The Instigator
ianspigler
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KeytarHero
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Who's the better Captain, Picard or Kirk?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
KeytarHero
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,902 times Debate No: 17371
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

ianspigler

Pro

Since I am about to take on one of the most epic debates in history I shall impose these guidelines: 1) Nobody quotes Expanded Universe, 2) ABSOLUTELY NO TIME- TRAVEL REFERENCES! 3) Try to keep accomplishments down to a minimum. 4) Don't bring up Captain Picard's hair or Kirk's "lady skills".
KeytarHero

Con

Well, I guess I will use this round for acceptance. In the comments, I asked the Instigator whether he was arguing for Kirk or Picard, so I guess I'll wait until his opening argument to find out.
Debate Round No. 1
ianspigler

Pro

I dubiously apologize to my opponent, I am arguing for Captain Picard. I would like to start my argument by saying that Picard was the better gather of data than Kirk and this allowed for a more efficient decision-making. He also was a better delegator of authority than Kirk which led to a more efficient starship (how many times did Kirk have to fend off insubordination?) . Also, Picard was a patient negotiator which led to the conservation of time, energy, and materials that would have bee wasted in confrontation (I need not go into how many times did such the opposite). Now, I know what the voter is thinking "So what? Yeah, Picard had all these attributes than Kirk how does that prove anything?" Granted, no one can prove there a better person than the next guy (believe me, which I'm far from) However, we can prove who was better at their job. I pointed these things out for a specific purpose. I am arguing who is the better captain not the better man. Many people are good church-goers but that doesn't make them good Christians essentially. The same here, just because Kirk may have some better personality traits that doesn't make him suited for the job of captain. How does one determine who was better at being the job of captain? The answer is, who got a higher work yield form his crew, who inspired his men more, and who overall was able to accomplish his mission. Picard did all of these, whereas Kirk always hampered his crew ( For example: In the first movie Kirk let his pride get in the way of overriding Decker's decision, a mistake that could have cost the crew there lives and not only ruined the mission but jeopardize Earth) I would also like to say that Captain Picard never went on SNL and told fans "To Get a Life"
KeytarHero

Con

I don't see why the instigator wants us to keep accomplishments to a minimum, since accomplishments would help show who, in fact, is the better captain.

I will first make my case, then respond to some of my opponent's points.

Captain Kirk was a great captian, adventurous and strong. As a cadet in the academy, he was the only person ever to beat the Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario test (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan). He received a commendation for original thinking. As a cadet, he didn't believe in the no-win scenario, which only serves to accentuate his abilities as a captain later in life. He knew there was a way out of any situation, and he could find it.

Captain Kirk's era was a little different than Picard's. Kirk could get away with his brand of "cowboy diplomacy," but he also battled enemies on a much grander scale than Picard ever did. He faced a Gorn one-on-one and beat him by building a rudimentary firearm ("Arena"), he faced off against a giant planet-eating lifeform ("The Doomsday Machine"), and even had to find and return Spock's brain to his body ("Spock's Brain").

He was a stern but fair captain, inspiring his crew to be the best they could but also never leaving it unclear just who was captain.

I will now respond to some of my opponent's points.

My opponent presented very little evidence to back up any of his claims. How was Picard a better gatherer of data than Kirk? Under Kirk's command, the crew found a cure for a rapid-aging virus ("The Deadly Years"), managed to steal a cloaking device from a Romulan vessel ("The Enterprise Incident"), and even managed to locate the aforementioned brain that was stolen from Spock and put it back into his body. If these events don't require extreme data gathering skills, I don't know what would.

Regarding the first movie, the problem is that Kirk had gotten much older than he used to be. Some twenty years or so had passed between the end of the series and the first movie. Kirk was still a great captain and still managed to solve the mystery of V'Ger (with his crew's help, of course) and aided in the creation of a new lifeform. It didn't ruin the mission; in fact, they discovered what V'Ger's actual mission was and helped the entity to complete its mission.

Also, the example from SNL is irrelevant since it doesn't take place in the Star Trek universe. SNL is a skit show, and William Shatner was speaking as himself.

I believe I have successfully shown why Kirk should be considered the better captain. Please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 2
ianspigler

Pro

ianspigler forfeited this round.
KeytarHero

Con

Well, Ian has forfeited this round. So please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by BennyW 6 years ago
BennyW
This is the ultimate question. Personally I prefer Picard.
Posted by KeytarHero 6 years ago
KeytarHero
I could use a lighter debate than I have been doing. As was already asked, are you for Kirk or Picard?
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
"Don't bring up Captain Picard's hair or Kirk's "lady skills"."

That is kind of unfair, that is Kirk's Superman.
Posted by Minuteman 6 years ago
Minuteman
are you for kirk or picard?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Meatros 6 years ago
Meatros
ianspiglerKeytarHeroTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con brings up several good points and rebuts Pro rather effectively. Con bringing up the difference in enemies was powerful. Arguments to Con, conduct to Con due to forfeit.
Vote Placed by GMDebater 6 years ago
GMDebater
ianspiglerKeytarHeroTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF