When people go to hell they don't stay there for eternity
Debate Rounds (4)
I will be arguing that hell doesn't exist, otherwise I accept.
John: Do you think this is a subject that really needs to be dark and somber or is there some good news in this?
Gary: Well, there's a lot of good news when you look at it from the biblical perspective. If you're not looking at it from the Bible, it can be very depressing.
John: I've met people, and I'm sure you have, too, that find the subject depressing. Let me tell you about one lady I met, her name is Mary Ellen. As I met Mary Ellen for the first time, I could tell that there was something about her that was just - well, it was a little different. I'll tell you why.
Her hair was styled differently, the makeup she was wearing, it was just different. She was wearing jewelry that was a little different; I guess is the word I'm going to use. And, again, just the way she was dressed, was all a little bit different. And so I talked to her a little bit more and we got to talking about our belief in God.
And, she said to me, "You know, John, I don't go to church any more." Then she said, "Well, I sort of do." I wanted to learn more, obviously. She told me that, as a child, she was raised in a hellfire and brimstone spitting church, she named the denomination, which I don't need to do now. She told me that every Sunday, the preacher would talk about hellfire and, if you weren't saved, you would burn forever and ever and ever and even little babies would burn forever.
And Mary Ellen said to me, she said, "John, I got to the point where I decided that if that's what God is like, I'd be better off without Him." She turned her back on Jesus; she turned her back on Christianity; she became a practicing witch, which explained the funny way she was dressed, the jewelry and the makeup. Mary Ellen found something about this topic so depressing and dark that it drove her, many people have had this experience, drove her right out of the doors of the church and she has never been back.
Gary: I've met several people like that. In fact, one of the greatest atheists or agnostics to ever live, Robert Ingersoll, had the same experience.
John: Charles Darwin wrote how he was driven away from God by the thought that God would torture people all throughout eternity. Now, we're not about to tell people that there is no hell, I don't think. What does the Bible say on this subject?
Gary: Well, there's definitely a hell. In fact, Jesus talks about it several times. In Matthew 10:28, he said, "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But, rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
John: So, there's a hell all right.
Gary: Definitely. In Matthew 5, Verse 30, He said, "Your whole body will be cast into hell." So, there's definitely a hell to shun.
John: Mary Ellen was told that but led her to the point where she shunned Jesus. Let's try to get to the bottom of what this hell is really like. Jesus said it exists, it's, obviously, hot, there's going to be some flames. I think as we talk today, we'll find out just how hot hell actually is. Is this something, like my friend was told, that burns without ceasing forever and ever and ever? What do we read in the Bible, Gary?
Gary: John, when I grew up, I was told hell was a place in the center of the earth that was boiling melting lava, that the Devil was in charge of hell, that he was a little man down there in a red Lycra suit, with a pitchfork and a barbed tail and that he was in charge of hellfire.
But, as you look at what the Scripture says, it doesn't depict as hell, going on in the center of the earth, as this boiling, flaming place where all the dead souls and spirits go. The Bible says that hell happens at the end of time and it tells us that, while there is a fire, the fire has a purpose.
John: OK, let's talk about that purpose for a while. What's going to take place? What's the fire going to do?
Gary: Well, let me ask you, who goes into hellfire?
John: The lost people.
Gary: Lost people. And so, the Bible says, the wages of sin is what?
John: The wages of sin, Roman 6, Verse 23, is death.
Gary: Is death. Now, Scripture says there are two deaths. There's the first death that all of us die but there's also the second death and that's the final judgment of death and that's what happens in hellfire.
And so, we have to look at that and we have to say, well, what happens in hellfire? You go to Malachi, Chapter 4, and you find, "For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly, will be stubble." Now, John, that's not the stubble like you have on your face today.
John: No, sure.
Gary: You didn't shave this morning, did you?
John: No, stubble, this is a prop for our study today, you see.
Gary: OK, so stubble is referring to when the agricultural people, back in the time of Malachi, would harvest their groups, they would leave the little stubs of the stalks of grain. And then, as they prepared for the next crop to come, they would actually set it on fire and it would burn the field off and clean it all up.
I used to live in Mississippi when they would harvest the cotton and you would see all the stubble left after they harvested the cotton and then they would light the fields and you'd see hundreds of acres on fire. They would burn it all down, turn it into ashes, and then they could plow it and plant a new crop.
Well, notice here, in Malachi 4, it says, "All the wicked will be like stubble." Then it goes on and says, "And the day which is coming, shall burn them up, says the Lord of Hosts," referring to the wicked. "It will burn them up."
And then, Verse one says, it goes on and says, "It wills them neither root nor branch. You shall trample the wicked for they shall be ashes under the souls of your feet on the day that I do this, says the Lord of Hosts."
John: So, according to the Bible - at least what you've been telling me here the Bible says - hell will burn and the wicked will be in there, but eventually they will be reduced to ashes.
Gary: And ashes.
John: Where does this leave the idea that I was told as a child, and probably you were too, that if you're not good and you're not saved you're going to burn forever and ever and ever? It's not there, is it?
Gary: No, it's not. The effect of the fire is eternal, and we can look at some texts that say exactly that thing. For instance, Jude, Chapter 1, is referring to Sodom and Gomorrah. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? They were exceedingly wicked cities in the Old Testament period.
It says there, "As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is an example of eternal fire, the fire that burns.
And then in Second Peter 2, Verse 6, tells us what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. "God turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, and made an example to those who afterward would live ungodly."
John: If Sodom and Gomorrah is an example as to what is going to happen to the wicked, and Sodom and Gomorrah were reduced to ashes, that leads us in a very definite direction. There's a passage in the Book of Ezekiel, and I wonder if you can look at that for us.(amazing facts).
I demonstrate that the bible says there is a hell.As the atoms may not be seen or the wind..God is the same.I am proving my evidence through the bible also.
emospongebob527 forfeited this round.
nadlor1 forfeited this round.
emospongebob527 forfeited this round.
nadlor1 forfeited this round.
My opponents arguments reeks of illogical Bible logic, BOP has not been upheld.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Topiarey 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Bible not a source for hell. Con barely wins.
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