The Instigator
MassDebator255
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Lordknukle
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

Who would win in a fist fight...OBAMA VS G.W.BUSH

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
Lordknukle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/12/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,733 times Debate No: 18318
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (7)

 

MassDebator255

Pro

First round acceptance...thank you.
Lordknukle

Con

I accept this debate.
Since my opponent did not provide which side he is voting for, I will pick for him.
He will be Pro G.W.Bush
I will be Con G.W. Bush (I will be arguing for Obama).

In other words, I believe that Obama should win. My opponent believes that Bush should win.

He can start in round 2.
Debate Round No. 1
MassDebator255

Pro

Thanks for accepting the challenge.

Obama is 6 foot 2 and weighs 165 lbs (http://answers.ask.com...)
Bush is 5 foot 11 and weighs 189-195 lbs.(http://answers.ask.com...)

Bush clearly out weighs Obama by 25-30 lbs...advantage GWB.
Obama has a slight advantage in height, but not enough to make a significant difference.

When Bush was in the national guard, he had to do basic training which includes self defense techniques.
Obama never served in any branch of the armed forces.

Bush worked on a ranch most of his life, and comes from Texas...you have to be pretty tough to do both.

While Obama is younger, Bush wins in the experience department. Obama also smokes cigarettes, and would probably run outta breath.

Obama has spent his life as a limp wrist liberal, and probably wimped out of any altercations...
Bush is a brash, aggressive cowboy type, who probably would not hesitate to jump into a brawl...

Overall, Bush would win..
Lordknukle

Con

I thank my opponent for his reply. Onto my case:

The fact that Bush weighs more does not necessarily serve to his advantage. Since Obama is lighter, he is able to move quicker than Bush. He is also able to dodge Bush's punches faster.

Obama is higher than Bush by three inches. Three inches is quite a bit.
Also, his height gives him extra arm length.
Refer to this photo:
http://goo.gl...
Obama has considerably longer arms than Bush.


Bush also had open-back surgery(1). After you have back surgery, your back will never operate at 100% capability.
http://www.doctorzebra.com...

While Bush was in the National Guard, he failed his physical exam. (1)
"On August 1, Bush was grounded because he had failed to complete his flight physical" (1)


"Obama has spent his life as a limp wrist liberal, and probably wimped out of any altercations...
Bush is a brash, aggressive cowboy type, who probably would not hesitate to jump into a brawl..."

An assumption based on your own stereotypes. Not backed up by any facts.

"Bush worked on a ranch most of his life, and comes from Texas...you have to be pretty tough to do both. "
You have got to be kidding me. Bush was born to a very rich family. He attended Philip's Academy (Andover), one of the most prestigious high school in the world.(2) His father, H.W.Bush has a net worth of over $26 million (3)

"Obama also smokes cigarettes, and would probably run outta breath."

We are not talking about a 10 round UFC fight. A street fight is usually shorter than 10 seconds. (4) The fact that he smokes cigarettes will not make a differences.


As a person gets older, their reflexes deteriorate(5). Therefore, Bush will not be able to react as fast as Obama to physcial threats.

Conclusion
Obama would win a fist fight for many reasons. He is lighter, therefore he can move faster. He is taller and has a greater arm length than Bush. Bush has had open back surgery and failed to pass his physcial in the National Guard. Also, since Bush is older, his reflexes will be slower.

(1)http://www.doctorzebra.com...
(2)http://en.wikipedia.org...
(3)http://www.celebritynetworth.com...
(4)http://www.eastsideboxing.com...
(5)http://www.innvista.com...
Debate Round No. 2
MassDebator255

Pro

Thanks to my opponent for his swift response...

I believe it would be a close fight. Obama has a few inches on Bush, while Bush has 25-30 lbs on Obama...Most fights DONT last 10 seconds, unless there is an immediate knockout...

my opponent must not have been in many fights in his life...I have been in many...and though they don't last as long as some professional fights, they still can get pretty lengthy. Id say 3-5 minutes is more realistic...most fights usually end up on the ground.

But Bush is a Cowboy Rancher...when Bush goes on vacation...he hauled debris and did hard manual labor FOR FUN!!! http://kiwipolemicist.files.wordpress.com...)(Obama goes golfing or hangs up curtains.(http://media.photobucket.com...)

My opponent claims that Obama has a longer reach than Bush, but his link is invalid, so there is no proof of this..and pictures are deceiving.

My opponent also claims bush had open back surgery, but the link he uses to claim this is very sketchy( Dr. Zebra? Really?) this is the only part of the website that claims back surgery: "At some point, Bush has had surgery for sports-related back injuries ".....no date, no proof, nothing..

Even if he had back surgery, it hasn't been in the last 10 years...that's alot of time to heal, and as we can see(http://www.flickr.com...) Bush is able to lift very heavy objects, that if his back was a true factor, he would not be able to do.

Bush was also a baseball player. He is very athletic, and so a claim that Obama is quicker is unfounded.

Bush is clearly the more aggressive of the two. Anyone who dismisses this has not been up on current events in the last 10 years....Aggressiveness is very important in a fight especially in the beginning.

George Bush is friends with Chuck Norris, and have worked out together...I'm sure Old Chucky boy has lent a few pointers to Bush.

Ok lets sum up.....

1. Bush is more aggressive.
2. Bush outweighs Obama by 30LBS.
3. Bush Hauls Lumber for fun.
4. Bush is a Country boy Cowboy.
5. Bush hangs with Chuck Norris.
6. Bush doesn't smoke, therefore more lung power/endurance.

1. Obama has a few inches.
2. Obama is skinny and weak.
3. Obama is passive, not aggressive.
4. Obama smokes.
5. Obama hangs curtains.

The clear winner here is Bush. Hands down. VOTE PRO

VOTE PRO
Lordknukle

Con

I thank my opponent for his reply

"I believe it would be a close fight. Obama has a few inches on Bush, while Bush has 25-30 lbs on Obama...Most fights DONT last 10 seconds, unless there is an immediate knockout.."

Again I have to point out that those 25-30 lbs are not necessarily a disadvatage. Smaller opponents can maneuver and block quicker than their large counterparts. There are martial art styles dedicated completely to defeating larger and badder opponents (Ju-Jitsu). However, those three inches are always and always will be a advantage.

VERY FEW FIGHTS LAST OVER 10 SECONDS. Show me a website where it says that 3-5 minutes is how long a street fight takes.
Look at this website:
http://forum.rpg.net...

Most fights are decided within the first few punches and kicks.


"But Bush is a Cowboy Rancher...when Bush goes on vacation...he hauled debris and did hard manual labor FOR FUN!!!http://kiwipolemicist.files.wordpress.com......)(Obama goes golfing or hangs up curtains.(http://media.photobucket.com...;

For presidents, vacation is never about relaxing. It's about attracting popularity and votes. Bush does it by proving that he can carry small bundles of wood. Obama does it by hanging curtains in what appears to be a ghetto neighborhood. This argument is therefore obsolete.

"My opponent claims that Obama has a longer reach than Bush, but his link is invalid, so there is no proof of this..and pictures are deceiving. "

When in doubt, attack the sources.
Here is another website:
http://www.google.ca...
Obama has about 2.5-3 inches of more arm length than Bush.

"My opponent also claims bush had open back surgery, but the link he uses to claim this is very sketchy( Dr. Zebra? Really?) this is the only part of the website that claims back surgery: "At some point, Bush has had surgery for sports-related back injuries ".....no date, no proof, nothing.. "

When in doubt, attack the sources.
Presidents ofter try to hide their medical information to not seem weak.
Here is another website about Bush's medical history:
http://www.lilithgallery.com...

"Bush is clearly the more aggressive of the two. Anyone who dismisses this has not been up on current events in the last 10 years....Aggressiveness is very important in a fight especially in the beginning."

Physcial agressiveness=/=Emtional agressiveness

"George Bush is friends with Chuck Norris, and have worked out together...I'm sure Old Chucky boy has lent a few pointers to Bush."

