Why GOD is real
Debate Rounds (4)
Matthew 24:9-10 ...'Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.'
This is being repeated today in places like Iraq, Iran, China, North Korea, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Egypt, where many Christians are being killed for their faith in Christ Jesus everyday.
If God were real, and could actually control everything that is going on, then why would he continue to let all of those people be killed in the name of Him and his son? If He was such a powerful being, could He not do something about the pitiful state of the world?
Now let's take a look at our government. They've took out just about everything to do with God.
They take it out and everything is going downhill. USA was built on God. If God is not real how was we made? theres a start to everything. There is a start to everything. If you read your Bible you will see that everything that happened in there is happening now.
Homosexuality would be increasingly evident: Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good. 2 Timothy 3:3.
Now before you say God is not real. I suggest you read your Bible and do your research. Just because you can not see him or hear him. Well it clearly means you're not saved.
You say that the United States of America was built on God. I disagree. I say that our country was built upon the backs of thousands of people, who wanted a new life, and new opportunities. They labored hard for hundreds of years, became independent from their mother countries, and in time, had a revolution. America was built on opportunity, and the prospect of freedom.
As far as how life began, I'd like to introduce the concept of the Big Bang. While scientists everywhere are still trying to iron out the details of this theory, it is certainly a better creation story than that of an omnipresent being. We know from basic physics that something cannot be created out of nothing. If everything started with God, than where did God come from? Was there another God, more powerful than Him? If that is so, than where did the other one come from? There are too many unanswerable questions when it comes to the Creation myth.
Unfortunately I do not actually own a Bible, so I cannot read and gather 'research' from it, as you suggest. However, I do believe that the Bible is a rather biased source as far as this debate goes. It's only evidence of God is anecdotal stories written thousands of years ago. If these stories are true, than why not the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, etc. gods of myth? There is just as much 'evidence' for these stories as there are for God. I can do you one better than research from the Bible. Logical thinking is all that is needed to disprove God. Take the story of Noah's Arc, for example. If a flood of such great proportions, enough to cover the entire Earth (which would include Mount Everest, a mountain over six miles tall), actually did happen, then there would surely be some evidence for that! Where are the geological, archaeological, and glacial evidence? And, if every animal on the Earth today came from a singular pair of animals aboard the (what must have been an insanely large vessel) then there would have to be a complicated genetic code to point to that.
While I'm tempted to ignore the part where you basically told me I'm going to Hell, I'm going to refute that as well. Without wishing to sound arrogant, I've lived a good fifteen years. I'm kind to everyone that I meet, and I work hard every day to excel in my studies. I don't judge if someone has a different opinion than myself, because I believe everyone has the right to have their own opinion, including on the topic that we are currently debating about. I volunteer at hospitals, schools, and day cares. I always say my 'pleases' and 'thank yous.' Essentially, I've done everything that the sacred Ten Commandments tell us to do, with one exception. I do not believe in God or go to church. You're telling me, that simply because I do not believe in God, I should suffer eternal punishment? Is there no other way to save my soul? If it was truly so important for every single person to believe in Him, than why doesn't He descend from the heavens and give us some real proof? Even if God was real, I certainly would not want to worship someone so cruel. Just take a look at all the people he would have killed:
Have to work on Sunday? Oh well, we're going to have to kill you for it.
Oh, you're gay? Oops, sorry, we have to throw stones at you until you bleed to death.
Yeah, you cheated on your wife. Not cool, but is it really an awful enough crime to deserve the death penalty? And even if it was, why do mere mortals have to do God's dirty work? Couldn't God just kill them himself? No, because he does not exist.
The Bible did not say that gays would be stoned to death.
Not every teen is rebellious. For instance I am 19. I go to the food bank every Monday, I graduated, I wasn't suspended ever in school, I just got done with clinicals for Phlebotomy. Oh lets not forget I have a youth group every Wednesday.
My friend he is a senior in high school and he is building him a house, does MMA, he is going in the national guard in July, he is going to college as soon as he gets back.
Oh and as you say that our country is not built on God, then how do you explain the Pledge of Allegiance? Look at the money.
God has sent signs that he is real. Too bad you don't have a bible cause then you could read it and see that everything that is happening in these days was predicted all that time ago.
Think again at Noah's ark. Animals had to come from somewhere.
Who is the first person in your family tree?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1 NIV)
Matter could not have always existed since, based on the second law of thermodynamics, if it did all the stars would have all burned out by now. Therefore, the existence of an eternal, all-powerful God is required as the 'first cause' of everything that exists.
The 'Big Bang,' of itself, was not the first or initial cause of the material universe we see today. Rather, God's choice (as the first true 'cause') brought everything into existence using the Big Bang.
How was grass, trees; etc made?
It has been determined that 99.9% of your DNA is similar to everyone's genetic makeup.
Oh and since you don't believe in God, you don't believe in Heaven or Hell either.
You are correct in many fronts: I do not believe in God, Heaven, or Hell. That was why I accepted this debate in the first place. I do not say "oh my God" when something good happens. I make a point to instead say "oh my gosh."You are also correct in saying that not every teen is rebellious. However, many are, and even those who are not are practically guaranteed to have a disagreement with their parents at some point in their life. God and Christian practices have both influenced some of our decisions as a nation, but the original purpose of America was not to worship God. If that had been the case, then the Founding Fathers would have set a national religion, like so many countries before them. Yet, this never happened, because it was this kind of thinking that they were trying to escape from. And yes, of course, animals did have to come from somewhere. But Noah's Ark is simply not that place. That 'place' where animals were first born would be the depths of the ocean, where one celled bacteria started to join together and after hundreds of thousands of years, evolved.
I am sure you and your friend are respectable people, and maybe your beliefs in God had a part to play in that. Many people use Christianity to help get their lives back in track, or feel better about their death. I had an uncle who had never believed in God before he was diagnosed with a rare illness- Only about one hundred people in the entire United States have it. He was scared, and not ready to die. He started going to church, and started to believe in God so that he could die peacefully, in high hopes of making it to Heaven. He passed away just last year, thinking he could go on to a better place. Believing in an almighty being can be healthy for some people. Drugatics and alcoholics often turn to religion as solace to help them get back on their feet. I am not encouraging for everyone to just drop what they believe in, because it is their choice and theirs alone. However, I would like to show that atheism is the logical choice, and I hope that the message gets through to not only you, but others on this site.
To answer your question "who is the first person in my family tree?" I would like to begin by stating the way a devout Christian would. Adam and Eve. Seems the obvious answer, does it not? They were the first two humans, created by God Himself. They had three sons, Cain, Seth, and Abel. But...Wait a minute. How did they have children? Did they 'reproduce' with the only other woman in existence, their mother? Or did God create more women for them? If it is the former, than certainly they have broken many rules that God set in place. Not only that, but their children would probably end up having three legs and one eye, or something similarly crazy and unnatural. You say that you have taken phlebotomy courses, than surely you have also taken enough of basic biology to realize this is not a safe or sufficient way to reproduce. If it is the latter, then how come it is never mentioned in the Bible? That seems like a very important detail to leave out. A similar problem happens with Noah's arc. Only so many people were on that ship, there would have to be interbreeding between relatives. Without evolution and the Big Bang theory, we keep finding ourselves at a standstill, a brick wall that is impossible to break through. The Bible does not answer questions that it did not have an answer for, and allowed it to be to the reader's interpretation and the hope that it is ignored.
Finally, it is without question that the Bible has been remade several times. The copies that circulate today have been edited and re-edited by kings who wanted to manipulate their people into following their rule. Aside from potential translation errors from Latin, to Greek, to English, and several other languages besides, crucial changes have been made so that the original Bible may never be discovered. There is proof pointing to the fact that the Bible was originally much more female oriented. However, as times changed into patriarchal society, many women were omitted from the text and the ones that remained became evil or untrustworthy. This was their way of showing that men dominated over women. We realize now that men and women are created equal, but that was certainly not the case in the time of say, Henry the VIII. The idea that the Bible was written by God himself, yet changed so many times throughout history, sort of defeats the point. We could never know exactly how much was changed, or if any of the stories held true to the original text at all.
Somewhere between 18 and 20 billion years ago, all of the matter in the universe was compressed into a tiny space no larger than the dot on a page. This dot spun faster and faster until it exploded, thus creating the Universe and everything in it.
There are many problems with this theory. And the theory itself still does not answer many important questions - Such as where did all the matter in the universe come from?
If all the matter in the universe was compressed into a small dot, what caused this to happen? Where did gravity come from that held it together?
If this "dot" spun rapidly until it exploded., then where did the energy come from to start the spinning?
Also, in an environment without friction you would have this spinning dot going so fast it would then explode. If this happened, then all of the particles and matter being expelled from this "spinning dot" would all have to spin in the same direction as the dot they exploded from.
This is a known law of science, which those who believe in Evolution cannot do away with. It is known as the Conservation of angular momentum.
