Where do you "GIVE" from?
I prefer an Atheist to take this challenge, sorry Christians.
NO belittling, degrading, disrespectful remarks against ME... being a Christian, please.
The Widow"s Offering
Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.
Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything"all she had to live on."
1)Why did Jesus sit and just watch? What was he observing?
2)Why did they point out there were 'rich people' making deposits? What is the significance?
3)Why did they point out the widow woman ? How much she gave?
4)Why did Jesus say she gave the most and how do you explain that?
Let me start by welcoming my opponent to DDO, and thanking her for graciously inviting me to face her in this debate. I have suggested using what I think is a more clearly stated resolution, but Pro is adamant that she wants this discussion to be centered on the questions posed in her opening.
I thank readers for your interest, but I impose a truly difficult request of you. Please put aside your personal bias, whether theist or atheist. Do not side with who you agree with, but rather who argues most convincingly. For the moment, consider Jesus objectively, as a literary character whose story is described in a series of books, and nothing more, unless it can be logically and reasonably be justified that we should. For the purpose of this debate wipe the slate clean. You have no opinion one way or the other regarding the divinity of this book, no baggage but also no advantages. Close your eyes for a moment and just try. Atheists too! Try. Okay. Now we are ready to debate.
1) Even as a boy, the Jesus character in the Bible was a young scholar that was constantly preoccupied with learning Jewish theology (Luke 2:41-52). He seems to have also been a keen observer of human behavior, which appears to be what he was doing in this instance.
2) As the son of a carpenter, and as a Jewish commoner in a Roman occupied province, Jesus enjoyed no privilege or benefit from a social order which shamelessly and mercilessly excluded him, despite his merit and high intelligence. Unable to ascend to wealth or status in a material sense in that system, but capable of so much more, he creatively and imaginatively developed his own alternate reality, one which was inherently dismissive to the wealth and power in a traditional sense which he could never have, trumped it to infinity in the unseen afterlife, and glorified the lowly, owntrodden, and victimized people which he more closely identified with and empathized with.
3) As I mentioned in 2, because of his own disenfranchisement and frustrated ambition, Jesus was more inclined to relate to and identify with the poor and the weak rather than the wealthy and the mighty who he views as oppressors and thus disdains. His influence over the masses gave him an extremely potent, if untraditional, kind of power. Jesus himself was probably convinced that he was the messiah and the Son of God, perhaps even the creator of the universe itself. Great and powerful men are especially susceptible to these kinds of delusions (examples will gladly be provided upon request), and as his influence grew it should not be surprising that he fell prey to this self-deception, especially as he had been born during a time period when the Jews were eagerly awaiting a messiah as promised in their prophesies. Even though his non-violent approach isn't what most had expected, for the ignorant, superstitious, and downtrodden Jewish Roman subjects who followed him, it offered at least some kind of abstract and mysterious hope.
4) For the rich, even donating an amount hundreds of times what that old woman offered wouldn’t put a dent in their treasury, and they wouldn’t even notice the loss. For her, even that small amount represented a far higher percentage of her income, and thus a truly great sacrifice. You can’t fund any operation on that kind of meager donation, but it provided a powerful symbol for the attractive and almost democratic idea that everyone has something to contribute; everyone counts. Jesus was a gifted and compassionate thinker and communicator who was ahead of his time in some ways. Nevertheless, as obvious as I think this may be, I do feel obliged to note that there’s a big difference between being a gifted philosopher who makes unsupported, unscientific, unfalsifiable, and thus unconvincing claims, and actually being an all-powerful creator of time and space. That's a pretty far leap. Care to try to getting us there, Pro?
rhondadpattison forfeited this round.
I assume my mindblowing observations have stricken my opponent with severe headaches. In all seriousness though, I do hope she feels better soon. I've delayed posting until towards the end of my time in the hopes that she will be able to recover in time to pick up the debate in the next round. If she chooses to continue, then I ask voters to disregard this round entirely; count this as if it were only a two round debate. Thanks everyone, and best wishes.
Me thinks you overlooked a whole bunch but that is what I want to save for another debate... same topic... just give me time to get better.
My fever spiked at 102.1 but the headaches returned making me sick to my stomach... so I will not continue this debate in such condition. I hope you understand.
Like I said, I copied this debate & ur 1st answer and it is safe for when we pick this up again....
Thanks everyone for your tolerance/patience <3
Oh of course, I understand. My debate skills are sickeningly awesome! :)
Glad I could give you a laugh in your time of stress, take all the time you need to get better. I definitely do look forward to re-debating this and hearing your rebuttal. In the meantime, stay hydrated and dream of puppies. Best wishes to you and your family.