The Instigator
JasperFrancisShickadance
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
patrick967
Con (against)
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0 Points

Why are you an Atheist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/3/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 685 times Debate No: 56003
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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JasperFrancisShickadance

Pro

Hi I want to debate you because you are an atheist and you said anyone should debate you because of that. No "first round acceptance." First please explain, in your words, the definition of 'atheism.' Here's mine:

http://www.google.com...

Then simply give reasons why you think atheism is...

something to be proud of
satisfying
valid and "obvious"

Me...I think that atheism is dumb because there's no point for a belief in nothing.

Also answer these questions, please.

Do you believe in Evolution?
Do you think Christianity is dumb? If so, why?
Do you have any enemies because of your atheism?

Thank you and I hope you accept.
patrick967

Con

My definition for atheism is the same as Google's. A simple lack of belief in all gods that humans have made up, including:
-Christianity
-Islam
-Scientology (very creative name)
-Judaism
-Hinduism, etc.

I think atheism is something to be proud of, just as a Christian might think being Christian is something to be proud of. I also think it's something to be proud of because asking questions is in your nature. When you ask questions and there's no answers (i.e.: Where did God come from?) you may realize that the only other place that will have answers is science. At least, that's what I think.

I have no idea what other atheists think about the satisfaction of being an atheist is, but I think it's done wonders for me. Because I'm not trying to live this life so I can live like a king in the afterlife, I can enjoy this one freely without fear of hell. "But where do atheists get their morality from?" Well, the police enforce the laws that prohibit us from murder. The fear of prison for me is what fear of hell is for Christians. Also, the thought of ending someone's life is just traumatizing for me. I don't understand it.

I think atheism (or evolution) is valid because it is backed up by real, scientific fact. Unlike a certain holy book or two, evolution has tons o' evidence for it, whether theists like it or not. Just a reminder, "disproving" evolution doesn't automatically make religion true. If scientists ever disprove the existence of god, then that doesn't make evolution true.

You claim atheism is dumb because there's no point for a belief in nothing, although that contradicts your earlier definition of a lack of a belief in a god. Atheists do not "believe in nothing." Atheists just don't believe in any religion.

Moving on to evolution. Yes, I do believe in evolution, I think you'd be hard pressed to find an atheist who didn't, but everyone has their own hypothesis. I believe there is lots of evidence for evolution, and you don't have to have "faith" or "feel it in your heart."

I do not think Christianity or Christians are dumb. I think the idea of a sky man who's obsessed with your sex life is dumb, though. Why does God care if I get rammed in the butt with another guy's penis? It's none of his business, I don't care what Leviticus 18:22 says about it. Not to mention, he did kill everyone on Earth supposedly (except for oh, 18,000 animals and eight people). How do eight people take care of so many animals for over a year? The ark would have to be impossibly big (not to mention built by someone who's 600) and if you were to divide up the animals equally among each person, one person would have to take care of 2,250 animals, and still have enough food to feed themselves for the duration of the flood. Seems legit, right?

And no, I have no enemies because I'm an atheist. If someone is my enemy because of what I believe and not for who I am, that person needs to see a therapist.

Thanks to my opponent for inviting me to this debate, I look forward to round 2.
Debate Round No. 1
JasperFrancisShickadance

