would like that evidence.

=Reverse Ontological arguement:LOGIC-
My opponent also claims that using logic, God does not exist, well this goes both ways. Using logic God can exist, either which way you want to look at it.

=The problem of evil-
My opponent claims that God can not exist and therefore did not give the ten commandments to be followed. He states that Inflicting suffering is not a good act. When did God inflict punishment unjustly? My opponent tries to determine himself what is suffering in the eyes of God. When we know that American that goes to the enemy and provides secrets to hurt America he would executed for treason. Though when it comes to God, He is unjust to punish his creations for treason. Who then makes evil?

=Exodus is a lie- http://articles.latimes.com......,
This article makes the same claims as my opponent in =God does not exist. The article and my opponent leads one to think because there is no evidence that institutes at it didnt happen. This is a fallacy. You can not disprove something by lack of evidence and claim of such is just untrue.

#1=#2 no Gods or idols
Obviously my opponent has no grasp of the Bible and its meaning. As Christians today are serving the same God in the 10 commandments. Elohim in hebrew is singular and also plural forms of majesty. In Genesis 1:1, God gives himself a plural form, This is the same God as Jesus. Many Jews and Christians do worship false God and beliefs. Praying and worshipping saints and popes are abominations.

#4 Obey the Sabbath
We do not as a christian society view saturday as the sabbath and it is. I do, I reconize that. I can not speak for others.

#10 Do not Covet- Covetness leads to theft. I ask my opponent to provide proof that Coveting makes success and leads to ambition. Though I can not deny that people covet, christians and non-christians.

Thank you for my opponents arguement. In the following round I will rebuttal and provide reason why the ten commandments should be followed.
bluesteel

Con

Thanks Pink.

==Burden of proof==

My opponent claims it's a "fallacy" to ask that she accept the burden of proving God exists. However, the opposite is the fallacy - demanding negative proof. It's not my job to prove a negative, that God does not exist. My opponent's justification for following the 10 Commandments is that God exists. She must prove this. Or at the least, defend against my attacks, which she doesn't.

==Reverse Ontological Argument==

There are logical proofs of God's existence. However, it's my opponent's job as a debater to refute my proof of his non-existence and then offer her own proof of his existence. She doesn't do either.

==Problem of Evil==

Hurricane Katrina inflicted suffering. The Holocaust inflicted suffering. Chernobyl inflicted suffering. God caused all three to happen (since he's omnipotent, everything that happens must be caused by God), thus he cannot be omnibenevolent and thus the Christian God does not exist.

My opponent's treason example makes no sense. I'm not talking about Hell and God's punishments, I'm talking about suffering inflicted on random people here on Earth.

If God does not exist, my opponent has failed to provide a compelling reason to follow the 10 Commandments.

==Exodus is a fictional book==

My opponent merely attacks a straw man from the LA Times article, arguing against atheism. The LA Times article mentions that the scientific consensus among archaeologists is that the book of Exodus is a fictional account. If the book of Exodus, which is where the 10 Commandments come from, is a work of fiction, there is no more reason to follow its moral prescriptions than those found in Harry Potter or American Psycho.

#1

My opponent doesn't answer the fact that most Christians have elevated to Jesus to a status above God himself. Christians are more likely to pray to Jesus than to God. This violates the 1st Commandment, which was written before Jesus' time. Christianity itself is a violation of the 1st Commandment. Only religious Jews actually follow this particular commandment.

My opponent concedes that most Christians fail to follow this commandment in that they pray to saints.

#4

My opponent concedes that not a single Christian follows this Commandment. Yet her argument was that we should follow the Commandments to be good Christians. She also drops my productivity argument.

#10

I cited a famous economist from Berkeley to show that coveting and aspirations lead to success. Not everyone who wants what his neighbor has STEALS it from his neighbor. When television first came out, rather than steal their neighbor's televisions, Americans vowed to work hard enough to afford their own tv's. The Bible has a pessimistic view of human nature, that if we want what our neighbor has, we will steal it; it also assumes that economics is zero sum - that if my neighbor has a tv, I can't have one. This may have been true before the days of mass production.

Most people who steal do so to buy drugs. This has nothing to do with coveting what your neighbor has. The 10th Commandment doesn't solve for theft, but it would turn the American economy into a nation of paupers. No one would work if they desired nothing beyond the bare essentials. There's a reason there are higher order needs in Maslow's hierarchy.

-Negated
Debate Round No. 2
Pink1234

Pro

Pink1234 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Pink1234

Pro

Pink1234 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Pink1234

Pro

Pink1234 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dirkson 4 years ago
dirkson
Not sure why you posted that. I'm perfectly aware what contempt means.

And since you referenced your point, it's pretty easy to tell that you're quoting something in the long paragraphs, (Though quotation marks would help make it even clearer) so I actually have no objections to this!

I merely have objections to you passing off things as your own when they're not. Since you are a Christian and have commandments against lying, you should feel even stronger than I do about not passing off other' work as your own!

Confusedly,
-Dirk
Posted by Pink1234 4 years ago
Pink1234
Contempt is a secondary emotion (not among the original six emotions) and is a mix of the primary emotions disgust and anger.[1] The word originated in 1393, from the Latin word contemptus meaning "scorn." It is the past participle of contemnere and from com- intens. prefix + temnere "to slight, scorn." The origin is uncertain. Contemptuous appeared in 1529.[2]
Robert C. Solomon places contempt on the same continuum as resentment and anger, and he argues that the differences between the three is that resentment is directed toward a higher status individual; anger is directed toward an equal status individual; and contempt is directed toward a lower status individual.[3]

And yes...copy and past just for you "Dirk"

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Cheers, Pink1234
Posted by dirkson 4 years ago
dirkson
http://www.gotquestions.org...

Goodness, that looks familiar! Does that remind anyone of anything? Like Pink's opening round, maybe?

We had best stand back folks! We are clearly dealing with a master debater- She has mastered the use of both copy AND paste.

Impressed,
-Dirk
Posted by K.GKevinGeary 4 years ago
K.GKevinGeary
yes thats what im saying
Posted by Cody_Franklin 4 years ago
Cody_Franklin
God damnit, bluesteel.
Posted by Pink1234 4 years ago
Pink1234
even if one is proven that it should not be followed or one of the commandments, similiar to Pascal's wager, What does someone have to loose by following em?

One who follows the 10 commandments has nothing to lose!!
Posted by K.GKevinGeary 4 years ago
K.GKevinGeary
even if one is proven that it should not be followed or one of the commandments, similiar to Pascal's wager, What does someone have to loose by following em?
Posted by Cody_Franklin 4 years ago
Cody_Franklin
Alright. Post a comment to my profile when you've fixed the debate.
Posted by Pink1234 4 years ago
Pink1234
Cody_Franklin...I will except your conditions!
Posted by Cody_Franklin 4 years ago
Cody_Franklin
I have three conditions:

1. 4 rounds; 5 is excessive since you already have R1 args.
2. Voting period needs to be WAY longer, because vote volume on this site is terrible.
3. More than 24 hours to respond--I don't want to be penalized because I'm not at my computer for a day.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by airmax1227 4 years ago
airmax1227
Pink1234bluesteelTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by bossyburrito 4 years ago
bossyburrito
Pink1234bluesteelTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF and Con had better args anyway.
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 4 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
Pink1234bluesteelTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
Pink1234bluesteelTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit by Pro, though Con dismantled his arguments well before the forfeits.