The Instigator
inrainbows
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
Mr_Khan
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Who controls The United States?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,749 times Debate No: 2244
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (14)

 

inrainbows

Pro

I am proposing that The United States of America is run by a group of "elites" and is not a true democracy anymore. I of course do not who and how many exactly are included in the "elite" ruling. I set this debate for four rounds, so I will allow my opponent to post the first argument of this debate. I'm simply stating my position in this round.
Mr_Khan

Con

America being ran by elites? What elites do you refer to? Are you referring to Congressmen and women, or Senators? Technically we are ran by our governing officials which could, and is not limited to, senators, congressmen and women, mayors, council members, governors, the president of the US, VP of the US? Or do you refer more to elites such as attorneys and business men and women? Technically speaking our government is ran by the government, in which, we chose our elected officials. A true democracy where it is, "For the people, by the people," really hasn't happened since ancient Roman and Greek times. It would be impossible for our country to be for us and by us.

Another argument for the "elites" is that referring to the idea of the "elitist theory" is that the elitists were usually kings, queens, noble men and women, and people of that nature. If you base our government on that, then no, our "democracy" is not ran by the elites.

Your turn for your stance :)
Debate Round No. 1
inrainbows

Pro

First off, sorry for not making my opening argument more clear. My position is that we are run by an elite that is a nucleus of certain high power people. This includes certain bankers, officials from the Federal Reserve, certain politicians, oil tycoons. As i said before, I don't truly know of who exactly. I would like to start off with a few quotes.

"Let me control a peoples currency and I care not who makes their laws."
-Meyer Nathaniel Rothschild

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew
Jackson."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure."
-Joseph Kennedy(father of JFK and RFK)

Those are just a few important figures who have come out to the truth of the matter.

So lets begin with the Bilderberg Group who's first meeting was held at Hotel De bilderberg between the 29th and 31st of May in 1954. It was at first designed to bring together high officials on concerns about the growth of anti-Americanism in western Europe. It was proposed as an international meeting in which leaders from European countries and The United States would be brought together with the goal to promote understanding of each others cultures. Each year the list of invites is different, but their are certain members who attend each and every year. They would include: central bankers, defense experts, mass media press barons, government ministers, prime ministers, Royalty, international financiers and political leaders from Europe and North America. Donald Rumsfeld attends nearly every year, Peter Sutherland from Ireland, who formally was a European Union Commissioner, chairmen of Goldman Sachs and British Petroleum also is an active Bilderberg attendee. The bilderberg group is extremely secret, and information on what and who they talk about is rarely leaked. Due to that fact, their are people who believe they are tied to the 'New World Order'(NWO), who ultimently wish to decrease the human population size to two billion and have one world government and religion. Now I don't know if I believe this yet, but I certainly see it as possible.

In Yugoslavia, leading Serbs have blamed Bilderberg for triggering the war which led to the downfall of Slobodan Milosevic. The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, the London nail-bomber David Copeland and Osama Bin Laden are all said to have bought into the theory that Bilderberg pulls the strings with which national governments dance. The BBC uncovered incredible archived Bilderburg documents which confirm that both the EU(European Union) and the Euro were the brainchild of Bilderberg.
~http://www.propagandamatrix.com...

I would like to bring up the Trilateral Commission founded in July of 1973, created at the initiative of David Rockefeller who at the time was the chairman of The Council on Foreign Relations. The formation of the Trilateral Commission came together with Zbigniew Brzezinski and a few other people, including individuals from the Brookings Institution, Council on Foreign Relations, and the Ford foundation. At first, he(Rockefeller) convened simple meetings, but over a short amount of time, the Trilateral Commission was born. Two other key founders of the commission were Alan Greenspan and Paul volcker, both eventually heads of the Federal Reserve. Membership is divided into numbers proportionate to each of its three regional areas. These members include corporate CEOs, politicians of all major parties, distinguished academics, university presidents, labor union leaders and not-for-profits involved in overseas philanthropy. Members who gain a position in their respective country's government must resign from the Commission. Currently their are three chairman: Tom Foley-North America (former Democratic Congressman, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives and ambassador to Japan), Peter Sutherland -Europe (Irish businessman and former politician associated with the Fine Gael party; former Attorney General of Ireland and European Commissioner in the first Delors Commission; former director general of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, the precursor to the World Trade Organization; Chairman of BP and Goldman Sachs International), and Yotaro Kobayashi-Pacific Asia (chairman of the Fuji Xerox company). Here is a list of some current or formal members:
~David Rockefeller: Founder of the Commission; Chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank board from 1969 to 1981; Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations from 1970 to 1985, now honorary Chairman; a life member of the Bilderberg Group.
~Henry Kissinger: U.S. diplomat, National Security Advisor and Secretary of State in the Nixon and Ford administrations; former Chairman of the International Advisory Committee of JP Morgan Chase.
~George H.W. Bush: Former President of the U.S.
~Jimmy Carter: Former President of the U.S.
~Bill Clinton: Former President of the U.S.
~Francis Maude: MP for Horsham, the only British MP currently a member of the Trilateral Commission, former Conservative Party Chairman, son of the late Sir Angus Maude MP
~Walter Mondale: former vice-president of the U.S.(under Carter)
~Dick Cheney: Current vice-president of the U.S.
~Robert Taft Jr.: US Senator
~Alexander Haig: former Secretary of State (under Reagan)
~Ted Sorensen: special adviser to President Kennedy
~Warren Christopher: former Secretary of State (under Clinton) and deputy Secretary of State (under Carter)
~Robert Rubin: Treasury Secretary under Clinton
~Bruce Babbitt: Interior Secretary under Clinton
~Henry Cisneros: HUD Secretary under Clinton
~Lee Raymond: Former CEO and Chairman, ExxonMobil, vice chairman of the Board of Trustees of the American Enterprise Institute, director of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., director and member of the Executive Committee and Policy Committee of the American Petroleum Institute.
~Zbigniew Brzezinski: U.S. National Security Advisor to U.S. President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981
~Paul Volcker: Chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve from 1979 to 1987, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Group of Thirty.
~Alan Greenspan: Former Chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve
~Paul Wolfowitz: Former President of the World Bank, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense and a prominent member of the neo-conservatives in Washington.
~Robert Zoellick: Nominated President of the World Bank, Former Deputy Secretary of State, former U.S. Trade Representative
~Mary Robinson: President of Ireland from 1990 to 1997 as a candidate for the Labour Party; United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights from 1997 to 2002.
~Sergei Karaganov: Presidential adviser to Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin; member of the International Advisory Board of the Council on Foreign Relations from 1995 to 2005.
~Bill Graham: former Canadian Minister of National defense and Minister of Foreign Affairs under Paul Martin; since 2006, interim parliamentary leader of the Liberal Party
~Mugur Isarescu: Governor of the National Bank of Romania since 1990 and prime minister from December 1999 to November 2000; he worked for the Minister of Foreign Affairs then for the Romanian Embassy in the U.S. after the 1989 Romanian revolution

The list goes on, those are just some important figures who are or once were part of the Trilateral Commission. I feel like between those two groups, their is way to many secrets that we don't know about. Both have been connected to the NWO because of their extreme measures of keeping all their plans a secret. One of the bigger differences between the two is that the Trilateral Commission allowed Japan to enter its rankings, unlike the Bilderberg who keep it between North America and western Europe(NATA alliance).
Mr_Khan

Con

I must say this will be a great debate, I think, whether i know a lot or not. I am not too familiar with the Bilderberg Group or the conspiracy behind it. I have heard of this "NWO", but that is just a conspiracy, I think. Secondly, leading Serbs may have blamed Bilderberg for the war and leading to the downfall fo Slobodan Milosevic, but lets get facts straight. Slobodan Milosevic was an animal. He did the same thing, or attempted, what Hitler did, and did not succeed in. The war was not due to Slobodan Milosevic, the war was based on ethnic tensions between a minority and majority group. You cannot take the words that McVeigh, Copeland, and Bin Laden to heart and view it as truth or something that is substantial. These people, after all, are crazy lunatics who have only done bad, harming, and murdering people.

And can you clarify your argument with the Trilateral Commission? how is it elitist? You not yes, labor union leaders, and non-for-profits, but you also list distinguished academics and university presidents, which to me are not elitists. They may have some money, but they are not millionaires or billionaires. They are the educators of the future world.

The Council on Foreign Relations was created out of the Foreign Relations Committee, and most, if not all, members of the CFR are former ambassadors, heads of state, and even people in the State Department.
Debate Round No. 2
inrainbows

Pro

Indeed the New World Order is just another conspiracy, but I personally believe it exist. Can you not believe that the leaders of our world would not want a one government system? Where they could have full control of a smaller population, to accomplish whatever they wish, to police whatever third-world countries they want.

You cannot assume and simply believe that every distinguished academics and university presidents are here to help us. When it comes down to it, most men and woman will sell their soul for money, and money is not an issue for the bilderberg group.

Yes McVeigh, Copeland, and Bin Laden are extremely evil men. So can their evil not be used by an organization? It was these men who supposedly orchestrated the attacks(although, I personally believe Bin Laden to be a cover-up), but could their of been a motive other then hating us? The bilderberg group represents an organization of powerful men and woman, who have the ability to get whatever they want. Their not going to attack their own country be it by airplane or train and then admit it, their has to be someone to have it fall on.

"The technocratic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."
-Zbigniew Brzeninski, National Security Adviser to Jimmy Carter and President Bush as co-chairman of the Bush National Security Advisory Task Force; executive director of the Trilateral Commission

"The Trilateral Commission is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power – political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical."
-Barry Goldwater

"Many of the original members of the Trilateral Commission are now in positions of power where they are able to implement policy recommendations of the commission; that they, themselves, prepare on behalf of the commission. It is for this reason that the commission has acquired a reputation for being a shadow government of the west."
-Journalist and Trilateral Commission researcher Robert Eringer

"This may cost me everything that I have, but I've got to get out an alert to the American people. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillfully coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power, political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateralists intend is the creation of a world-wide economic power superior to the government of the nation states. In other words, what they are driving, orchestrating, meshing and gearing to accomplish is the New World Order, the one-world government"
-Senator Barry Goldwater

One of the most basic facts regarding the Trilateral Commission is that it was created to deflect attention away from the Council of Foreign Relations. The Trilateral Commission to me represents a tool used by the Bilderberg Group, much like the Council on Foreign Relations. So in my eyes, this is a possible explanation of how the Trilateral Commission is connected to the Bilderberg group. So lets say, Bilderberg gets together, they create plans. They then relay this message through certain members to the Trilateral Commission who have certain politicians, business tycoons, oil tycoons, certain bankers, and members from the mainstream media such as the Washington Post and New York Times. So whatever Bilderberg necessary wants, they can access with the large gathering of specialist in different areas of state control.
Mr_Khan

Con

Mr_Khan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
inrainbows

Pro

inrainbows forfeited this round.
Mr_Khan

Con

Mr_Khan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Mr_Khan 9 years ago
Mr_Khan
I know the debate was going well, its just i got tangled up in a lot of work and got sick and haven't been able to think coherently to debate :( next debate should be awesome!
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
Your opinions are a little frightening, rshortman.

"The corporate elite ensure the country's productivity, quality of life and success."
Are you kidding? Corporate Capitalism is one of the key factors in creating problems not just in this country but the entire world. The multi-nationals can buy, or already own, most politicians in one way or another.
In regard to your last paragraph: You understand that "W" lost the 2000 election, right? So no, we didn't elect him. And would you really use "smart" to describe him? I'm sorry for you if you think he is. He is the perfect example of a spoiled, closed-minded, idiotic American Imperialist.

The debate was going well guys. I hate you stopped short. Hope to see more.
Posted by rshortman 9 years ago
rshortman
A group of elites run the country? That sounds a bit conspiratorial.

First of all, as a Republic, we sort of by default elect elites to run the country for us. After all, history has shown us that a true democracy (majority rules) does not and cannot work on such a large scale as national level.

Secondly, elites are dispersed by groups and what exactly it is that they control? I'd argue that liberal elites, do in fact, control the majority of the media and the entertainment industry. Money, at least in it's true capitalistic form, it luckily controlled by the business elite. This is a GOOD thing. If that were not so, we wouldn't have the employment rates or the foreign trade we do nor the high quality, low cost goods that are available to all. The corporate elite ensure the country's productivity, quality of life and success. I certainly wouldn't want every two-bit shmuck on the street making those decisions, even if they are the majority. Pardon my french, but they'd f*** it up for the rest of us.

And as for the white house, congress, government entities and the senate: well, we elect those people to make decisions for us. WHY? Because...we....ask...them...to THAT'S WHY. We have neither to skills, knowledge or experience to make highly technical decisions like homeland security measures, for example. Are you an expert in that? I'm not! And my guess is, most of America isn't either. That's why we have the smart, the elite and yes, even the rich running the country. Any other system would result in complete total utter collapse.
Posted by Mr_Khan 9 years ago
Mr_Khan
yeah i think a new debate would be better because i have missed something, it doesn't seem substantial to me? so new debate is fine w/ me
Posted by inrainbows 9 years ago
inrainbows
I understand, although I am getting your comment to late. So we could after your post of course, start a new debate continuing if you want?
Posted by Mr_Khan 9 years ago
Mr_Khan
yeah i would like to continue the debate, i was really sick recently and didn't even attempt to do anything. sorry.
Posted by inrainbows 9 years ago
inrainbows
Do you wish to continue this debate, This is my last chance to post something?
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Vote Placed by Battlecry 8 years ago
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