Who is the best 2016 presidential candidate (Democrat or Republican) still in the race?
Debate Rounds (4)
Round 1 is acceptance only. The real fight starts in round 2.
Free college? We're trillions in debt, that's not happening.
$15 an hour minimum wage? That would make unemployment go through the roof.
Socialism in general? It will fail us, just like it always fails. Even in countries that claim to have made socialism work (Sweden, Danemark, etc), they still have mostly capitalist style economies.
On the other hand, Kasich actually knows his economics. He wants to cut taxes and limit union powers, which will create jobs and help the economy.
So, please tell me why you're voting Bernie Sanders, or why you're against Kasich.
Employment would go up, here's how:
Sanders plans to pour 14.5 million dollars into the economy. This money would be used for making free college, free health care, raising minimum wage, etc. By doing this, specifically raising minimum wage it would lower the gap between the rich and the poor. That increases economic productivity and promotes economic equality.
It works because he's bringing money in and not cutting taxes. There will be an increase in business demand and more people would be hired, thus the employment rate going up.
Not only do Bernie Sanders' plans work, but he is one of the only candidates who truly cares about the working class. He's got an amazing track record to prove it!
John Kasich might as well be a liberal in republican clothing. On almost all his issues he's right in the middle or leaning toward the republican side. John Kasich has been called hot-headed and temperamental. Kasich isn't the right choice for America. He's not ready to handle the big issues. And he most definitely doesn't represent the true republican party, not these days anyway.
Two things. 1) Popularity does not automatically equal quality. 2) Kasich has had to fight Donald Trum, Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina, and Mike Huckabee, and even a member of the Bush family. Sanders has only had to fight Clinton, and he's still losing. So the point that he has simply won more states is not valid.
"Sanders plans to pour 14.5 million dollars into the economy." Dude, 14.5 million is worthless in the grand scheme of things. In terms of our economy, adding 14.5 million is like adding ten drops of water to the Pacific ocean; ultimately, it goes unnoticed.
"By doing this, specifically raising minimum wage it would lower the gap between the rich and the poor. That increases economic productivity and promotes economic equality."
No, if you raise the minimum wage, you would simply drive up unemployment and inflation. It's simple really; if it costs more for a business to employ someone, they are going to employ less people, and lay off a lot of the workers they already have. Trust me, my dad, a former small business owner, once had to fire his only employee because it was simply too expensive to keep her around (and the fact that she needed smoke breaks constantly), but still, the main reason he had to lay her off was because until his business grew, he just couldn't afford her. Now, imagine if he was legally allowed to cut her salary by a dollar or two an hour; he would win, because he would have had a secretary, she would have won, because she would have kept her job. But thanks to a high minimum wage where we used to live (Washington state) she got fired and he lost his only employee, whom he couldn't replace for months.
"Not only do Bernie Sanders' plans work, but he is one of the only candidates who truly cares about the working class. He's got an amazing track record to prove it!"
Yeah, why don't you do some research on Venezuela, see how well socialism is working in their country.
Here, I'll save you the work of finding a good link.
"John Kasich might as well be a liberal in republican clothing. " Good, moderate politicians are the best.
There are many pros to raising the minimum wage. Nobody likes poverty, no matter who you're voting for. Many people who live on minimum wage live close to or below the poverty line. Everybody would benefit from a higher minimum wage. The minimum wage doesn't even have to lift to $15. Just raising the minimum wage to about $10 would bring about 5 to 6 million people out of poverty. If companies paid their employees more, then not only would the quality be better but there would be more spending. Business would boom!
As to Venezuela, okay it didn't work. Socialism won't work everywhere, but this is America and Capitalism isn't working. Socialism is simple, to many it seems to good to be true or impossible, but that's because America's been run under by Capitalism. *Think about it this way, there are so many people living in hunger right now in the US, but that doesn't mean there's not enough food. You've got people who have more food then they would every need. If socialism works food could be distributed just enough so that everyone had a healthy diet. No more starving people. Most of this leads back to poverty, which of course could be solved by a higher minimum wage. Bernie's plans go full circle.
No moderate politicians are not the best. Why? Because if we're being honest the Republican Establishment isn't looking for moderate, they want conservatives. If John Kasich wanted to truly run he should have ran an independent, because he's not a republican. Also I would like to add you have not told me why you actually support Kasich. You've only given rebuttals to my statements. I would love to know why you believe in Kasich's ideas.
*I honestly have no idea if this is the right number. I just punched a few numbers into my calculator.
*This is EXTREMELY simplified. Of course a lot more would have to be done to do this to an entire country.
Yes, I have given you reasons why I support Kasich is both rounds 2 and 3. In round 2, I said "Kasich actually knows his economics. He wants to cut taxes and limit union powers, which will create jobs and help the economy." In round 3, i said "Good, moderate politicians are the best."
In case those weren't enough, I'll give you more reasons to vote Kasich:
As Governor of Ohio, Kasich has defunded Planned Parenthood (arguably the most corrupt non-profit since the church of Scientology), and wants to outlaw abortion, with the exceptions of rape and incest.
He realizes that Trump's absurd immigration policies are ridiculous.
And he realizes that for the economy to grow, we need less government, not more government. Here's a quote from him' "I know what the formula is: cut taxes, you restrain the government, you don't let the regulators put you out of business and you grow jobs."
As a sidenote, I do not want Hillary Clinton to win the election, but I'd pick her over Bernie Sanders any day. At least Hillary Clinton wouldn't ruin our economy. Honestly, the only redeemable quality I see in Bernie Sanders is that he supports gun ownership.
And now for the rebuttals
"Kasich is going no where in the race. "
Again, being popular does not make you correct. The notion that the Earth was flat was once a popular belief, but that didn't make it right.
And if being popular does make you correct, than Bernie Sanders is most certainly incorrect. Clinton has been beating him so badly that mathematically speaking, he cannot win the nomination, much less the election.
"Everybody would benefit from a higher minimum wage."
No. In fact, more people would face negative repercussions. Businessman like my father (see my argument in round 2) would lose because they'd be forced to hire less and layoff more people. The employees who get laid off or never get hired at all would lose because they've gone from making little money to making no money. Consumers would lose because inflation and the general level of prices would rise. So, except for the lucky few that don't get laid off, nobody wins.
"Socialism won't work everywhere, but this is America and Capitalism isn't working."
We have the highest GDP in the world, so I think it's safe to say capitalism is working fine. Yes, we don't have the highest GDP per capita, but our GDP is still highest in the world. You did say one correct thing: "this is America." You're out, this is America, not Sweden, not Denmark, America, a land where capitalism thrives. Will you ever see a Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs come out of Scandinavia, or Venezuela? Absolutely not, the best business they'll ever create is Ikea. Socialism is bad for business in general.
"No moderate politicians are not the best." Yes, they are. They incorporate the best aspects of both parties while excluding the negative aspects.
Closing Statement: John Kasich has ideals and experience that can make him an excellent president; Bernie Sanders does not. All he has are false promises and no plans to back them up. If he wants to live in Scandinavia, he should move there, and let men like Kasich run our country and bring us back into prosperity. And if there's still any doubt in your mind that socialism doesn't work, read this quote from Nobel Prize Winning Economist Milton Friedman; "Socialists don't understand economics. If they did, they wouldn't be socialists." Think you know more than Milton Friedman? In that case, where's your Nobel Prize?
AcidicApples, thank you for debating with me!
As for Donald Trump and realizing his plans are absurd. Everyone in the running thinks Donald Trump's plans are absurd.
Tax cuts, they work, but politicians love to oversimplify things. There's really no way to guarantee that cutting taxes will boost the economy. In 2001 and 2003 President Bush cut taxes which lead to the Great Recession. In 1990 President George H.W RAISED the taxes and the GDP increased over the next years of his term. The truth is tax cuts could have a positive effect, a bad one, or really no effect at all.
Bernie believes in less government too, considering he's a socialist that's to be expected. What socialism means is that most production, exchange and distribution belongs to the people.
A response to your side note: Hillary Clinton is worse than Donald Trump. She's power hungry, and even more than that a liar. At least Donald Trump is honest most of the time.
Being popular doesn't make you correct. If we're talking morally correct well then Sanders would have already won the nomination and be on his way to presidency. Running the country isn't about being a saint. Just because John Kasich believes that women who have been raped should have a right to an abortion doesn't mean that he didn't defund Planned Parenthood. If we're talking correct in a sense of what's good for America well none of these candidates would be president. None of the people still in the race knows EXACTLY EVERYTHING to do to get America out of debt and on top of the world again. Bernie Sanders is willing to work on what we need most which is getting the working class the equality they need. No one else is truly focused on that.
Bernie Sanders knows what he's doing. He's got a great track record and almost 60 years of government work to prove it.
Increasing minimum wage puts a little bit more in every pocket. That more people will show up to your *dad's business willing to buy whatever he's selling. He'll have enough to pay his workers and no one will get fired. In the beginning of course things will be a bit shaky, there might even be a drop in economy, but the fact is it will eventually boost the economy. Your dad's business will grow because more people will show up. More productivity! Everyone wins eventually. It works better than tax cuts because tax cuts aren't definite. Increasing minimum wage will help people.
Capitalism died a long time ago. Capitalism died when conditions for capital accumulation outgrew the wealth. We are just living in it's remnants. We're pumping out a lot more than we can afford. There aren't enough people willing to buy certain things anymore. We've always had these problems, but only recently have they been lethal to not only government, but economy. Capitalism may have worked in the past when we had big wars. The wars could wipe out what we were mass producing. Now in the nuclear age if we have a war well there will be no one to mass produce for. Capitalism is being suffocated in goods it can't sell. In this technological age more production doesn't mean more jobs. Without these jobs the working class suffers. With capitalism dying socialism is a good solution. This doesn't mean that capitalism doesn't work, it just means that for America we need a new plan.
Closing Statement: Bernie Sanders is ahead of the time. For me it is equality that I believe in the most. Bernie Sanders relates to the working class personally and I take that to heart. You won't hear any other politicians who believes in equality like him. To me that's special.
*Footnotes: I don't know if your dad even sells things, but let's pretend for the debate! :)
Thank you for this debate it was so much fun! I've learned so much more about economics and more about myself too. I hope we debate again in the future! I used the website below for my argument on capitalism, it's a good read!
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