Why are there so many churches, can they all be right?
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Debate Rounds (5)
1. I will show why there's so many churches and which one is the right church.
2. The bible shows why there's so many churches.
3. The bible shows one body.
4. The bible shows one faith.
5. The bible speaks of one church.
1. King James Version
1.Church, meaning the church Christ built.
2.Body, meaning the saved.
3.Faith, meaning one way of worshipping.
My opponent may argue that there's different churches because of the way one interprets the bible or that there's different ways to worship because of traditions, which I will prove to be false.
My opponent may claim the bible speaks of more than one true church to be possible because scripture say it to be so, and thus I will prove this to be false.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\My position is to prove against so many churches being valid, and also proving that the bible speaks of only one church.
Why are there so many churches?
1. Because of man's desire to do things his way instead of God's way
2.The bible states this will happen.
3. The devil wants to confuse man so they will end up in a man made church, in which it appears there doing God's will, but in reality, there not.
4. Ignorance of the bible is a major cause of sincere people being lost.
1a 1 Corinthians1:10-13, 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
2a 1 Timothy 4:1
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
2bMatthew 15:9 - But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
3a 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 - For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. (Read More...)
3b Romans 12:4-5 - For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (Read More...)
3c 1 Corinthians 12:27-31 - Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. (Read More...)
4a Ephesians4:5-6, 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism
4b Galatians 3:26-27King James Version (KJV) 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
4c Galatians 3:26-27King James Version (KJV) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
4dJohn 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
5a Romans 16:16, 16Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
5b Ephesians 2:20-22 - And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (Read More...)
5c Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build "my church"; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
5d Acts 2:47King James Version[KJV]- Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
King James Version Bible.
I have shown that the proposition to be false, that there is "not" according to scripture, many churches and ways to worship God, but one. I wait for my worthy opponent to show why he feels I haven't met my claim.
Most denominations of Christianity share the same ideal, beliefs, and practices. Only slight variations exist between them. The bible does speak on there being only 1 real christian faith, yet with how similar they all are who is to say which is the true faith? Who is to say if any of them are incorrect? The bible does not speak on the small and often trivial differences between Christian denominations therefore no proof can be levied on either side.
My opponent has asked what church I belong to, and since the proposition is to define why there's so many churches, and the fact being that the bible indeed states one specific church, I will prove my claim to belong to that one church spoken of in the bible.
1. My opponent uses words such as sect, denomination, which I will show the church spoken of is not defined as such.
2. My opponent may prove my claim to be false because of other names of churches mentioned in the bible exist, such as,
a. Church of God
b. The Way
c. The seven churches in Asia
The Seven Churches: Eras?
The Seven Churches: Ephesus
The Seven Churches: Smyrna
The Seven Churches: Pergamos
The Seven Churches: Thyatira
The Seven Churches: Sardis
The Seven Churches: Philadelphia
The Seven Churches: Laodicea
3. My opponent states that many churches share similarities in how they worship, I agree that they do, but I will prove this
to be of no avail when one is commanded to worship in spirit and in truth.
4. My opponent has asked what makes the church I have been added to more valid than others, and I will prove that my church is not only more valid, but the one and only church of the bible that one must be added to in order to be saved and to worship in spirit and in truth.
1a. Sect - A sect is a subgroup of a religious, political, or philosophical belief system, usually an offshoot of a larger group.
1b. Denomination - A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.
We are not a subgroup or a divided group. The church is one body only, of one faith, and only one way to be added to that body.
Ephesians 4:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
2a. All churches mentioned in the bible worship one way, thus, all churches are identical.
Romans 6:3-6 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
"Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God." (NIV)
"A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher." (ESV)
1 Peter 2:21-22
"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth." (KJV)
King James Bible
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Matthew 28;20 KJV, 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:3 - If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
Revelation 13:1-18 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (Read More...)
1 John 4:1-3 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (Read More...)
1 Timothy 1:3 - As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (Read More...)
Galatians 1:6-10 - I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (Read More...)
4A. The church of Christ can be found to be the church I have described above. The church of Christ was established on the day of Pentecost in AD33, whereas all others have dates hundreds and thousands of years later. The New Testament pattern describes only one way and only one way to worship, therefore the church of Christ is the only church spoken of in the bible as being the one and only church one must be added to in order to be saved, and to worship according to God's command. The bible clearly shows that it's not enough to have some similarities, as the bible as I have proven shows only one pattern.
Lets start with the church of Christ:
Definition: Churches of Christ are autonomous Christian congregations associated with one another through common beliefs and practices. They seek to base doctrine and practice on the Bible alone in order to be the church described in the New Testament.
Now my opponent states rather clearly that the Church of Christ began in 33AD (right around the death of Jesus). This claim is complete propaganda and totally false. Many Christian denominations claims to have origins within the original Christian movement. Yet- the only one who can truly make this claim would be the Catholic church, as these early Christians eventually became the Catholic church.
In addition Christianity had it's orgins more around the year 100AD, not 33AD. One of the great mysteries of history is that after the death of Jesus nothing really happened for almost 50 years. Christianity was no where for these 50 years. No prophets, no preachers, nothing at all. Eventually Paul began touring the middle east and preaching the story of Jesus (a very bare bones story) and began the Christian religion. These early Christians are often referred to as "Jewish Christians" because the two religions were identical, the only argument the two had was if Jesus was the Messiah or not. The concepts of saints, hell, Satan, holidays, church, and the new testament as a whole had yet to emerge at this time.
So these original followers of Christ simply went into hiding and died- then later Jewish Christianity emerged in the region - then later it morphed into Catholicism/Orthodox, then Protestantism originated from these, then from Protestantism we see the emergence of Baptism, Lutheranism, and many other denominations, then more recently we see the Church of Christ and other more Evangelical movements spring to life. These more recent denominations are part of the "restoration movement" in America.
So, the church of Christ is actually one of the newest forms of the Christian religion. It aims to follow the new testament to the T and due to that it claims to be the truest form of Christianity. But its origins are far from ancient. This is why there are no Churches of Christ in Europe, the middle east, or Asia.
Now lets talk the New Testament. This books is a very complex piece of history, and thousands of historians and millions of citizens have studied it intensely. Although it's nature as a holy text is difficult to deny, it is a politically charged work. The New Testament was written largely by the Catholic Church. It is not as if the Bible existed for years and religion based itself off it, its that religion sprang up and wrote their own holy text. So when the bible refers to there being only 1 denomination it is referring to the catholic church. This is there to safe guard against any splinter organizations that would undermine the power of the Church. Later this happened anyway when the Catholic Church was in a weakened state.
So I would say yes, they could all be right- It is tough to say. I would say that although your church has the purest teaching and worship of the Bible, it also has around 100 years of history behind it. Where Catholicism has almost 2000 years of history behind it and is the literal foundation of Christianity as a whole.
either by book, chapter and verse or proof from any other source was ever given to validate his claim
1. Now my opponent states the evidence I gave on the date of the church was "propaganda and totally false."
2. I agree that many denominations claim that there church was also started on the same date.
3. My opponent also states the Catholic church to be the "only one who can truly make this claim." He also states "these
early Christians eventually became the Catholic church." He also states that nothing happen until 50 years after the
death of Jesus.
4. My opponent also states that the churches of Christ is "one of the newest forms of Christian religion."
5. My opponent states no churches of Christ in Europe, the middle east, or Asia. The New Testament he states was
written largely by the Catholic church.
6. My opponent states that all religions could possibly be right.
I will show that all of my opponents assertions to be baseless by providing well documented proof.
1a. Not one mention of a Catholic church or there doctrine is ever mentioned in the bible, only the churches of Christ, Romans 16:16, which goes according to the New Testament pattern is mentioned.
1b.No one knows exactly how old Jesus was when he died on the cross, but he was probably 33 years of age. This is drawn from two main things. First, Jesus was baptized to enter into the Melchizedek priesthood. In Matthew 3:13-15 it says, "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
This is fulfilled in the Scriptures at Luke 3:21-23, "Now it came about when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also was baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." 23 And when He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of Eli..."
Second, most Christian scholars agree that Jesus' ministry lasted 3 1/2 years. So, 30+ 3 1/2 equals the age of 33.
1c.47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47, Acts 2:47King James Version (KJV)
1d. When Jesus died the New Testament came into effect, as a Testament cannot come into effect until the death of the testator, exception being Jesus Christ, who is deity .
1e.This is the time that the Apostles were given complete understanding of what Jesus wanted them to preach by the Holy Spirit, because at the time the bible hadn't been written, that was the reason for them to stay in Jerusalem until they received the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which gave them many abilities to continue the ministry of Jesus Christ, such as the ability to speak to another in there own dialect, which is called speaking in tongues.
Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman
Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more
important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:
Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world.
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians
worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord"s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata
Mara Bar-Serapion Also they were given the ability to prophesize and to perform miracles to draw the attention from
Acts 1:4, 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
2a. The New Testament speaks of one way to worship and Jesus and the Apostles only showed one way throughout the entire New Testament, so I ask my opponent how could there be many churches, I submit there cannot be, but one church.
2b. Matthew 16:18 says, 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build "my church"; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. This proves that one church, being Jesus Christ's church in which he states his church by saying " my church ", which is singular.
2c. I believe my opponent uses the date AD 100 because he fails to realize that the Apostles were given complete revelation to all of the knowledge we have in the form of the bible in which they were given by divine intervention, via the Holy Spirit.
3a. After the passing of the apostles there was an apostasy -- a falling away from the faith (Acts 20:29,30; I Timothy 4:1-4; II Timothy 4:1-4), which ultimately came to be known as the Catholic Church, with doctrines and practices not authorized by Christ and his apostles. In 606 A.D. Boniface III, Bishop of Rome, became the first "universal Bishop", later known as the Pope. In the Eleventh Century the Catholic Church divided into two groups, Roman and Greek, with the Roman Catholic becoming the greater of the two. Also I have provided additional proof via this site in which I have provided which explains in detail on when the Catholic church was established, https://youtu.be....
3b. This site that I have provided will in detail explain when and why the Catholic church started and that they do not abide by the New Testament pattern, http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org....
4 & 5a. I have decided to put these two assumptions of my opponent and answer them together since my answer will prove both to be false. The church of Christ has been in existence from AD33 and is still exist today.
To prove that my opponents claim to be false I will prove with well documented proof that churches of Christ existed throughout the world, starting with the seven churches in Asia, as documented in Revelation 1:4, 4 John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne,
There are churches in England even today and this will also prove that the church was not started in the reformation period as claimed by my opponent, as this is valid well documented proof which can be verified, at the site I will provide,
http://traces-of-the-kingdom.org.... This site shows churches of Christ in the 1400's, which proves the reformation was not the beginning of the churches of Christ.
The first century Christians used symbols to speak to one another to prevent the enemy of Christianity from persecuting them as referenced in Revelation, as why Revelation was written to the first century Christians to assure them that Jesus hadn't forgotten them, it was a letter of comfort to the Christians of that time. This is why the church was able to seem not to exist, because of the ability of those of the first century to conceal there identity, so not to be persecuted, so this proves the churches of Christ has always existed.
6. All of the above information proves that there is but one church spoken of in the bible, not many differing churches as my opponent believed to be possible.
All of the claims my opponent gave I have proven to be false with scripture, unbiased historical evidence, and with documentation via video.
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