This matter which is said to have created the planets would all need to spin in the same direction as the object it came from.
So therefore, all of the planets should be spinning in the same direction.
However two of them are not. Venus and Uranus spin backwards.
The Big Bang theory also ignores the First law of Thermodynamics, which says:
"matter cannot be created or destroyed"
Those who believe in the Big Bang theory are also either unaware of, or ignore the "Second Law of Thermodynamics" which says:
"Everything tends towards disorder"
So rather than the chaos (big bang) becoming ordered (our universe), just the opposite would be true.. And it is. Our complex universe is wearing down, and becoming more chaotic...
Paul was aware of this when he wrote his letter to the Hebrews:
Everything ".. waxes old like a garment" (quoted in both Psalm 102:25-27, and also Hebrews 1:10-12).
"This verse "anticipates the famous second law of thermodynamics, or law of entropy, indicating that everything in the physical universe is growing old and wearing out. God created everything in the beginning, winding it up like a great clock, so to speak. Because of sin and the curse, however, it has been running down and "perishing" ever since. Jesus also said: "Heaven and earth shall pass away" (literally, "are passing away") (Matthew 24:35)" - Waxing Old, like a Garment by Henry Morris, Ph.D.
Newton to Einstein insisted that biblical religion provided the key ideas from which experimental science could develop.
Since you like science so much.
Yes the bible has been remade but that is because it was wrote in Hebrew and they was translating it.
The story of Noah's ark is one of the most misunderstood in the Bible.
7 The Lord then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
Now the earth was corrupt in God"s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.
Looks familiar? Look at all the violence happening all over the world today. 2014 was a catastrophic year for millions caught up in violence.
Jude 1:4 ...'For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Yes this country was basically built on God. "In God we Trust".
God is being took out of everything just about, and the more we take it out the more this country goes downhill.
Luke 19:40King James Version (KJV)
40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. A little over 100 rock slide have happened in the last 2 years.
Oh and I would like to say when someone sneezes around you don't say bless you.
So thank you for not citing your source for that giant quote. I'll do it for you (http://www.angelfire.com...)
All of these points that you brought up are easily disputed. Venus and Uranus, for example, most probably spin in the other direction because a large asteroid ran into them and the force of it caused them to spin the other way. The energy from this 'spinning dot' came from all of the matter being condensed like a black hole. The first law of thermodynamics "Matter cannot be created or destroyed" does not apply to the Big Bang Theory, but rather to the Creation myths. God happened out of nowhere, and made the universe with the snap of his fingers. The Big Bang Theory proposes that, though the name is quite misleading, that it was neither "big" nor a "bang." It started out with every piece of matter mashed together, and spread out over time (http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com...) which leads experts to believe that the law of thermodynamics does not necessarily apply to the 'creation' of the universe.
The world is not becoming more chaotic. Everyday we are taking strides to make our lives easier, helping developing nations grow, organizing our own lives. Slowly but surely, we are coming to understand the world and universe around us.
Newton and Einstein, as inspirational geniuses they were, could not possibly know everything. The technology was simply not as reliable in their times as it is today. Gravity was only just becoming understood in Newton's time, the atomic bomb has been improved on ten fold since Einstein's time; Not every single theory they made back then is still going to be relevant today. Just as how it was the norm to believe the Earth was flat or the center of the universe, the Big Bang theory will evolve and expand until it is perfected.
"In God We Trust" only became the nation's motto in 1956, 180 years after our country signed the Declaration of Independence. (https://www.usmint.gov...) It would not be fair or accurate to claim that because of this our nation was "built on God" as you suggest.
Noah's Ark is not the first flood story. These are common throughout history, and the Bible was not the first one to use it. Egypt, Babylonia, Native Americans, and more had similar myths. Each had their own little twists, but they all share a common theme. To believe that one of these are true, such as Noah's Ark, than shouldn't the rest be true as well, especially when they came hundreds or even thousands of years before the Bible was written?
To be honest I'm not sure how rock slides have anything to do with proving God exists because it is a natural occurrence that has been happening ever since there was rocks.
In conclusion, common arguments that people use to defend the existence of God and Christ are illogical. They go against everything we have observed about the universe, and continue to observe today. Religion is a fall back for people, because it is traditional. Their parents and grandparents went to church, so it seems natural to devote every Sunday of the year to worshipping God. Unfortunately this is a waste of time, because God does not exist, and will not be able to listen to your prayers.
Thank you for your time. It was a pleasure debating with you.
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