The Instigator
tbg685
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Mirza
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Who owns the NUMBER??

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Mirza
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2010 Category: Sports
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,076 times Debate No: 11682
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (24)
Votes (4)

 

tbg685

Pro

I am the commissioner of my works softball team. A players comes to me and decides to pick #34 before the jersey's arrive. I put his name down for #34. About an hour later a fellow named Mike comes to me and requests #34. I inform him that Nick has already requested that number. Mike then requests #32. At that time Nick comes into my office with Mike there and tells MIKE he will trade his number to MIKE for a case of BECKS BEER.

Mike Agrees to this trade. So Mike has number #34, and Nick now has #32.

Later that day I found out that the last numbered jersey will be #33. Not #34. I inform both parties of this, Mike now wants #32 back. But NICK OWNS THE NUMBER.
Mirza

Con

This is not much of a real debate, but I will give my opinion on this case.

Summary of the story: A person named Nick comes to the commissioner of his work's softball team (the person I am debating with). Before the jerseys arrive, Nick asks for the number #34. A little bit later, a person named Mike also asks for the number #34. Since that number is already taken, Mike gets number #32, but Nick does not mind trading his number with Mike's for a case of Beck's Beer. After the trade, the commissioner found out that the last numbered jersey will be #33, not #34, which means that Mike does not have a valid number.

The questions that face us are: Was the deal just, since it was based on trading using a number (#34) that is not valid in this case? Mike wants the number #32 back, but now the number belongs to Nick. What should they do?

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Need for clarification
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I do not understand why the numbers are important here. Why did Mike even agree to trade a case of beer with a number of a jersey?

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Pre-solution
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Before I suggest what the solution to this little problem should be, the commissioner should elucidate this case. Why do the numbers matter?
Debate Round No. 1
tbg685

Pro

First , the number means a lot to Nick because of the following : Nick is wearing number 32 to honor my great grandfather. He was pilot in the war and one night his plane took on enemy gunfire he was able to safely land and upon inspected the plane it was discovered that he was hit 32 times but by the grace of god was able to live. So the number 32 has always been a special number for my whole family.

However, Mike wants 32 because that's Steve Carltons number. So that's why the number is significant

Bottom line, if you make a TRADE with an object that does not EXIST does that trade still STAND???

YES OR NO?????
Mirza

Con

The commissioner asks a simple question: Is trading with an object (the number #34) that does not exist still valid?

I will say no. If Mike and Nick traded numbers, but one of the numbers was invalid, then either none of them should get this number #32, or they should make another deal about it. However, since Nick also gave a case of beer to Mike, it should technically count as something extra. It means that it may be morally wrong because the trade is based on something invalid, but there was a reward for it.

I think my solution for this case is simply that none of them should get the number, and both should get jerseys of random numbers, so that is is justified for both of them. Mike got beer, but an invalid number. Nick payed for beer, but also got the number #32.

I suggest that both get random numbers, since both have gotten something equally bad out of it, one by paying for the number #32, another by getting something invalid.
Debate Round No. 2
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Mirza 7 years ago
Mirza
I needed clarification so that I could answer the question without any problems.

Also, this sentence "Nick comes into my office with Mike there and tells MIKE he will trade his number to MIKE for a case of BECKS BEER." can also mean that Nick wants to have number #32 and will pay a case of beer for it. Also, I wanted to know Nick did not pick number #32 in the first place, and it is totally absurd that this guy does not answer the question. Moreover, I answered his main question in my last argument, and also come with a solution to this. Why give him point for arguments? He made no arguments at all, but asked a question. I answered it, so what is the problem? He is just a disrespectful and furious person who vote-bombs himself.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
@Mirza:

It does suck that there is rampant vote abuse going on here, but two wrongs don't make a right as the saying goes.

I personally had no problem understanding this debate and will say that it was intended to be a real debate, the fact that you claimed that it wasn't one means nothing to me, I have been in plenty of debates where the issue was not 'pro' or 'con' but 'this' or 'that' which is what I believe to be the intention of this debate. I also had no problem understanding the issues you claim to need clarification on.

You say that it is unclear what stance that he was taking, it is quite obvious that he is advocating that Nick owns the number. That is explicitly stated in all caps in the last sentence of the opening round. You also claim to not know who was giving/recieving the beer. The sentence, "At that time Nick comes into my office with Mike there and tells MIKE he will trade his number to MIKE for a case of BECKS BEER." illustrates fairly well that Nick traded the #34 for the #32 and a case of beer.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
All of tbg685's hate comments have been reported.
Posted by Mirza 7 years ago
Mirza
http://www.debate.org...

Vote-bombing. And I'm not whining, you are.
Posted by tbg685 7 years ago
tbg685
Stop you whining dude...grow a set
Posted by Mirza 7 years ago
Mirza
@Korashk

I am unable to vote for myself, and my opponent vote-bombed himself and received whole seven points. This is unfair, just like with most of my lost debates (except the gun rights one).

I also clearly said that I won't make any argument before my opponent clarifies something for me, and he did not do that at all. Also, I did post comments here to get some answers on my questions.

Regarding the issue of the debate, I clearly said that it is not a real debate, and my opponent could as well have been 'con' because he did not say what he thinks is the best choice so that I could at least come with counter-arguments. It was just a discussion of ideas/suggestions to that problem, and I did come with one, therefore I have addressed the point of the debate. And if you read the first point made by tbg685, you don't really get to know whether Nick was the one that gave beer or received it.

I don't want to argue about this any further, since I have not voted-bombed myself, nor have I asked anyone to do it in my favor. The attacks/insults do not matter. I just tried to help and I could have answered that question instantly, but wanted more clarification. If it did not help, then tbg685 can just create a forum thread about this instead of a debate, which is not really a debate.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
So Ninja, you're awarding points in a debate because of somethig a debater did outside of the debate. That's called vote abuse.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
Dang, I did not read the comments, tbg685 should be banned.
Posted by Ninja_Tru 7 years ago
Ninja_Tru
Wow, the personal attacks in these comments mean that Mirza is definitely getting my votes. Tbg685, you really need to be more polite (or if not polite since you are debating, at least diplomatic). Mirza, good job keeping your cool. I honestly don't think either side did much for the topic (it was definitely a weird one to begin with) but reading these comments definitely move me to Mirza's side.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
How so, his argument was made in the last round, rendering it invalid. If he had some confusion about the debat. He should have asked in a message or in the comments before posting responses. He also did not really address the debate's issue in my opinion.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by philosphical 7 years ago
philosphical
tbg685MirzaTied
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Vote Placed by Ninja_Tru 7 years ago
Ninja_Tru
tbg685MirzaTied
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Vote Placed by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
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Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
tbg685MirzaTied
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