The Instigator
Mayday17
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Dilara
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

"White people" in America have an affirmative duty to combat systemic racism.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Dilara
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/19/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 718 times Debate No: 76719
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)

 

Mayday17

Pro

In light of the Charleston killings, the topic of racism in America has again been brought to the forefront. In order to argue for my position, I think I must show that (1) systemic and/or institutionalized racism exists in America, and (2) white people have an affirmative duty to affect change within those systems and/or institutions.

(1) America was created by and for white people - our Constitution reflected as much by condoning slavery and the superiority of the white race. As naturally occurs, those in power generally do what they can to remain in power and over the centuries, the laws and systems created by the American government have always favored white people (or non-minorities or not people of color). This occurs not only through written law and judicial decisions, but also through those actually holding power and exercising it with their own discretion. Today, those who enforce the laws and control much of the economy still do not accurately reflect the demographics of America - most of the power still resides in white people's hands, and this power is continually used to benefit white people and violate the equal rights of non-whites. Recent headlines alone should be enough support for the position that institutional, systemic racism exists in America.

(2) White people are part of a group, or race, and have consistently self-identified as 'white' since the formation of America. White people come from different communities, as religions have sects, but they benefit equally. There are members of the group that have extremist views, particularly those that feel like the white race is superior to other races (racists). Because white people with such views are more likely to engage and be persuaded by other white people, and because white people generally have privileges and opportunities resulting from these hateful views, it is the duty of white people to combat racism when confronted by it - indifference or silence to racism is merely implicit racism.
Dilara

Con

White people are not collectively responsible for what happened in SC . Just like black people are not collectively responsible for the murderer of Zemir Begic--a white man--by black teens who yelled "kill white people".http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Black people are also not responsible for any of these instances
http://www.dailymail.co.uk... A 13 year old boy in Kansas city Missouri who was doused with gas and set a light by two black teens who yelled "you get what you deserve white boy"

http://www.wnd.com...

https://www.youtube.com... "beat whitey night" at the Iowa state fair in 2010

The individuals who commit these atrocities are responsible for them--no one else. A black person who lives in Florida and took no part in the murderer of Zemir Begic is not responsible for his death. A white person in Georgia, California or any where else, who did not take part in the Charleston shooting is not responsible for it. Individuals need to insure that they obey the law, and that others around them obey the law. It is is not the job of random people to stop crazy thugs, 1000 miles away from committing violent acts. There is no way most white people could have stopped this massacre. There is no way most black people could have stopped the murderer of Zemir Begic. There is no way most slims could have stopped the Boston bombings. No group of people should take repository for what one member of that group do.
When it comes to history 5% of whites owned slaves. most whites came to america in the 1800s and worked in factories. Others were indentured servants and craftsmen. Most whites don't have racist slave owning ancestors and most whites aren't racist thugs, like the Charleston shooter.
Debate Round No. 1
Mayday17

Pro

I completely agree that neither white people nor black people are responsible for the individual acts of there members - a white person is not liable for the shootings in Charleston any more than a black person is liable for the DC Sniper shootings.

Instead I am arguing that when systemic and institutionalized problems exist within a group, like racism or extremism, members of that group have an affirmative duty to combat the source of those group-wide issues. In other words, I am arguing that because systemic racism exists within white culture and institutions, white people have a duty to engage their peers who contribute or encourage racism or they themselves are implicitly contributing to racism. Similarly, it could be argued that Christians and Muslims have a duty to reach out to those misusing their faith or they too are contributing to the problem of extremism and hatred via their silence. For example, don't all Catholics have an affirmative duty to combat pedophilia within the Catholic church, since child molestation has been recognized as being a systemic problem within the church?

Having a duty to act to change group problems within a group differs from being responsible for the individual actions of members of a group. White people, like people of color, black people or religious groups, have a duty to combat group-wide problems that negatively impact society and their group's reputation. This is wholly distinguishable from holding the entire group responsible or liable for the actions of its members.
Dilara

Con

I would like to point out that there is no problem of systematic racism within the white American culture. There are 200million white Americans, all living in different states, speaking different languages or dialects , practicing different religions ect. There are many sub cultures within the white community. For example there are white English American Mormons in Utah who are descendants of people who settled there in the 1800s. Than there are whites in the Upper Midwest who are descendants of Scandinavian settlers. If racism is ingrained in White English Utahan Mormon American culture than it is the job of white English American Mormons in Utah to stand up to that problem- not Upper Midwestern Scandinavian Americans who have a completely different sub culture than English American Mormon Utahan culture . I am not claiming that there is a problem of racism within Mormon Utahan culture, that was a example. This thug who shot up the church belonged to a sub culture within the greater white ,American culture. If the sub culture that he belonged to has racist tendencies than members of that sub culture need to fight those tendencies--not Scandinavian upper Midwestern Americans , German Americans in Pennsylvanian, Italian Americans in NYC or any other white american who are members of a different sub cultures. Still we can not blame entire sub cultures for the acts of individuals. What would be most be efficient way to end racial attacks is to start within ones close community--ones town, neighborhood ect. If you believe that someone in your town is likely to commit a violent crime than do something. But people 5 states away who do not know that person have no responsibly of stopping a particular individual from committing a crime, even if that potential criminal belongs to their sub culture. White america, as well as black america cannot be painted with such a broad brush.
http://humanevents.com...
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Debate Round No. 2
Mayday17

Pro

Mayday17 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

White Americans are always shamed. We are shamed for what members of our race did decades ago, even though many of our ancestors fought against those things (my ancestors were Mennonite abolitionists. One fought in the civil war, voluntarily to free the slaves). Not only are we shamed for things that our ancestors did not take part in(most white Americans have ancestors who came from Europe in the 1800s, with little money and worked in dirty factories for long hours, while others have ancestors who came earlier and worked as indentured servants, farmers and craftsmen), and even for what our ancestors suffered from (Irish, Italian and white Catholic Amerindians were discriminated against), We are shamed for things that happen today--things we as individuals have no control over. If I knew that a thug was going to walk into a church and kill 9 people, I would have stopped it, but I didn't know the killer and I don't even live in SC. No one should be judged for what members of their race, who they don't eve know do. We should be judged as individuals. If a member of your community who you know, shows signs of racism than you should help that person overcome any racist thoughts they have, but if it is someone in a different state who you don't know than it is not your job teach them about equality. White Americans cant be painted with a broad brush, as there are many sub cultures within the greater white america community--Italian Americans in NYC, German Americans in PA--and all those sub groups have different cultures and history.
I didn't hear any People saying that black people had to combat racism within the black community after any of these black on white hate crimes. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 3
Mayday17

Pro

Mayday17 forfeited this round.
Dilara

Con

I would like to note that in america white people are discriminated against, by affirmative action. Do all minorities, and women have a job to combat the racism and sexism that comes in the form of AA? of course not?. If you are able to combat a problem, if there is any small thing you can do to improve your life or others lives than you should. But you should not go out of your way, or put your self in danger in order to combat problems if you don't want to. All people who have relatively easy lives should do a little bit to help those with harder lives, in the forms of donations, voting ect. But no one should try to fight a problem by disadvantaging innocent people who did not benefit from ad had nothing to do with the problem facing the other group, like how AA, witch is done to combat problems of anti black and anti women discrimination, disadvantages innocent men and whites. Certainly no one should solve a problem by blaming them selves for it, Simply because they are a certain race. Assuming that all whites benefit from racism or participate in it is bigotry. I explained in my last post about how most American whites did not benefit from racism or take part in it (as only 5% owned slaves) and how most american whites don't have racist or slave owning ancestors. Most american whites have ancestors who came as indentured servants, (https://en.wikipedia.org... ) and were treated horribly by their masters, while others have ancestors who were poor farmers, craftsmen and later factory workers. Most whites came to america from Europe because of economic problems in Europe. After the Irish potato famine in the 1850s 3million Irish came to America. Other whites came to america because they faced religious persecution in Europe http://christianity.about.com... http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
(1) Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Profile: http://www.debate.org...

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>Reported vote: Midnight1131// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: FF

[*Reason for non-removal*] (1) A forfeit is often viewed as a conduct violation, and Pro forfeited 2 rounds. It is at the discretion of the voter to determine whether or not this constitutes a conduct violation, and this voter decided to do so. They are not required to award any other points if they do not wish to do so.
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Posted by stargate 1 year ago
stargate
In what why would you want us to help?
Posted by MakeSensePeopleDont 1 year ago
MakeSensePeopleDont
@Mayday17

I wanted to make this point in private message as to not create a storm over this but you are not accepting messages.

The color White, RGB value 255, 255, 255, is actually the inclusion of ALL possible colors in the visible light spectrum. The color Black, RGB value 0, 0, 0 is actually the lack of all color. This is why I find it funny when people say they are "colored"

To explain it in simple, scientific optic terms, without giving details about true saturation:

When light is produced (lets say by the light in your lamp here), it is white. This means it encapsulates all colors of the visible spectrum (think about the prism in school, you hold the crystal to the sun and a rainbow appears). The light waves travel in straight lines, bouncing off of every object in the room. Each item the light hits, saturates (absorbs like a sponge) every light wave length except one, the one color not saturated is the color you see.

So, again picture a rainbow, this one in your room. imagine you are holding a green cup in your hand. Imagine the rainbow hits the side of the cup, the cup would absorb every color of that rainbow EXCEPT green. As the light from the rainbow reflects back off the cup, the only color that would remain would be green. This green enters your eye and is properly processed, rendering a green cup. When asked what color that cup is, scientifically the correct answer is "every color except green". However, that would be confusing so we say it is green. If an object absorbs every color of the visible spectrum, you will have no light wave length returned from the object, so there is no light; black; lacking color. This is why it's black when it's dark.

Just a stupid educational piece. You seem pretty cool and not an a$$ so I figured I'd share my knowledge with you.
Posted by Mike_10-4 1 year ago
Mike_10-4
My Friend, you need not apologize. Like in all debates, we learn a little more advancing our wisdom.

And in say in that. Good luck in your debate; while I observe on the sidelines advancing my wisdom.
Posted by Mayday17 1 year ago
Mayday17
I reread my comments. I did accuse you of being racist. I apologize for the rush to judgment.
Posted by Mayday17 1 year ago
Mayday17
@Mike_10-4 I didn't accuse you of being racist - I said "it seems to me you're excusing racism and blaming the victims instead of acknowledging that the problem exists." Maybe I jumped the gun there, but to be clear, do you believe that systemic and institutionalized forms of racism exist, outside of the profiteering and politicking you refer to?
Posted by Mike_10-4 1 year ago
Mike_10-4
@Mayday17

Please my Friend. Don't blame me for quoting the words of Booker T. Washington. You are trying to kill the messenger by claiming the messenger as being "racist" while trying to enlighten you about the diversity of opinion of those who are Black. Yes, those Black conservatives who are trying to save our country; past and present.
Posted by stargate 1 year ago
stargate
Yeah, but they do a lot of the same things we do. Most of us have gotten better. Racism is not as big as it was in the 60's and 70's. We have gotten better, but I stand against sending any tax money to help them. If they want better jobs then go to collage. But I know for a fact that no nation is prefect.
Posted by Mayday17 1 year ago
Mayday17
@stargate Well at least you're willing to admit that racism exists. I really didn't even think that was debatable. But I don't agree that people are color are to blame for all the racism that exists. One reason that people of color have a harder time finding jobs and escaping poverty is because of racism. True, some us it as an excuse or crutch, but many more continually fight against it in order to better themselves.
Posted by stargate 1 year ago
stargate
We try, but they are the ones who are more racist. It is there own faults for not having well paying jobs or being in poor neighborhoods. We do not have to send money to stop them being poor. They hate us more then we hate them, I have seen it my self.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
Mayday17DilaraTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF