The Instigator
Group_nice
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points

What is your oppinion on death penalty?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/2/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,037 times Debate No: 20827
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Group_nice

Con

Hi everybody who reads this!
We have made a group concerning our theme week. We have a project task to do, and it is about death penalty in the U.S.A. We want to know all about how you guys feel. Our group is against death penalty, but still we want to hear your opinions. How does the legalization of death penalty have an effect on your society in the U.S.A. Are you guys more satisfied about murderers getting what they "deserve" or are you guys just sad about it? Just write down everything you feel. And of course if you don't want to share then it is okay.
16kadams

Pro

Ok...odd way to start a debate.

C1: deterrent effect of the DP

DP= death penalty
LWOP= life without parole

Basic deterence theory is you prevent crimes by more costly retribution and punishment. (1) These theories have shaped the current criminal system. (1)
People measure pleasure vs pain/consequence. (2) more consequence may lead to you re-thinking the act, lowering the probability of you doing it. (2)

DP: deterence proof

Paul R Zimmermans study concluded each DP usage prevented future 14 murders. (3) (4) Another study concludes each DP usage prevented 5 lives from being ended. (3) (5) This study says 3 murders where prevented with DP usage. (3) (6) Slso this study concludes suspension of the DP lead to higher crime rates. (8) This study says each inmate executed saves 74 lives (9). Odd wasn't expecting this.

Historical deterence:

"In the 1800s, in English occupied India, there was one of the worst gangs of murdering thieves the world has ever known, the Indian hoodlum band known as the Thuggees. "

These people where notorious killers, here is how they where stopped:

"Between 1829 and 1848, the British managed to suppress the Thuggees by means of mass arrests and speedy executions" (9)

Yep arrest =====> speedy execution did the trick.

C2: The DP is moral

Constitution

Article 12
"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."

So it is a right to have them be punished.

Eye for an eye:

This concept is payback, you hit him we hit you. You shoot him we shoot you. You kill him, we lethal inject you. So you do something you get = punishment. (10) it is logical.

JJ. Rousseau's The Social Contract written in 1762, he says the following:

"Again, every rogue who criminously attacks social rights becomes, by his wrong, a rebel and a traitor to his fatherland. By contravening its laws, he ceases to be one of its citizens: he even wages war against it. In such circumstances, the State and he cannot both be saved: one or the other must perish. In killing the criminal, we destroy not so much a citizen as an enemy. The trial and judgements are proofs that he has broken the Social Contract, and so is no longer a member of the State."

C3: Few are executed wrongfully

� "Moreover, our judicial system takes extra precautions to be sure the innocent and their rights are protected.� Most likely an innocent person would not be executed). " (11)

Only 39 innocents have been wrongly executed. (12)

In 1975-2002 780 executions have occurred. (13)

This means 5%= wrongly executed.

But each DP saves 5 lives. So

789*5=3,900 lives saved. Then -39= 3861 lives saved.

So in all reality innocents being executed is rare and the DP saves more lives then not. Vote pro.

Sources:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...(psychology) (1)
http://www.umsl.edu... (2)
http://www.heritage.org... (3)
Paul R. Zimmerman, State Executions, Deterrence and the Incidence of Murder, 7 Journal of Applied Economics 163 (2004) [Zimmerman 2004 Study] (4)
�H. Naci Mocan, University of Colorado at Denver, and R. Kaj Gittings, Cornell University, Getting Off Death Row: Commuted Sentences and the Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment, 46 Journal of Law and Economics 453 (2003)� [Mocan/Gittings 2003 Study] (5)
Joanna M. Shepherd, Emory University, Deterrence versus Brutalization: Capital Punishment's Differing Impacts Among States, 104 Michigan Law Review 203 (2005) [Shepherd 2005 Study] (6)
Dale O. Cloninger and Roberto Marchesini, University of Houston-Clear Lake, Execution and Deterrence: A Quasi‑Controlled Group Experiment, 33 Applied Economics 569 (2001). (8)
http://www.npr.org... (9)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org... (10)
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com... (11)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org... (12)
http://deathpenalty.procon.org... (13)
Debate Round No. 1
Group_nice

Con

Thanks for all the information really good, but we just want to know how you feel about executions. Do you think that U.S.A got a better society after the legalization of the death penalty? And does it help on the crime in the U.S.A?
16kadams

Pro

Q. Did the US become a better society after DP legalization?

A. Yes, if you have a mass murderer he deserves whet he did. He is also likely to commit more crimes in jailing he is left alive, ending more lives. Also even when on LWOP you can get let out. There are many examples. (1)

Q. Did it help crime?

A. Yes, I already proved it Dettered crime. There is a distinct link beetween the death penalty and deterence of crime. (2)

�"The media is a bit Johnny-come-lately in recognizing all the research that has been done on the death penalty over the last decade, with nine of the 12 referenced academic studies by economists finding that the death penalty saves lives." - John Lott also as seen in (3)

�So yes it he's lowered crime.

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com... (1)
http://papers.ssrn.com... (2)
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com... (3)
Debate Round No. 2
Group_nice

Con

Good then, thanks for your answer. It really helps. But can we ask you why you think it's right to kill someone even though they are guilty? Because we don't think it's good to kill people, we know it can be really dangerous to keep some of them alive, but still there hasn't been good enough reasons to kill the guilty, or we don't think so.
16kadams

Pro

Q. Why is it right to execute?

Answer:

Eye for an eye:

This philosophy is if I injure you I get a equally just punishment. (1)

Now based on this it is fair to execute them.

The DP saves lives:

"According to roughly a dozen recent studies, executions save lives. For each inmate put to death, the studies say, 3 to 18 murders are prevented." (2)

Now this makes it just, if it saves lives then it actually has a

The moral argument for the DP:

"Once a man has initiated force against an innocent person, he has in effect declared that he does not live by the principle of individual rights. He does not wish to live among men as a rational being, but as a predator, to the detriment and destruction of all those around. Rights stem from man's nature as a rational being, and a man living irrationally has no rights. It is not only prudent for a society to destroy such a harmful animal, but it is an act of justice: treating a person according to how they act." (3)

These scum do not deserve rights, for the reasons above. Also a right cannot be a right if it infringes life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. These dudes infringed this therefore they do not deserve it.

Good? Vote pro.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org... (1)
http://www.nytimes.com... (2)
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com... (3)
Debate Round No. 3
Group_nice

Con

Group_nice forfeited this round.
16kadams

Pro

This wasn't a debate.. But give me conduct because of the FF. also sources for having them. :)
Debate Round No. 4
Group_nice

Con

Group_nice forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Group_nice 5 years ago
Group_nice
It is just concerning our project task, and we know it isn't right but we just posted this in different places so we could get as many answers as possible. Sorry guys :-)
Posted by innomen 5 years ago
innomen
Terrible way to initiate a debate.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I will submit an argument later
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 5 years ago
lannan13
Group_nice16kadamsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had great thought out responses and agruements while Con was 2 aweful rounds and 2 FF
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 5 years ago
Ron-Paul
Group_nice16kadamsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: 2 forfeits and 2 horrible rounds by con.