Pro

As this is turning out to be kind of an interview, here is another question that comes to mind.
Why do you think belief in God is [ ]? fill in the blank and answer the question.
Now I will state the reasons I think atheism isn't worth it and why Christianity is most valid out of all religions and it is not made up.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are physical evidence for the Bible's accuracy.
Jesus Christ's amazing life on earth is like no other religion's god. Muhammed, Bhuda, or any other religion's god never sacrificed/killed themselves as a promise that human sins are/can be forgiven! No other mythical god had such an extraordinarily eventful life on earth. That's one reason why Christianity is so special.
Of course you don't have enemies as an atheist and it's easier for you to live without the thought of an afterlife. You can't deny that your life is happy as an atheist. Is this one reason you like it? (I call that "intentional ignorance"). Because I gotta tell you, Christianity is not that easy but I have seen miracles and I believe God is our Creator even though some don't agree. Call me a fanatic, because that's who I am! Why would I call myself a crazy person? Well, Christianity goes AGAINST the flow, it goes the opposite direction that the world goes (what I mean is that everybody else thinks I'm crazy for trying to live for a God we can't physically see).
Christianity assures salvation, unlike any other relgion. Christians, because of faith in what Jesus ALREADY did for them, know they will go to heaven. Because we have ASKED and RECIEVED Christ, we are not feaful of Hell (since we are also assured a place at the right hand of God). I see what you're saying about how we're trying to live our lives being good, but that's not how it is at all. We can't get to Heaven by acting good and "righteous." Christians believe, (the Bible says), that it doesn't matter how rich, how kind, or how generous you if you don't have Christ, because everything we do on earth fades away when we die. All our precious works and riches don't matter when we die because it all comes down to one thing: salvation. So we need to fully accept God to be in our lives, and once we have done that our main goal is to help others do the same. We try to love, and in this way spread the truth of Jesus because God's real love is the only thing that wins people over. Other relgions try to reach God by refraining from bad behaviour and acting more holy but because God is infinite and all-holy we could never hold a sinless life.
Think of it this way: what if there IS a God? What if there is a spiritual realms and we really were intelligently designed? How would you feel on your death bad when you onoy had 5 minutes to live..."Oh I'm VERY happy that I was an atheist my WHOLE life and I was SO successful and rich, and Evolutionism is 100% true..." Is that how you'd end up?
I think of Evolutionism as "disproved," in my mind, but that's NOT the reason why I believe in a God. I think of Evolutionism as the alternative theory to go to when you don't want to be religious or believe in a God, or you're sick of the thought of a God whom you can't easily see. But I also think of Creationism as a science that fully supports Christianity, where there IS evidence for there being a God, but remember that evidence is NOT the foundation of my belief. Science does not answer questions such as: how many planets there are in the universe (how big the universe is); things about humans like "why 9 out of 10 people are right-handed"; how birds know where and when to migrate; etc. But not knowing where WE came from must be depressing.
I don't understand what you said about 'when we ask questiona and there's no answers (i. e.: where did God come from).' If you're refering to 'things in religion that can't be explained so we go to science,' it's just like what Richard Dawkins once said: "...just because science doesn't give all the answers doesn't mean we go to a supernatural god..." I believe I can say "just because we don't know all the answers about God doesn't mean we go straight to science." There is more to life than science. Things we won't understand. And I do know 'where God came from.' He is the maker of all things, infinite, and all-powerful. This means we 1) can't comprehend His ways, and 2) He has been around forever. You might say 'if you can say God created Himself, than we can say the Universe did too,' but I argue that the Universe is not perfect therefore it couldn't have come together. The Universe is made up of physical, finite matter that has parts and planets which die out. GOD is made up of a different type of material which cannot be explained BECAUSE He is not physical. He is Spirit.
About "sky man." If you think God lives in Heaven you are correct but in the sky? No. The Bible describes Heaven as beyond the stars and out of earth's airspace. Greek gods were described as living in a celestial place away from Earth like the Bahamas, but as GOD is a spirit WE are called to "draw near Him" and He is always with us.
About the sex life you said He shouldn't be concerned about: if God is our Creator, and is Ultimately smarter than us, would our stubborn selves want to obey His advise? We probably wouldn't want to, but should we? We owe everything to Him simply because He's our Creator! So that shouldn't be such a big deal at all.
About the ark "conspiracy."
#1, there has been large pieces of wood 24 x 123 feet found, located inside glacial ice 320 feet from the top of Mt. Aratat, the historical spot where the Bible says Noah's ark landed.
#2, considering if every specie of animal put on the ark was YOUNG, it wouldn't take up as much space nor would it mean a lot of feed.
The next round please ask any questions you have about Christianity.
patrick967

Con

Why do you think belief in God is [ ]?" I'm going to fill in that blank with "incorrect." I don't think it's stupid, you believe what you believe, and as long as you don't come busting down my inbox/door/other method of communication and shove them down my throat, I'm okay with that. Different beliefs are what make the world a better place. I'm an atheist all summed up, for one reason. The burden of proof has not been filled in the 2000+ years Christianity has been around. The claim of a god has not been satisfied for me. For every argument a Christian/Creationist had, I've seen better by atheists, scientists, and agnostics. Not to say that scientists can't believe in God or be a Creationist, but 93% of the National Academy of Sciences are atheists, so pardon my generalization.

The Bible's historical aspects (some of them) are true, and can be proved by other sources. I'm not denying that you can learn some history from the Bible, you can, but the parts with "morality" and especially Genesis are pretty far-fetched. I mean, come on. A God with no origin just creates heaven and Earth in a day. Then he creates man from dust, makes animals, all that stuff. The thing I don't understand is if god created Adam out of dust (Genesis 2:7), then why did god need Adam's rib to make Eve? Also, there is evidence that Jesus existed, but none that supports the theory of him being god/god's son.

You are correct in saying that my life is happy as an atheist; except you are incorrect in saying that I am "intentionally ignorant." I could tell you more about the Bible and the Koran than anything except the American Civil War. I know the customs and rules of each religion, (including Judaism) and I hope to learn more about Buddhism. I am anything but ignorant about Christianity. I have tried each of these religions (except Buddhism) and I am most content with the lack of a belief in a god. It actually seems to me that Christianity would be pretty easy.
John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
There are several others, all you have to do is hate gays for no reason other than that it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13), and avoid all seafood without fins (Leviticus 11:10). Seems pretty easy to me. Other than all the other contradictions about eternal life and all the reading, Christianity is a pretty nice religion, especially because it has you thinking you'll go to heaven and be with your loved ones when you die, which is why it's been around for so long.

When you "help" others to "accept God into their lives," are you really helping them? The starving children in Africa? Does Jesus give out free food suddenly? I don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are helping me anytime soon by knocking on my door, wasting my time, and giving me a pamphlet that I can disprove in 10 minutes or less. That's not help. I consider myself a good person. If I go to Africa, feed the hungry, give clean water to the thirsty, give homes to the homeless, and teach them modern medicine will I go to hell? Just because I don't believe? That seems awfully stupid to me.

"Think of it this way: what if there IS a God?" Seriously? Pascal's Wager? If your god is truly a loving god, and omnipotent as Christians claim, then he knows what I plan to do in my life. When I do that, he'll recognize it, and when I die, I'll go to heaven. if he's actually not a bigot like a lot of his followers. Also, persecuting me for using logic and reason for doubting his existence is just wrong. If he wants me to believe, he should probably appear in front of me.

"How would you feel on your death bad when you onoy had 5 minutes to live....'"Oh I'm VERY happy that I was an atheist my WHOLE life and I was SO successful and rich, and Evolutionism is 100% true..."'
Well, for the successful and rich part, Bill Gates. Also, I don't view it as "evolutionism," I just say evolution. You could say that by my logic, you could say "creation" instead of "creationism," but I disagree. Evolution is not an attribute to a religion, nor is atheism a religion. I agree with these characteristics of religion described by
http://atheism.about.com....

1. Belief in Supernatural Beings
2. Sacred vs Profane Objects, Places, Times
3. Ritual Acts Focused on Sacred Objects, Places, Times
4. Moral Code With Supernatural Origins
5. Characteristically Religious Feelings
6. Prayer and Other Forms of Communication
7. A World View & Organization of One"s Life Based on the World View
8. A Social Group Bound Together by the Above

"But I also think of Creationism as a science that fully supports Christianity, where there IS evidence for there being a God, but remember that evidence is NOT the foundation of my belief." Evidence, in my opinion, SHOULD be the foundation of your beliefs. What's the point of living if you "know everything" and there's nothing to discover? Why is the Earth round? God. Any question you have that can't be answered by science can be answered with the god of the gaps. That answer is boring and incorrect. At least, we have to assume so in order to make any progress in this world. Also, creationism is not a science. Everything creationism has to offer can be and has been disproved by science.

"Science does not answer questions such as: how many planets there are in the universe (how big the universe is)..."
We have no idea how big the universe is, let alone how many planets there are in the universe. Well, if you don't know, go out there and count them, we'd love to know.

"...things about humans like "why 9 out of 10 people are right-handed"; how birds know where and when to migrate; etc. But not knowing where WE came from must be depressing." Where's your sense of adventure?
"...I base my beliefs on the information and the process that we call science. It fills me with joy to make discoveries every day of things I've never seen before. It fills me with joy to know that we can pursue these answers. It is an astonishing thing that we are " you and I are one of the ways the universe knows itself." -Bill Nye

"He is the maker of all things, infinite, and all-powerful. This means we 1) can't comprehend His ways, and 2) He has been around forever. You might say 'if you can say God created Himself, than we can say the Universe did too,' but I argue that the Universe is not perfect therefore it couldn't have come together. The Universe is made up of physical, finite matter that has parts and planets which die out. GOD is made up of a different type of material which cannot be explained BECAUSE He is not physical. He is Spirit."
So if he's the maker of all things, infinite and all-powerful, then he created himself? "He has been around forever" is not a sufficient argument. My friend Jeremy created himself. You doubt that, but not how your god came to be? "1) we can't comprehend his ways," So suddenly he can't explain his methods to the most intelligent species on the planet with 2.5 billion people following him? How does one become "Spirit?" Suddenly, an invisible sky man appears without an origin and basically snaps his fingers and creates Earth. Makes sense.

So, you say that the Christian god is the right one, and he is our creator, so we owe him everything. Well, I owe my parents everything now by your logic, because they created me. If their "advice" is really abuse and they tell me to jump off a cliff, should I listen?

Mt Aratat Noah's Ark: http://www.wnd.com...

Questions about Christianity:
Do you think Christians/Christianity are picked on too much? If so, why?
Could you give me solid proof of your god?
Do you believe in "militant atheists?" How far could they go to defend their beliefs?

Bill Nye quote source: http://flavorwire.com...
Debate Round No. 2
JasperFrancisShickadance

Pro

JasperFrancisShickadance forfeited this round.
patrick967

Con

It is a shame my opponent has forfeited. I checked both of my sources to see if they still worked, and I found that my Noah's Ark source was broken. Here is a new one:http://www.snopes.com...
I was looking for my questions to be answered and for a conclusion to this "interview," but it seems I won't get that. Oh well. Thank you for reading this debate, and vote con!
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by JasperFrancisShickadance 2 years ago
JasperFrancisShickadance
Oh yeah sorry for FF I forgot I wouldn't be available. :(
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