Just because they hung out, doesn't mean the Chuck Norris actually tought him any fighting moves. By the way, Chuck Norris is overrated. He isn't as good as many people think.

"Even if he had back surgery, it hasn't been in the last 10 years...that's alot of time to heal, and as we can see(http://www.flickr.com......) Bush is able to lift very heavy objects, that if his back was a true factor, he would not be able to do. "

Yes, becuase it takes significant strength to lift a skinny and thin mountain bike.

"1. Bush is more aggressive.
2. Bush outweighs Obama by 30LBS.
3. Bush Hauls Lumber for fun.
4. Bush is a Country boy Cowboy.
5. Bush hangs with Chuck Norris.
6. Bush doesn't smoke, therefore more lung power/endurance.

1. Obama has a few inches.
2. Obama is skinny and weak.
3. Obama is passive, not aggressive.
4. Obama smokes.
5. Obama hangs curtains. "

1. Physcial agressiveness=/=Emtional agressiveness
2. Can be either an advantage or disadvatage
3. He hauls it for votes. Also, he isn't carrying a significant amount of lumber in that picture. A 15 year old would be able to haul that.
4. No he is not
5. Doesn't prove anything
6. Lung power/endurance doesn't matter since a street fights last <10 seconds.

1. 3 inches is a considerable amount
2. Skinny=/=Weak
3. So? Some of the greates fighters in history like the Shaolin Monks were passive. Only attack when attacked. Passiveness teaches people to be patient. How many of the martial arts Grand Masters go onto the street picking fights? None
4. Again, won't matter in a <10 second long fight.
5. Obama hangs curtains for votes. It doesn't represent his physcial stature.



Conclusion
Obama would beat Bush in a fist fight. He has longer arms, is able to manuever quicker, and is taller than Bush. Bush failed his physcial exam while in the National Guard. He has had back surgery. Also, Bush is 15 years older than Obama.



Vote Con
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
Massdebator is banned. wow
Posted by lddebater540 5 years ago
lddebater540
While I dislike this "highly intelligent being" just as much as you do, I think votebombing him as a means to counter his behavior is a bit ridiculous. Points should be allocated fairly and should be independent of an individual's previous debate and voting records. Also, while most of the "votebombers" can at least claim that they are trying to teach him a lesson, MassDebator has been votebombed in every one of his debates. At some level, he is bitter about the way he was treated and is thus lashing back at the community. Obviously, the solution is to become a better debater and not to votebomb every individual possible, but he will learn in time.

No, I am not MassDebator; you can check my IP address vs. his and can also look to the fact that he is conservative and I clearly am not (I debated a resolution last month in which I argued that property rights were evil.)
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
I was just kidding I don't care if he vote bombs me an he already has.
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
But technically I shouldn't so nvm
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
I can cover you also.
Posted by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
If he votebombs you I'll cover it. I counteracted all of his votes that changed the winner of the debates today lol
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
I feel like I'm being held hostage here. If I vote for Con then Pro is going to vote bomb the rest of my debates :(
Posted by Xboxlive 5 years ago
Xboxlive
Obama is black
Bush is old
I win
Posted by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
The position of the affirmative is ambiguous.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 5 years ago
GeoLaureate8
Neither, cause neither would fight. They're cousins and buddies and share the same ideology.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Troll
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Yeah when you have training in the National Guard I think that means you have army experience.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: National Guard basic training is by far the most important factor.
Vote Placed by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con provided much stronger and logical arguments. many of Pros contentions were highly doubtful and he failed to provide sources for a lot of them. All 7 points awarded as a bomb to the bomber.
Vote Placed by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Vote bomb (how does it feel to be bombed, pro?)
Vote Placed by curious18 5 years ago
curious18
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: seems like a spam debate, but Knukle made the better argument. Many of Mass's arguments were not based on logic.
Vote Placed by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
MassDebator255LordknukleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro is a troll and needs to be banned.