What makes someone a true Christian?
Debate Rounds (4)
Sparked from the forum topic 'Bible Translations' under 'Religion,' I decided to challenge 'bornofgod' to a debate on what makes someone a true believer. I am a Christian, but we both have different views on God's voice, as I have witnessed what my opponent (who I hope accepts this) says about who a Christian should/must be in order to be true to the faith and true to our Creator. I disagree with many things 'bornofgod' said on the forum topic, including these...
"If you're a true believer, you will read my testimonies and hear our Creator speak to your spirit."
"Christians have never understood the difference between the flesh and the spirit of man."
"I'm here to find God's believers who listen to His voice in my testimonies. You see, I was created as the invisible voice of God and have the mind of God to speak with."
"Very few of God's believers are Christians. Most of them are prostitutes, thieves, drug addicts, alcoholics, and people who have been rejected by the self righteous Christians in their communities."
1st Round I ask that my opponent explain these statements.
2nd Round, rebuttals for both of us.
3rd Round will be more rebuttals and the explaining of what each of us believes makes someone a true Christian.
4th Round rebuttals and conclusions.
Good luck, and
LET THE DEBATING BEGIN!
I've known our invisible Creator since December 7th, 1979, when He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", as I was getting ready to go out and get drunk for the weekend. This is the point of faith, which means the time that our Creator connects with one of His servants.
Noah, Abraham, Israel, Moses, Job, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. are some of the biblical names of God's servants who connected with our invisible Creator within His mind. The reason I say "His Mind", is because His mind is where we all exist as His consciousness. This is where ALL God's knowledge of the past, present and future exists in the form of invisible vibrations.
God's prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel and so forth did not get taught that they came from an invisible realm so whatever they did, spoke and write for our Creator was only to set up the last part of this age when God's saints would be used to testify to the invisible Word ( knowledge of God ) and learn who we are in the mind of our Creator. So us saints are the only one's who get to know our Creator on a personal level and end up writing, speaking and doing things for Him to learn who we are.
Christianity came out of God's plan called the beast. This can be read about in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. The beast was active soon after the flood that exposed the sun, moon, stars and planets. The plan was to use certain individual gentiles ( people who didn't know God at all ) and have them look into the sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots that they observed. This is how our Creator taught them building shapes and characters for their mathematics and written languages.
Our Creator had planned for the latest technology to be in place in the last days of this first age so He had to teach His people how to build starting with basic building blocks. The reason He had to build these objects through human hands is to use them as analogies to teach us saints about our invisible existence within His mind. Now we have the modern technology such as computers, microscopes, cinema, photography, telescopes, etc. to use as analogies to teach me, his last saint, about how He ( our invisible Creator ) created us as invisible vibrations, which is something physicists have been indirectly taught by Him in the recent past. Now physicists, cosmologists, etc. are talking about these invisible vibrations that no man has ever seen before.
Our Creator, through His plan called the beast, used Christianity to spread building techniques throughout the rest of the unknown world that the Roman Empire hadn't conquered as of the fourth century A.D. In order to build their false gods ( buildings built with human hands ), Christians went out looking for land to build them on because the known Roman Kingdom had control of all the land with it's kings ruling over God's people. Not only were Christians looking for land but also for minerals, wood and other materials to build their false gods with. These Christians killed, stole land and minerals and lied to the natives to get their way, completely going against the commandments of God. Christians were under the direct laws of the Vatican and Roman Catholic Church that set up rules contrary to the Laws of God.
As you can see, Christianity was NOT used by God to spread the Word of God that us saints can only speak. The Word of God is the Law of God where ALL God's people exist as invisible vibrations. This is the Word ( Law of God ) that us saints speak to find God's believers. This is the Word that the religious Jews rejected and caused them to find a way to kill all the saints. They became jealous of all the people who were listening to the gospel that God's saints were preaching to them.
These religious people, both Jews and gentiles, were called antichrists and false prophets by God's saints and they were telling God's believers not to get influenced by their false gospels that eventually were written into the new testament that the Roman governing body called the Vatican approved of. Thus, Christianity, filled with antichrists and false prophets who rejected the Word of God spoken by God's saints, produced the new testament that contained a few ideas from the stolen written and spoken words of God's saints mixed with religious ideas such as the Jewish tradition of water baptism, which has nothing to do with what us saints were here for. The Eucharist idea was another religious idea that Christianity promoted to all the new Christian converts along with false ideas such as the hell belief, triune gods, church hierarchy with bishops, cardinals, popes between God and man, spiritual gifts such as the gift of tongues, and many other false beliefs that had nothing to do with God's saints preaching the true gospel, which is actually a symbolic name for the voice of God, or the Word of the Lord.
The gospel ( voice of the Lord ) has nothing to do with a man named Jesus, his death and resurrection to forgive the sins of man. The gospel is what teaches us about the past, present and future and the deep meanings of the prophecies that none of God's prophets could understand, even though they wrote the prophecies for God. Only God's saints were used to read these prophecies so that God could interpret them and give us understanding of the future.
Christians believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the true gospels but these are actually the false gospels that the early saints were telling God's believers not to partake of. These false gospels have led every single Christian away from the Truth of who we really are. The Truth, then, is our invisible Creator and His invisible thoughts where we all exist as invisible vibrations. This invisible creation is the Word of God and those of us who speak from this invisible Kingdom of God are called His servant, the Holy Spirit, known as the Voice of the Lord, or the Word of the Lord. There are many other symbolic names for the invisible vibrations that we exist as such as the Heavenly Kingdom, Christ, Son of God, Zion, True Church of God, Church of Christ, Jacob, Judah, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life ( found in Revelation ), Light of men, Eternal Life, etc.
There are a few believers of God who called themselves Christians but they are called "true believers" by us saints who know the difference between antichrists and false prophets ( unbelieving Christians ) and God's chosen believers. So there's no such thing as a "true" Christian. It should be stated like this;
What makes someone a true "Believer"?
Now that you know the story about who God's saints are and His chosen believers who listen to the true gospel that us saints preach to them, will you call yourself a "true" Christian or a "true" Believer? I know for a fact that none of you aren't chosen saints because He only planned to have one saint in the last days just before He destroys this world and all of Christianity as He did with the other worldly kingdoms of the beast.
I have no idea what my opponent will tell you but be assured of this fact, he will have to lie about everything to cover up the fact that he has no idea who our invisible Creator is or who a "true" believer is. All he has to go by are words in a book called the Bible that was produced by antichrists and false prophets who didn't know our invisible Creator, either. It was very easy for these religious people to change all the original written words by God's prophets and saints who were all killed for their testimony to the "true" invisible Word of God. Here are a few prophecies to show you that God's servants ( saints and most prophets ) are killed for our testimonies;
16. Precious in the sight of thy Lord is the death of his saints.
1. O God, the heathen have come into thy inheritance; they have defiled they holy temple; they have laid Jerusalem in ruins.
2. They have given the bodies of thy servants to the birds of the air for food, the flesh of thy saints to the beasts of the earth.
3. They have poured out their blood like water round about Jerusalem, and there was none to bury them.
9: When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne;
10: they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?"
11: Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
I have no further information at this time. As you can see, only God can reveal information about His plan called the beast and about His saints and chosen believers.
God bless you,
"There's no such a thing as a "true" Christian or a "false" Christian because anyone who claims to be a Christian is totally deceived from our true existence, anyway. If they knew the Truth, they certainly wouldn't be calling themselves Christians." There's a lot of fishy things going on with your opening statement. Please, 'bornofgod,' explain how saying you are a Christian means you are deceived from your true existence; we need clarification. From the way I understand it, you think that being a Christian means we don't know our reality, or existence! First of all I believe that none of us has a complete body and mind that would say, without a trace of doubt, that they know our true existence or they know the true reason why we exist at all. We might be QUITE sure, but it would be a lie to say that all evidence in the world that we can possibly find, and everything at all, was totally pointing to one person's belief of our existence. My (personal) belief on our existence, as I'm sure is the same as my opponent's, is that God is our Creator and He made humankind for company and for some special spirits to love on. The reason I say spirits is because, though He may provide for some earthly things that our flesh needs, it is our spirit which He loves and we love with our spirits, back to Him. But I will not get side-tracked.) I believe that God created us, the world, and everything inside our habitat and He loves us all dearly no matter what. I believe that our purpose for existing, is to love God because He created us and "...first loved us."  My question is, how does calling ourselves Christians (little Christs) make us deceived of our existence? Also, what's your definition of 'Truth' (see my opponent's first sentence of this debate) with a capital 'T'?
You have, many of times, called our Creator invisible. I say, even though we cannot see Him any time we want to in any place (even though God says in the Bible that he can be in everyone's hearts at the same time, etc.), God is not always invisible. Just the fact that we are His creations is proof that He is visible. What's your proof that He's always invisible? As there is the Trinity, Jesus Christ was the one that was on earth, and He wasn't invisible.
"His mind is where we all exist as His consciousness." Does God have a consciousness? The definition of that word is 'the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.'  I think God IS the surroundings. He created the surroundings. And He is not One, but 3 in 1. I'm not saying He isn't aware or awake, and it is definitely intriguing, the way you put it, how WE are His consciousness, so I am simply saying that I don't think that is a good way to put it. "His mind," we do not know, because God is incomprehensible no matter what you think you know. (Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh!)
Then, later, you say that "...ALL God's knowledge of the past, present, and future exists in the form of invisible vibrations." This is one MAIN thing that you hold the burden of proof on. What are these invisible vibrations you speak of? I have never heard of them (in that wording) but would be happy for you to share.
God's saints, which we will argue a lot about, can be anybody in my opinion, but what matters is their morality and deeds. For Pete's sake, Santa Clause was originally a saint (Saint Nicholas). The very Bible does not have a good definition for 'saint,' and as I explained earlier, our only knowledge of "God's mind" is through the Bible so we do not know what He means by saints. However, we do know the Hebrew and Greek translations which seem to replicate the definition of the modern word, 'saint.' Saints did not originate at the time of Jesus Christ according to most people. A few words with the same sort of meaning:
HEBREW (Old Testament)
koe-desh meant sacred, holy, or dedicated
kaw-dosh meant sacred or holy
kaw-seed meant good or holy
GREEK (New Testament)
hag-ee-oes meant sacred, pure or blameless
"So us saints are the only one's who get to know our Creator on a personal level and end up writing, speaking and doing things for Him to learn who we are." You refer to 'us' as 'saints.' I'm assuming you meant people like Noah and Moses, such as you. So what's your occupation that's so good-deed-doing? Are you sacred and holy enough to be "better" than the rest of us? The Bible says many times that Jesus paid the price for all our sins by dying on the Cross, for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But it's not just about that, I know, because you're trying to tell me that only you, and evidently other special people who receive four words from God, can be evangelists and spread the gospel by writing, speaking, and "doing things for Him" (etc.).
I have heard of "The Beast."  It sounds like a code name for a secret operation, (which I've heard, it sort of is). But if this was God's plan for spreading Christianity I am going to have to ask some questions, such as...
...Why did God have a plan for spreading Christianity, but then centuries later, the religion became a new sort of concept and isn't the most supported religion?
...If Christianity is, indeed, a well-supported religion and the most well-known, is it REALLY only 'saints' and the beast plan that spread it or did other, "unordinary" people spread it as well?
...What about now? Are saints the only people that go out and spread the Gospel, and are they still the only people to actually speak the Word of God? (You said, " Christianity was NOT used by God to spread the Word of God that us saints can only speak.")
"The Word of God is the Law of God where ALL God's people exist as invisible vibrations." I don't understand this vibration concept. And it is not mentioned in the Bible, as far as I can tell, so where did you get the idea that we are invisible vibrations?
"These religious people, both Jews and gentiles, were called antichrists and false prophets..." Some places in the Bible, such as in 1 Thessalonians and Daniel, say that only one antichrist will come: peacefully and deceitfully to secretly destroy the world and take power. Other verses, such as in 1 John, say that many antichrists will arrive.  Please explain. You have the Burden of Proof.
I see what you are getting at. Many people in the past history have claimed they were Christians but were actually selfish money-keepers (Ananias and Sapphira), many claimed they were preaching the Gospel but were actually teaching lies or teaching so they would look good. And I see how this leads up to who is a true Christian. But according to English the word Christian means 'little Christ,' and that can be anyone who seeks Christ, tries to act like Him, and shares Christ with others. It is obvious that people can be evangelists and be the same Christians that are the best saints in history AND the same as the newest and most inexperienced Christians who haven't served for the Lord as memorably as others.
The Truth? The gospels are fake? Invisible thoughts where we all exist as invisible vibrations? As I try to grasp all this, there are some things I disagree with immediately but will need clarifications before I do such thing.
Basically you have summed it up and said that only the chosen are true believers. All can believe and evangelize. Your statement goes against the Bible but I guess you don't believe in what part of the Bible says, as you claim it could have easily been messed with by the religious people long ago. Thank-you for your time and information, it has been interesting.
As you can easily see, my opponent has no knowledge of God to tell anyone how God uses His prophets and saints to reveal who we are in Him. All he has is a Bible like all other Christians use to make them believe they know something after reading it. By using a few words in a different language that he stole from the internet to try impress others that he understands Hebrew, he still can't tell you what a saint is. In fact, not one Christian can tell you what a saint is because no Christian has ever been one.
God taught me everything in my native language called English because it's the only language I know and the only one I need to know to preach the true gospel, which is a symbolic word to describe the voice of the Lord, or word of the Lord.
Here's a past writing of mine that will help you understand that the voice of the Lord, word of the Lord, and gospel mean the same exact thing; http://www.debate.org...
Not one Christian understands that the gospel means the word of the Lord, or voice of the Lord. They think "gospel" means the life of Jesus and his death and resurrection. If that's true, then what gospel was Jesus preaching to find God's believers?
14: Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15: and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel."
Jesus was actually preaching the Word of God ( gospel ) to God's chosen believers who listened to the voice of the Lord and believed in Him, our invisible Creator who created the Word.
The Word of God is described in these two sets of scriptures. The Word is described as the LIGHT OF MEN and LIFE and things VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE are in him.
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: He was in the beginning with God;
3: all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
4: In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities – all things were created through him and for him.
17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Quantum physicists are saying that everything came from nothing, at least nothing as far as observed particles. They say particles can only be measured or observed. When not measured or observed, the turn back to WAVES. When physicists say WAVES, they are actually talking about invisible VIBRATIONS that they can't see. A wave-length of a vibration has a high pitch and a low pitch, which is necessary to make a bit of information, just like a 0 and a 1 in computer binary code. In fact, ONE WAVELENGTH could replace the 0 and a 1 in computer code to compute everything we observe in computer peripherals.
What physicists don't understand is that a wavelength of a vibration is the lowest form of information that exists and this information is God's language called the Word of God. The Word can be converted into all kinds of earthly languages that we can see, hear, and speak. We can draw and paint pictures which are languages that we can see. Even our bodily movements are an observed language. All these ways of communicating come from processed information called the Word of God, also known as the voice of the Lord, or the gospel that we saints preach.
Some of God's believers only need to see our bodily testimonies of the Word to believe in God's work. Other believers need to hear His voice spoken in a language they can understand such as the English language that I speak. A few believers need to observe both body and spoken language in a language they understand for many hours before they trust this information to be coming from the voice of the Lord.
Most Christians cannot hear the voice of the Lord ( gospel ) that I preach to them. They reject His voice because they don't believe that Gods speaks through an illusion called a flesh today. They believe their Bible is the last testaments of God's saints and prophets. This means they believe that God can't speak anymore. Doesn't this limit God to their way of thinking? God didn't need man's help to establish His creation or illusions to give us life. Here's some scripture to show you this fact;
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
6: By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all their host by the breath of his mouth.
0: A Psalm of David.
4: The voice of the LORD is powerful, the voice of the LORD is full of majesty.
5: The voice of the LORD breaks the cedars, the LORD breaks the cedars of Lebanon.
6: He makes Lebanon to skip like a calf, and Si'rion like a young wild ox.
7: The voice of the LORD flashes forth flames of fire.
8: The voice of the LORD shakes the wilderness, the LORD shakes the wilderness of Kadesh.
9: The voice of the LORD makes the oaks to whirl, and strips the forests bare; and in his temple all cry, "Glory!"
Christians who believe they hear God's voice while reading the Bible are totally deceived. The true voice of the Lord is heard directly by us saints and prophets who speak His voice for Him to His chosen believers. Here are a few scriptures to show you that God chooses His saints, prophets and believers that He speaks to and through in the gospel they preach.
I Corinthians 1:
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
The elect in this scripture are the saints, prophets and chosen believers who listen to the gospel that us saints preach to them. None of these prophecies or scriptures show us that God's chosen people are called Christians. This means that Christians are imposters who believe they are saints or chosen believers by reading words in the Bible. That's because they believed that the Bible was the Word of God, not the Word of God that's described in all these scriptures and prophecies that I've shared in this forum. No where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the Word of God. However, in the Bible, it shows that saints read the written scriptures ( prophecies ) and used them in their testimonies of the gospel they preached. They only quoted a few prophecies as a back up to their spoken testimonies, kind of like having another witness to back up what they're saying.
My opponent has nothing to offer you to help you understand these symbolic names and their deeper meanings that only God's saints understand. Believers don't understand these deeper meanings, either, until they are taught by God through the gospel that the saints speaks to them. Most Christians reject the true gospel that I speak to them. The Christians who do listen to the gospel are not "true Christians". They are true chosen believers of God.
God bless you,
"I know for a fact that none of you aren't chosen saints because He only planned to have one saint in the last days." What is the scriptural reference? Are you saying that you're the only saint left?
"As you can easily see, my opponent has no knowledge of God to tell anyone how God uses His prophets and saints to reveal who we are in Him." Please stop talking about it and just tell me, what IS the knowledge of God--and how come you're so confident you know what it is? God is infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable than us--even us "saints"--and no matter what we do to study the Bible, all of God's knowledge of the past, present, and future will most likely not be revealed to us. This reminds me of the little lie Satan told Adam and Eve, way back when all was perfect and there was only the first humans. And then the Devil (in the form of a snake) told those first humans that if they bite the apple, they will have all the knowledge of God and they will be like Him. Wherever you, my friend, got the idea that God's Word is ALL of God's knowledge, the idea is wrong and must've been gotten from an unsure source and can't be proven. The Bible itself says that we cannot know God's heart or thoughts, therefore your claim is wrong. 
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
'My people are fools; they do not know me.'
John 1:18 says something along the lines of 'God has made himself known through the Word of God.' But this does not mean that the Bible is our way to learn God's mind! 
"In fact, not one Christian can tell you what a saint is because no Christian has ever been one." So you are not a Christian?
From the forum post which you gave a link to, you wrote this: "The Word contains ALL of God's invisible knowledge where the past, present and future exist." What I've been saying is, God did not even WRITE the Bible (although it is obvious that He inspired it). Most of the stories, songs, and journal entries which make up the Bible are historic, but it does not make up the stories of the past, present and future. That would be wrong because the Bible never changes, but time does change so saying it contains the present and then saying the same thing for the next few centuries wouldn't work. Besides, unless you can find an acronym or code that is hidden in the Book of Psalms, that book is only one of worship to the Father not "God's invisible knowledge" and certainly not ALL of God's knowledge, as you said. Also, note that I believe we can all know God personally by seeking His Word, worshipping and talking to Him, and by doing good for His sake. But the thought that some can "know God's mind" is quite absurd and there is no back-up evidence.
You have good rhetoric, but only vague ideas to back up said rhetoric.
"Not one Christian understands that the gospel means the word of the Lord, or voice of the Lord." I do. I also believe the whole Bible is the Word of the Lord. I believe that the Word IS God. Your statement is refuted.
I don't know what 1 Colossians 1 is supposed to prove to me. I'm gathering that your saying 'invisible vibrations' is a way of saying 'evidence of God,' and that your saying 'voice of the Lord' is a.k.a. 'processed info.' These terms I totally disagree with and are leading me to thinking you are a bit wacko (weird is good, though!). Another thing I've gathered, so to make things easier to understand for the readers: invisible vibrations ARE the gospel, according to my opponent. I have an important question to ask bornofgod. What do you think of speaking in tongues of Men and Angels? Is this a language of the voice of the Lord, just as invisible vibrations is? I have experienced people speaking in Tongues but do not know what to think of it.
"What physicists don't understand is that a wavelength of a vibration is the lowest form of information that exists and this information is God's language called the Word of God." Where on earth (excuse me) did you figure this, and how and why did you decide to believe this?! There is nothing in the Bible that says "The Word can be converted into all kinds of earthy languages that we can see, hear, and speak." And there is no proof that wavelengths of a vibration are actually a form of the Word of God, and there is no reason why it should be.
My opponent talking of hearing the voice of the Lord (which, apparently, is the gospel): "They reject His voice because they don't believe that Gods speaks through an illusion called a flesh today. They believe their Bible is the last testaments of God's saints and prophets." Now, I believe in prophets. I have met one, his name is Alan Ross  who can tell people's "destinies" and pray for the Holy Spirit to come down and fill people with peace. But your understanding of saints are overwhelmingly discordant. Flesh is an illusion? I believe that flesh can show (the gospel), but the words he preaches are spoken by the spirit--not the flesh.
"God didn't need man's help to establish His creation or illusions to give us life." I agree. Acts 17 and Psalm 33 give good points. But the whole REASON God created us has been a mystery...even King David wondered (see Psalm 8:3-4)...for a long time. The Bible eventually explains that God already had company (Genesis says 'Let us make man in OUR image'), and despite his not needing us, He created us because of His great love for us (Jeremiah 31:3). Yes, God loved us before he even created us. It's impossible to get our heads around that idea, but it's true; that's what "everlasting" love means.  God created us to fulfill his eternal plan. I could write pages and pages about this, but suffice it to say that God, in his infinite wisdom, chose to make us a part of his eternal plan. So I agree, in a sense.
"Christians who believe they hear God's voice while reading the Bible are totally deceived. The true voice of the Lord is heard directly by us saints and prophets who speak His voice for Him to His chosen believers. " Ok, that is complete nonsense. Though God may speak to saints and prophets regularly and--perhaps more--that doesn't indicate that us "normal" people can't hear God's voice, too. Some of us can easily hear His words through prayer and meditating on the Bible. 1 Corinthians 1 proves nothing. Also, it is obvious that the Bible doesn't say anything about saints period.
"The elect in this scripture--" (1 Corinthians) "--are the saints, prophets and chosen believers who listen to the gospel that us saints preach to them." There is no evidence upon which you say. Besides, what about missionaries, who preach the Good News to people who otherwise wouldn't have ever heard it, yet they don't call themselves saints or prophets? The people they speak to are still saved. These missionaries aren't doing God's will, by converting people into Christianity?
"No where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the Word of God." The term "revelation" simply means that God communicated to mankind what He is like and how we can have a right relationship with Him. These are things that we could not have known had God not divinely revealed them to us in the Bible. The question we must ask ourselves is how can we know that the Bible is the Word of God and not just a good book? What is unique about the Bible that sets it apart from all other religious books ever written? Is there any evidence that the Bible is truly God"s Word? And you are wrong, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 
"Believers don't understand these deeper meanings, either, until they are taught by God through the gospel that the saints speaks to them. Most Christians reject the true gospel that I speak to them. The Christians who do listen to the gospel are not "true Christians". They are true chosen believers of God." I ask you these things: what do you think of the Beast plan in Daniel/Revelation, and what then is a true Believer--who's not chosen--if there is such a thing? Couldn't there be "Believers" who listen to what the saints tell you? I've never listened to a "saint" in my life: only my preacher at church. I believe in what He says, but more so I believe in 1) and Bible, and 2) Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only one who can save us and make people be born again.
I await your response and hope you are taking these as serious questions and rebuttals.
This language of God has many symbolic names to it such as the Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Christ, Son of God, Voice of God, Word of God, Voice of the Lord, Voice of the Lord, Breath of Life, Eternal Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life, Messiah, Holy Spirit, Jacob, Judah, Zion, Kingdom of the Spirit, Spiritual Kingdom, etc.
If you don't understand the deeper meanings of the names used in the Bible, you will never understand who you are in God. These deeper meanings can only be taught directly by our Creator through His Voice, which is my created existence within His mind.
I will try help my opponent understand some of this knowledge by using his arguments and teaching him the correct meanings that ALL God's saints understood. A saint is NOT a Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. It's an illusion ( flesh ) that God uses to testify to the invisible Word, which I've already informed you is our true created existence as invisible vibrations. These vibrations are God's language which has to be converted into languages that we created people can understand. Since we can't see these vibrations, it would be impossible for us to know His language unless it's translated ( converted ) into ways we can understand who we are in His mind.
"I am not the most educated person in this subject, but I am smarter than you might think when it comes to the Bible. And though I got those Hebrew words off the Internet I did so only because I wanted more research, and since the words/definitions are true, why does it matter where I got it from? You missed the whole point anyways: that no one knows God's way of calling someone a saint. The Bible does not say what a saint is, though it has some Hebrew words that resemble the word. I wish you wouldn't attack my knowledge and instead just rebut what you think I say is wrong. And I ask you, who is a "true" saint? Because so far you have only made me sound dumb by telling everyone...I...don't know what a saint is."
I can easily see you weren't educated directly by our Creator because of your lack of knowledge to know who you are in God or what a saint is. This is not an attack on my opponent's intelligence because for a young person, I can see God has given him plenty of it, but not in the area of God's knowledge that only us saints and some of His believers possess. I've met a few believers who have been taught some wisdom but not the whole package like God's servant, the Word of God, possesses.
The Word of God is NOT the Bible but some of the information in the Bible came from the Word of God that us saints and prophets testify to. In fact, the original writings by us saints and prophets are all given to us to write by God putting words in His mind in the language we understand. 'The rest of the Bible consists of religious ideas from God's plan called the beast, which I have written about in the first part of this debate. These religious ideas have kept ALL Christians from learning who they are in God. Some Christians actually believe they become saints by reading the words in the Bible and then use the scriptures as if they're speaking for God. We saints know these Christians are plagiarizing our written testimonies and using them for their own purpose to make a living off of them.
"Please stop talking about it and just tell me, what IS the knowledge of God--and how come you're so confident you know what it is? God is infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable than us--even us "saints"--and no matter what we do to study the Bible, all of God's knowledge of the past, present, and future will most likely not be revealed to us. This reminds me of the little lie Satan told Adam and Eve, way back when all was perfect and there was only the first humans. And then the Devil (in the form of a snake) told those first humans that if they bite the apple, they will have all the knowledge of God and they will be like Him. Wherever you, my friend, got the idea that God's Word is ALL of God's knowledge, the idea is wrong and must've been gotten from an unsure source and can't be proven. The Bible itself says that we cannot know God's heart or thoughts, therefore your claim is wrong."
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.
My people are fools; they do not know me.'
John 1:18 says something along the lines of 'God has made himself known through the Word of God.' But this does not mean that the Bible is our way to learn God's mind! 
I am very confident to testify to the knowledge of God, also known as the Word of the Lord, Word of God, etc. That's because I know I was created as His voice, also known as the Word of the Lord. Only us saints and prophets were created to write and speak for our invisible Creator. This is why Christians don't understand that the Bible is NOT the Word of God.
Believers were made to listen to the gospel ( voice of the Lord ) while we're preaching in the streets for 42 months until we're killed for our testimonies. Christians don't know that we saints get killed after testifying to the Word of God for 1260 days ( 42 months ). Here's the prophecies to show you that I will be killed 42 months from the time I started preaching the true gospel on July 24th, 2011. This means I'll be killed in mid-January of 2015.
1: Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told: "Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there,
2: but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months.
3: And I will grant my two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
4: These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth.
5: And if any one would harm them, fire pours out from their mouth and consumes their foes; if any one would harm them, thus he is doomed to be killed.
6: They have power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
7: And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will make war upon them and conquer them and kill them.
If you read this article, you will see how dry it's been in Campbell, CA and the surrounding area for the past three years since I started testifying to the Word of God on July 24th, 2011.
Christians don't understand this prophecy about us saints preaching the gospel for 42 months until we're killed by God's people who are influenced by the beast. The people who will be responsible for killing the body that's writing this particular sentence next January are Christians from the community who hate my testimonies. Christians at Bethel Church tried to stop my testimony the very first day I started by calling the San Jose police. I was standing out on a public sidewalk near a driveway with a message written on a whiteboard. They didn't like hearing the written testimony that God had me write on the whiteboard,
"So you are not a Christian?"
No, I am not a Christian. I am the voice of the Lord and the body that's writing this sentence is forced to listen to Me and our Creator who created Me.
"From the forum post which you gave a link to, you wrote this: "The Word contains ALL of God's invisible knowledge where the past, present and future exist." What I've been saying is, God did not even WRITE the Bible (although it is obvious that He inspired it). Most of the stories, songs, and journal entries which make up the Bible are historic, but it does not make up the stories of the past, present and future. That would be wrong because the Bible never changes, but time does change so saying it contains the present and then saying the same thing for the next few centuries wouldn't work. Besides, unless you can find an acronym or code that is hidden in the Book of Psalms, that book is only one of worship to the Father not "God's invisible knowledge" and certainly not ALL of God's knowledge, as you said. Also, note that I believe we can all know God personally by seeking His Word, worshipping and talking to Him, and by doing good for His sake. But the thought that some can "know God's mind" is quite absurd and there is no back-up evidence.
You have good rhetoric, but only vague ideas to back up said rhetoric."
Why are you trying to flatter me and reject the voice of God at the same time?
I'm about out of character space set by the opponent so I'll end this argument for now.
Have a great day in My mind,
The amount of confident arrogance you have is astounding. And it is actually quite annoying to keep hearing that 'only saints' can do this, and that the knowledge of God is only given to the saints, who then tell it to us (which rarely happens). Some of your statements are not only annoying, but also crazy-sounding and wacky. Don't get me wrong, some of your stuff is obviously fine, but saying that "the world we perceive from each individual created "being" is only an illusion that isn't our true reality" goes against God's way (we can know some of God's way using the Bible which is God's Word), and is completely fraudulent by today's standards. That makes you seem dishonorable, and that is not what you want if you're life is trying to teach the "Truth."
"If you don't understand the deeper meanings of the names used in the Bible, you will never understand who you are in God."
"Spoken words are different than written words. Books can be torn apart and influenced by people's ideas, much like the Bible."
Do you see where you contradicted yourself? Also, there are many people (including me) who have a relationship with the same God you and I are debating about, but everything is more tight, and confident when you believe that God created us out of CREATIVITY, not as part of his "dream" or something. See this guy, by the name of Todd White:
You say: "I will try help my opponent understand some of this knowledge by using his arguments and teaching him the correct meanings that ALL God's saints understood. A saint is NOT a Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. It's an illusion ( flesh ) that God uses to testify to the invisible Word..." First, who are God's saints? Do you know any "fellow" saints that share the same knowledge as you (and God)? How do you know that God is the one "giving you knowledge?" Have you ever considered how the "voice of the Lord," which comes to you a lot evidently, could easily just be ideas from your mind and you only interpret them as coming from a Higher Deity, like our Creator? The things you say are unique but you just can't prove that they are true or really from God. Unless you can tell me one "saint" who has thought of our Creator and minds the same way you do. If you can name a few, that would be quite amazing and I would regard your preaching with higher respect. But until then, nothing you say is proven to be from God. God's very Book, the Word, is where you get me lost in confusion because you keep quoting it but then later saying that only saints have the knowledge of God and no Christians can get it, even through the Bible (though the Bible gives a lot of answers about our Creator).
"I can easily see you weren't educated directly by our Creator because of your lack of knowledge to know who you are in God or what a saint is. This is not an attack on my opponent's intelligence because for a young person, I can see God has given him plenty of it, but not in the area of God's knowledge that only us saints and some of His believers possess."
What is your proof that God is the one speaking to you? By the way I am a girl and thirteen years old, but that doesn't matter. I know that God is our Creator. But He is not the one that "sends" information in to my brain, there's a thing called school and the Internet and I get my "knowledge" from there, and from the Bible! You weren't educated by our Creator directly either. I know this because you have not yet seen Him face-to-face.
It is quite hard to keep up with what you are saying, but I do know that you are saying that the Bible is NOT the Word of God. For Pete's sake, I can think of saints who have called it that! Paul, for example, actually knew he was writing the Word of God; he was a saint.
Then I ask you what the knowledge of God is and you give the same sort of Bible verses I gave, and again I do not see what the verses prove (in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and John) How come you "know" God's mind when you are a foolish person, just as Jeremiah says? I later see that your definition of "Word of the Lord" is the preaching of "saints," like you call yourself here:
"I know I was created as His voice, also known as the Word of the Lord." Might I ask you, who is your family and are they knowledgeable of you being a "chosen saint"? Do they agree with it?!
"This is why Christians don't understand that the Bible is NOT the Word of God." Why would God want to fool us like that, if God is really all-loving and caring for all of us? And how do you know that the Bible isn't the Word of God?
"This means I'll be killed in mid-January of 2015." Alright, I'll be waiting. Make sure it's not suicide.
"Believers were made to listen to the gospel ( voice of the Lord )..." Question, wouldn't it be that "saints" are the "voice of the Lord," and that the Bible is the Word of God/Word of the Lord? It makes more sense, and an all-knowing God wouldn't let us all roam around, ignorantly and happy like you think we do, because He created us for a reason: out of love.
"If you read this article, you will see how dry it's been in Campbell, CA and the surrounding area for the past three years since I started testifying to the Word of God on July 24th, 2011." So in CA a prophesy is being fulfilled? Things feel fishy to me here, for example the lack of evidence that you actually hear God's word, not just your own voices in your head. How come the prophesies happen to you, but no other saints?
"No, I am not a Christian. I am the voice of the Lord and the body that's writing this sentence is forced to listen to Me and our Creator who created Me." That is Christian. You are acting and being a literal LITTLE CHRIST. Unless you think Christ isn't real. And I'm telling you, the Trinity is real. Have you ever gone to a Protestant, modern church? If you preached there, nobody would understand you, but also they wouldn't believe you. The faith and trust and relationship with Jesus of some people I know is too strong to be shaken.
I'm telling you, God is more than you think. We are real. Until you can give me examples of other, modern, saints like you who have fulfilled prophesies, preached the same things you do, and died 42 months after they were born again, I will doubt most of the things you say.
But thank you for your time, and I look forward to the last round.
The Word of God is a symbolic expression for invisible vibrations, which is our true created existence. These vibrations are known by quantum physicists but even they don't understand that they are God's invisible language that have to be processed into quantum waves of information that give us an observable world of illusions to experience. This is called life and life will continue forever as God has promised His people in His prophecies that only us saints can understand.
God's chosen believers are people who listen to us saints and learn about how God created us. If they were designed by God to keep listening to us, some of them will be enlightened with much more knowledge that they were indirectly taught by our invisible Creator. Most of God's believers won't be enlightened during this age so they will perish without learning everything that us saints were taught.
My opponent has very limited biblical knowledge, mostly from the new testament that was produced by antichrists and false prophets who had NO knowledge of God. They used stolen writings and spoken words from God's saints to start the false religion of Christianity, which has nothing to do with us saints. We saints are taught that Christianity is the symbolic feet of iron and clay found in the prophecies of Daniel. If you read Daniel 2: 36-45, you will see that the feet of iron and clay came out of the fourth kingdom, which is the Roman Empire. The feet of iron represents the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church which is still the dominate religious force on this planet today. The feet of clay represents the Protestant Christian churches that have broken up into thousands of different denominations. The word "clay" was used because when struck on a rock, clay breaks into many pieces. When iron is struck on a rock, it most likely won't break.
All God's prophecies are written in heavy symbolic form that only God can interpret, yet, millions of Christians believe the Bible can interpret itself, which is a total lie. The reason it cannot interpret itself is because the Bible can't talk. It's Christians who do the speaking for the Bible they read and Christians are totally deceived from the knowledge of God that us saints possess. Without this knowledge of God that God teaches us saints, Christians can't interpret the prophecies. This is why there are so many different denominations and religions that have formed since Luther, Calvin, Swingli and other reformers started the Protestant churches. These men did not know our Creator but they weren't satisfied with the laws of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church. It wasn't until the corrupt writings in the Bible were on display in the libraries that these men started reading the Bible for themselves. Before this, the scriptures were not allowed to be read by any of God's people other than the Catholic priests and the Vatican boys such as the Pope, bishops, cardinals, etc.
It was very easy for the Vatican to lie to their Christians without them reading the Bible for themselves. Now that the Bible is in the hands of anyone who wants to read it, they're all deceived by the new testament that was NOT written and produced by God's servant, the Word of God, through the work of the prophets and saints. Christians are antichrists and false prophets, not God's saints and prophets. However, there are a few of God's chosen believers here in Campbell who claimed to be Christians when they met me on the streets. Once I preached the gospel to these believers, they learned that Christianity is a false religion that came out of the beast. I tell these believers to call themselves God's chosen believers instead of calling themselves Christians because Christianity is NOT the way to the Truth. In fact, Christianity has led more people away from the Truth than any other religion on earth.
Any of you people who are reading my posts and are confused by what God has spoken through my testimonies, it was meant to be. That's because you are not hearing the voice of the Lord or obeying His commandments. Here's a prophecy that shows what happens to God's people who don't listen to His voice or obey His commandments;
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
16: Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
17: Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough.
18: cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
19: Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20: "the Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and frustration, in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly, on account of the evil of your doings, because you have forsaken me.
21: The Lord will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22: The Lord will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation, and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until your perish.
23: And the heavens over your head shall be brass, and the earth under you shall be iron.
24: The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down upon you until you are destroyed.
If you don't listen to the voice of the Lord, which is my created existence, you will be cursed in this world and die without knowing who you are in Him. God's chosen believers who listen and learn about eternal life, will die understanding that death is only an illusion. They will know that they will be given new bodies to experience life with and never know death in Paradise. None of us will remember living in this first age and this is prophecy that was written long before us saints came into this world. Here's the prophecy to show you that none of us will remember living in this first age;
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
This first age was only created by God to reveal Himself and let us know who we are within His mind as His thoughts. We had to learn that this is all a dream and nothing to be afraid of. Those who fear the things of this world do not fear our Creator and learn that this world is NOT real. Those of us saints and prophets who feared our Creator because of His power to put our flesh to the ground at will, are the only one's who were given faith. Because of our faith, God used us to testify in writing and speaking about the past, present and future, which is how God taught us who we are in Him. All the original scriptures came from these written and spoken testimonies by us.
My opponent keeps asking me what a saint is. If you don't understand what a saint is by reading my testimonies in this forum, then you weren't meant to understand who I AM, your Creator, during this first age.
I AM the Truth, the Way and Everlasting Life,
God bless My believers who hear My voice,
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by WillRiley 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: bornofgod apparently believes that he is some sort of "saint" or something, that only "Us saints and prophets" can connect with God. This is absurd. Also, he says that anyone who claims to be a Christian is not. That is also absurd. Christian is a follower of Christ (Hence 'Christ'ian ) Conduct point to Pro for Con's remarks about Pro being to young to understand. I would say that what bornofgod is representing is not Christianity at all, but is almost... cult-like.
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