The Instigator
micahwood50
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
socialpinko
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

What would happen if Pinocchio said "My nose will now grow"?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 909 times Debate No: 22095
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

micahwood50

Pro

What would happen if Pinocchio said "My nose will now grow"?

Let's say that his nose will either grow or not, instead of other stuffs like head explodes or universe collapses.

I, Pro, will argue that his nose will grow and Con will argue that his nose won't.

The first round is for acceptance.
socialpinko

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
micahwood50

Pro

First, I would like to thank my opponent for accept this debate.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

"The train will arrive at 10 am" is not a lie if the expectation is that it will arrive at 10 am, but it does not.

Presumptions of future events can be neither lie nor truth. If Pinocchio presumed his nose would grow, then he presumed he told a lie just previous to that statement.

If his presumption of having told a lie turns out to be true, his nose will grow. If what he said turns out to be a truth (unknown by him as a truth) his nose will not grow.

If he made no prior statement AND IF it requires a prior lie to make his nose grow, then the statement is a lie and his nose will grow.
socialpinko

Con

Summary of my opponent's argument

Whether Pinnochio's nose grows depends on the previous statement to his saying that "My nose will now grow." It is from the previous statement that the apparent paradox arises. If he is telling the truth then he is not and if he is not than he is. However, if Pinnochio made no prior statement to the statement in question, than there is no reason for why his nose would grow and thus his statement is a lie, causing his nose to grow.

Refutation

While interesting, my opponent's argument does not resolve the apparent paradox from the statement that his nose will now grow. For if it does turn out to grow than his statement would have in actuality been the truth, meaning his nose could not have grown. We can in probability assume that whatever causes Pinocchio's nose to grow includes a method of determining whether he is lying or not since his nose only appears to grow when he actually lies. Therefore it seems unlikely that it could be tricked by the mere re-stating of the paradox in different form. My opponent's argument does not pose an answer to the paradox and therefore proves insufficient.

Why Pinocchio's nose would not grow

Premise 1: Pinocchio's nose only grows when he tells a lie.

This is in the definition of the character Pinocchio which my opponent and I are describing. If he wishes to contest this characteristic of Pinocchio he may link a source which proves that either Pinocchio's nose does not grow when he lies or that some other criterion is in place to make his nose grow. But for the sake of this debate we can assume that the criterion for Pinocchio's nose growing is lying and lying only.

Premise 2: Pinocchio does not possess the cognitive ability to understand the philosophical paradox induced through the statement in question.

A mere outlining of the stories of which Pinocchio was a part shows that he is not a particularly bright boy, much less capable of understanding the logical paradox arising from his unique nasal ability. All knowledge we have of this fictional character (whether through the original stories or from the two movie adaptations) shows that he has the mind of a child. Therefore, any attempt to explain the paradoxical conclusion stemming from his telling lies or not would fall on deaf ears.

Conclusion 1: Therefore, Pinocchio lacks the ability to willfully attempt to deceive through the statement in question.

Lying can be defined as willing deceit. Just defining lying as telling an untruth would not be sufficient in defining the word. Consider the role that intent plays in telling a lie. Is it a lie for me to say that at this very moment Barack Obama is wearing black boxers? Obviously it could only be a lie if I knew that he was not but was attempting to deceive someone into believing it anyways. But since I have no knowledge of what kind of undergarments Barack Obama wears, I do not possess the ability to lie about them. The same applies to Pinocchio and his inability to realize the implications of his statement.

Conclusion 2: Pinocchio's nose would not grow.
Debate Round No. 2
micahwood50

Pro

micahwood50 forfeited this round.
socialpinko

Con

socialpinko forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
Lol. I love the copycat in this debate. I'm following this.
Posted by socialpinko 4 years ago
socialpinko
This is for you Kohai.
Posted by micahwood50 4 years ago
micahwood50
Sure, you can.
Posted by socialpinko 4 years ago
socialpinko
Can I take this?
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