The Instigator
Shades
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
emospongebob527
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
emospongebob527
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/20/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,312 times Debate No: 26401
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

Shades

Pro

Acceptance round.
emospongebob527

Con

I accept, state your case.
Debate Round No. 1
Shades

Pro

Which came first, The chicken or the egg. The chicken obviously came first. If it didn't then what animal could have laid the egg?
emospongebob527

Con

What a surprisingly weak, one sentence argument.

The theory of evolution states that species change over time via mutation and sexual reproduction. Since DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) can be modified only before birth, a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that an animal similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken eggs. These eggs then hatched into chickens that inbred to produce a living population. Hence, in this light, both the chicken and the structure of its egg evolved simultaneously from birds that, while not of the same exact species, gradually became more and more like present-day chickens over time.

Not any mutation in one individual can be considered as constituting a new species. A speciation event involves the separation of one population from its parent population, so that interbreeding ceases; this is the process whereby domesticated animals are genetically separated from their wild forebears. The whole separated group can then be recognized as a new species.

The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl. Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the chicken egg, based on the second definition, came before the chicken.

This implies that the egg existed long before the chicken, but that the chicken egg did not exist until an arbitrary threshold was crossed that differentiates a modern chicken from its ancestors. Since this arbitrary distinction cannot be made until after the egg has hatched, one would have to first find the original chicken, then from this find the first egg it laid.

A simple view is that at whatever point the threshold was crossed and the first chicken was hatched, it had to hatch from an egg. The type of bird that laid that egg, by definition, was on the other side of the threshold and therefore not technically a chicken—it may be viewed as a proto-chicken or ancestral chicken of some sort, from which a genetic variation or mutation occurred that thus resulted in the egg being laid containing the embryo of the first chicken. In this light the argument is settled and the egg had to have come first.



Debate Round No. 2
Shades

Pro

Shades forfeited this round.
emospongebob527

Con

Extend my argument.
Debate Round No. 3
Shades

Pro

um, I like pickles?
emospongebob527

Con

Conduct: Pro concedes

S&G: Tie

Arguments: Pro concedes

Sources: Tie

Pro has dropped my argument, Vote Con

"um, I like pickles?"

Empirical arguments remain otiose until proven.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
egg. it;s obvius that the mutation was at the foetus.
Posted by Shades 4 years ago
Shades
chicken
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
Just to verify.............. Will you be claiming for the chicken or the egg?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by tylersch96 4 years ago
tylersch96
Shadesemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: pickles?
Vote Placed by RyuuKyuzo 4 years ago
RyuuKyuzo
Shadesemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF + no real argument from Pro