The Instigator
Madmanwithabluebox
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BoggyDag
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Who is the best Doctor from Doctor Who? Justify your opinion and try to refute others opinions.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
BoggyDag
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 620 times Debate No: 67354
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

Madmanwithabluebox

Pro

I think that the eleventh doctor and seventh doctor are the best. The eleventh doctor's boundless enthusiasm gave the viewers a sense of wonder on to what there is to come. His playful eccentricity gave you the impression that the Doctor was an unpredictable alien. But most importantly during his era the writers played with the idea that the Doctor may not be a good man but most certaintly he is a madman with a box. The seventh doctor was a dark incarnation it showed how much of a "villain" the Doctor can be. The seventh doctor ended up been a cold, calculating, manipulative liar. He used Adric for his own purposes and betrayed his trust. This incarnation shows that the Doctor can be a monster. It shows the depth of the character known as the Doctor.
BoggyDag

Con

The best Doctor was and will always be the First Doctor.
The reason is obvious: Without his enormous success, the other, subsequent Doctors would never even have existed. So, the one, great, UNIQUE feat the First Doctor achieved was: being ORIGINAL.

All subsequent Doctors were/are derived works of art.

The first Doctor was just as manipulative as the Seventh, like in e first Dalek series, when he pretended that an important part of the TARDIS was damaged just so that his companions would agree to explore the planet.

He was playfully eccentric, just like when he addressed his successors in the first Three-Doctor-Crossover: "So you are my replacements, a dandy and a clown."

He also had a special connection to the world, as he was a grandparent at the time. This aspect of his personality was lost with the subsequent Doctors, who are thus less refined personalities.

Because of all this, all subsequent Doctors MUST by way of pure logic pale in comparison.
Debate Round No. 1
Madmanwithabluebox

Pro

It is true that the first doctor is the one that started it all but his stories for the most part where cheesy. For example The Gunfighters was such an akward episode with the cheesy scene when they sing. Altough I agree that the first doctor was a great one he pales in comparison to Matt Smith's soulful acting and Sylvesters genius storylines.
BoggyDag

Con

So, basically, what you are holding against the First Doctor is his appeal to children and thus some childish humor, occasionally.

"Airing weekly between 5pm and 6pm, the show was designed to fit comfortably between more adult focused shows such as Grandstand and teenaged focused shows such as Juke Box Jury ... Doctor Who was originally intended to be a family educational TV programme. Two of the original main characters were science and history teachers. A lot of the early stories were pure historicals with no aliens. These historical stories were phased out at the end of the 60’s as the more alien settings increased in popularity."
from: http://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk...

What do we learn from this? That the First Doctor appealed to all ages. Which is a historical fact. And makes the show a lasting success to this day.

For the Eleventh Doctor, I have two possible replies, both of which I would like you see refute.
1. There are cheesy episodes in his series, too. After his regeneration, when he tries out food in AmyPond's house, ending up with fish fingers and a bowl of custard, is that not totally childish? See video: https://www.youtube.com...

In fact it was taken almost identically from "Winnie the Pooh": https://www.youtube.com...

So, Smith's Doctor has that, too, and is thus no better.

2. If you consider this NOT to be cheesy, then you'd basically be saying that the Eleventh Doctor has LESS appeal to children, which means that his performance made the Eleventh Doctor LESS likable, and hence INFERIOR to the First.

For the Seventh Doctor, you already admitted that "The seventh doctor ended up been a cold, calculating, manipulative liar."
In fact, he STARTED OUT as something else: "Originally a man with the demeanor of an eccentric, light-hearted buffoon"

And that one was cheesy to boot. On his first adventure, he regenerated after inexplicably HITTING HIS HEAD on a console between episodes (what a cheesy off-screen origin to begin with), woke up and recognized his enemy, only to be knocked out cold and injected with an amnesia-inducing drug, so that he'd work for his enemy (see: http://tardis.wikia.com... ). This is not great story-writing, it's one of the oldest tv tropes ever ( http://tvtropes.org... ),so old that even James Bond had this happen to him in the book "You only live twice". He then finds a captured Albert Einstein (cheesy!) and defeats the evil machine by making it "backfire and explode because it could not handle his new clownish personality." (see: http://tardis.wikia.com... ), which is indeed very silly and shows that this Doctor was - early in his career - definitely very cheesy.

So, at BEST, both your chosen Doctors suffer from the same mistakes, but still lack the originality of the First Doctor, who delivered storylines even then considered very scary for kids, and with considerable depth: the Daleks, the Cybermen,

And soulful acting? How much more soul can someone put into a performance than he did in his passing words to his granddaughter Susan? See video: https://www.youtube.com...

And, lastly, I present a list of great moments from the First Doctor: a video with a list of the top ten moments, with which I quite agree. https://www.youtube.com...
This, however, is a bit longer, so watch only for educational purposes, it is not a vital part of this argument.

Summarizing, neither Eleven nor Seven hold a great, consistent advantage over the First Doctor, both suffering still from the severe drawback of not being original.
Debate Round No. 2
Madmanwithabluebox

Pro

I agree with you on many points. It is true that Doctor Who started off as an educational kid's show and that the eleventh and seventh Doctors have there fair share of cheesy moments. . But one thing a disagree on is that later incarnations of the Doctor have lost that special connection that you associate with Susan. The eleventh doctor's connection to Amy Pond is a very deep one as he met her when Amy was a child. This gives Amy a child-like awe at the Doctor because he is her "imaginary friend". Amy sees the Doctor as a dashing hero. The show takes advantage of this and describes Amy's final realization that the Doctor is not a hero in the God Complex. This makes Amy Pond such an interesting character. Amy had a constant conflict between two perspectives of viewing the Doctor: dashing, heroic imaginary friend vs the real Doctor, a dark and manipulative person. This sort of interesting relationship was non-existent in the Doctor-Susan connection.
BoggyDag

Con

I think that this is
a) not entirely true and
b) not necessary.

a) When the First Doctor decides to abduct the teachers in the very first episode, "An unearthly child", Susan physically attacks the Doctor to stop him from closing the doors and start the TARDIS, although in vain.
See for yourself, after the 20-minute-mark: http://www.dailymotion.com...

b) And even though Susan was generally fiercely loyal to her grandfather, the aspect you describe was very well present in the First Doctor's series, in the form of Ian Chesterton, who frequently was at odds with the Doctor, but ultimately realized that the Doctor was a good man, a brave man.

So, the aspects only shifted from one companion to another, but were always present and were always handed down from the first companions to the others.
Debate Round No. 3
Madmanwithabluebox

Pro

Madmanwithabluebox forfeited this round.
BoggyDag

Con

In good Christmas spirit, I will delay for a round, extending all arguments but not making new ones.
Debate Round No. 4
Madmanwithabluebox

Pro

Madmanwithabluebox forfeited this round.
BoggyDag

Con

I extend all arguments.

Also, I would like to point out that my opponent himself did NEVER choose a "best" Doctor, instead he was tied between two. Hence, his argument must be considered void from the beginning.

I turn this over to the audience.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by BoggyDag 2 years ago
BoggyDag
Why do many Germans still feel guilt about what happened during the Big Wars?
Why are many Americans still proud of JFK?
Emotion does not make things equal. If WE both loved - say - popcorn: would that make US the same person?
The Doctor feels guilt because these things happened in - again, stated specifically - "the name of the Doctor".

Why does the Doctor "hope" to be ginger? "He" doesn't. The Tenth Doctor wished to be ginger. Directly after his transformation FROM Tenth to Eleventh, while still in an unstable state of mind, the issue came up one last time. It has been referred to TWICE in fifty years. Ten other Doctors did not express any cocern or wish about being ginger. Which is actually a case in point against your argument. Ten Doctors had different desires from one (or two) others.

Suppose you move into an office owned by your predecessor. You see a nice vase in there and decide to keep it, deciding that you kinda like it. Does THAT make you the same person as your predecessor?
Posted by philochristos 2 years ago
philochristos
And why does the Doctor hope to be a ginger some day?
Posted by philochristos 2 years ago
philochristos
Then why does one Doctor feel guilty about what a past Doctor did?
Posted by BoggyDag 2 years ago
BoggyDag
Most certainly not. Regeneration officialy changes the personality. The Tenth Doctor explained that it's still like dying: one man goes, another takes his place.
Posted by philochristos 2 years ago
philochristos
I think it's an incoherent resolution. They're all the same Doctor!
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
MadmanwithablueboxBoggyDagTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
MadmanwithablueboxBoggyDagTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
MadmanwithablueboxBoggyDagTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture