The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Lacrutos
Con (against)

Why can't christians take their god at his word?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 521 times Debate No: 107096
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Comments (13)
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backwardseden

Pro

First off the christian god has freely admitted that he is "evil" on numerous occasions. Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." among many other verses perfectly proves that god IS EVIL. So the christian god is evil. Yes, that's according---to---him. Its he that matters, not you. So why cannot christians accept the fact that their god is in fact "evil"? I mean what is so hard and difficult to understand about that? Nothing to anyone who is intelligent.

Secondly, then there's a whole bunch of other negative baggage emotions that the christian god has freely admitted to having such as anger, wrath, vengeance. rage, fury, jealousy... Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. And get this folks Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:" Yes that's right! The christian name of god is JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now how hideous and vile is that? So of course you are NOT IN ANY WAY going to take him at HIS WORD now are you? Why no.

Third, since this god has these negative emotions it proves ultimately that he is imperfect. Who would want to worship this piece of white trash lard who is imperfect with all those baggage emotions?

Forth, oh it gets better because this god in which nobody can even prove exists, its the wowzersville of belief that counts, neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going man for worshiping this god.

So do you as a person NOT take your friends and loved ones at their word? If you do, well good luck in not having any friends or loved ones.

* god is what gives people false hope
* god hates gays and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13 proving god hates and is evil
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him and thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5 proving god hates and is evil.
* god endorses slavery EX 21 especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting proving god hates and is evil
* god wants you to die if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36 proving god hates and is evil
* god wants to put you to death if you commit adultery LV 20:10 proving god hates and is evil
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil, thus proving that he IS evil
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as 2 Samuel 12:11-14, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, only to name a few proves god hates and is 100% pure evil.
* Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all tortures, all pedophiles, all sadomasochists etc etc etc combined. After all god knowingly created them which means that he is ultimately responsible for them. Its either that or god is not a god and lets them off the hook with nothing but a tap on the shoulder for their horrific, disgusting, repugnant crimes and simply god---does---not---care. Now here's some examples of god"s sickened, diseased, abominable atrocities for absolutely no reason at all... the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw) so who knows what the body count was there? 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? Nope.

2 Tiimothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

RULES:
So your job for this debate as Con is to ultimately prove that god's word is true and just at---all---times. Not just the here and the there - especially the being evil and jealousy bit. And most importantly "why"?

dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
Lacrutos

Con

You Stated: "First off the christian god has freely admitted that he is "evil" on numerous occasions. Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." among many other verses perfectly proves that god IS EVIL."

--- I can't see why God is Evil when he is only Creating Evil, In this Verse. Maybe you are not taking God at his word here and just applying what you think it means?

1 John 1:5
5"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

--- Maybe you do not know that Light is Peace and Darkness is Evil?

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--- You Ere in not taking Gods word seriously by not listening to:

Psalm 119:160
160"The sum of Thy word [is] truth, And to the age [is] every judgment of Thy righteousness!

--- That"s right it"s the Sum of thy word that"s truth, not one verse:

2 Peter 1:20
20"this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition,

--- You have not done an exhaustive search on Jealousy here but claim that this one verse is the - end all be all - by using your own conclusion WHICH also breaks:

1 Corinthians 4:6(b)
"that in us ye may learn not to think above that which hath been written, that ye may not be puffed up one for one against the other,

--- You are thinking above that which is written previously as well as here Stating: "Secondly, then there's a whole bunch of other negative baggage emotions that the christian god has freely admitted to having such as anger, wrath, vengeance. rage, fury, jealousy... Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear."

--- No it is you who hasn"t taken Gods word seriously and are applying your own thoughts into it.

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1 Corinthians 3:19
18"Let no one deceive himself; if any one doth seem to be wise among you in this age -- let him become a fool, that he may become wise,
19"for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it hath been written, `Who is taking the wise in their craftiness;'

--- Are you claiming to be wise by using things not in scripture to prove your point?

Define Wise:
adjective
adjective: wise; comparative adjective: wiser; superlative adjective: wisest
1. 1.
having or showing experience, knowledge, and good judgment.

--- Are you claiming to have Experience, Knowledge, and Good Judgement concerning all the verses you looked at?

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--- Here you claim Intelligence: "Nothing to anyone who is intelligent." (being you? Who opposes the Scripture you are presenting as EVIDENCE)

Define Intelligence:
noun
noun: intelligence
1. 1.
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

--- Maybe you erred in acquiring the Verses I have showed thus far and later in this post? Are you really claiming intelligence?

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--- Here is a verse showing you something concerning Jealousy that maybe you didn"t read yet:

2 Corinthians 11:2
2"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

--- Maybe you could explain what Godly Jealousy is? You claimed Intelligence on the matter.

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--- You subvert scripture again by stating: "Third, since this god has these negative emotions it proves ultimately that he is imperfect. Who would want to worship this piece of white trash lard who is imperfect with all those baggage emotions?"

--- No it is you who does not take scripture seriously.

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--- You Subvert Scripture again by stating: "Forth, oh it gets better because this god in which nobody can even prove exists, its the wowzersville of belief that counts, neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going man for worshiping this god."

--- No it is you who does not take scripture seriously.

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Romans 1:20
20"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

--- It is you who does not take THIS scripture seriously.

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--- You Stated: "So do you as a person NOT take your friends and loved ones at their word? If you do, well good luck in not having any friends or loved ones."

Matthew 10:22
22"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Romans 3:4
4"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

1 John 4:1
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

--- Being loved by men has nothing to do with the Bible and is counter to the evidence for those who believe. Believing what everyone says is also counter to the evidence for those who believe.

--- No it is you who does not take scripture seriously.

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You have stated numerous Verses concerning the Old Law and have forgotten or not "acquired" (you Claimed Intelligence on the Matter):

1 Timothy 1:9
9"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

--- Was the Law Made for God or the ungodly? Is it possible for God to break commandments to a law not made for him?

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--- You have used a TON of Scripture stating he "Hates" and "IS Evil" Equating it to the words Death and Punishment and have never shown how this is even a Rational Conclusion, they are not the same words!
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You stated: ""the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw)" (You Giving no Evidence to the contrary.)

--- You must have been there then, which is all I can assume, since you have left the issue with no counter evidence. Here is the Bible which I BELIEVE and you obviously don"t.

Genesis 7-17-19
17"And the deluge is forty days on the earth, and the waters multiply, and lift up the ark, and it is raised up from off the earth;
18"and the waters are mighty, and multiply exceedingly upon the earth; and the ark goeth on the face of the waters.
19"And the waters have been very very mighty on the earth, and covered are all the high mountains which [are] under the whole heavens;

--- How in the World can you use Scripture in which you don"t Believe?! And use it as your defense for anything is beyond me, but you Claimed Intelligence on the matter.
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You Stated:
"RULES:
So your job for this debate as Con is to ultimately prove that god's word is true and just at---all---times. Not just the here and the there - especially the being evil and jealousy bit. And most importantly "why"?"

--- Proving to you that Gods Word is just and True has nothing to do with you believing anything I say, but let the evidence stand as it will. You are only going to believe the Words of God by:

John 8:30-32
31"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

--- First you must believe on him to know the truth, which is based in Faith, and nothing I do here can give you any Faith for you to KNOW the Truth which is only met by continuing in his word:

John 6:44
44"no one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day;

--- You must be drawn to God like a Fish, caught and Drawn by Net. Really, look at the word used for Draw.

Ephesians 2:8
8"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

--- You can't even muster the Faith or Grace needed to be saved it's all from God.

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--- To Conclude this Segment:
No it is not up to me for you to know the Truth, you are in Darkness and the only way for you to know the Light is by God Dragging you straight to Jesus who died for the Whole World. First Believe on him, continue in his Word, and Endure to the End.

Here is where I advise caution to you because it is up to you now to prove to me using Scripture, WHICH YOU DON'T BELIEVE (or take seriously), claiming Intelligence on the matter, and showing me where I have erred. However you can go the even more dangerous route which is the one I would like you to go, being, Take Scripture at its Word.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Wow. You must be one of the typical christian idiots that truly cannot read. Do you know what "reading" is? You know. Words. Sentences.
I guess it must be repeated because your brain is too small to grasp and assimilate simpleton words so that your noggin can function properly. And I"m really trying to be nice here.
"I can't see why God is Evil when he is only Creating Evil," In creating evil, well THAT"S EVIL. Wow. Imagine that. Now tickle your insides so you can awaken to reality. Also did you even bother to look up the other verses where god stated that he"s EVIL? No you didn"t. You automatically assumed BY ONE verse, where there"s many as stated, that god---is---evil. SHEESH does your kind NOT TAKE GOD AT HIS WORD IF IT KILLED YOU. AND YOU INVENT EXCUSES, just as all christians do, no exceptions, none, in order for your fuzzy little god to maintain his showmanship. NEWSFLASH: It doesn"t work.
2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. (theevilbible.com) [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

1KI 22: 22-23 "And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee."
2 Chronicles 18:22,"Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee."

Jeremiah 19:3 "And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle."

Jeremiah 19:15 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words."

Jeremiah 23:12 "Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD."

Amos 3:6 "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

Deuteronomy 30: 15 "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;"

2 Kings 22:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

2 Kings 22:20 "Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.

JU 9:23 "Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:"

All of those verses show YOUR god"s pure 100% PURE evil. There"s really no other way of looking at it. And its NOT me. THis is well known and brought in by others. There"s no way I"m smart enough and knowledgeable enough to find these and bring them in collectively.

Moving on"

John 1:5 Well I have no idea which abomination version of which bible you are reading so is truly false so it cannot be taken seriously at all".
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
The bible doesn"t say AT ALL
"5"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

See that"s precisely why YOUR god would NEVER use text, the worst form of communication possible so everybody gets it wrong. There"s translations upon translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead languages with a 0% chance of you or anyone being able to trace it back to the original so NOBODY knows if they are interpreting correctly. And wow did you just prove it.

Regardless that verse is 100% false especially for children when daddy decides to rape, beat and torture his children by putting his you know what inside of them while punching them in the face for 15+ years sometimes twice per week as the children SCREAM their guts out but with NO FREE WILL to escape AND YOUR GOD GIVES AND HE FAVORS THE EVILDOER WITH ALL THE FREE WILL to daddy to commit his atrocities. YOUR christ had it easy to die on the cross for 17 hours tops. And the thing is YOUR god could have easily created peace, love, harmony, care, kindness etc. No. he chose evil, anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. All in which he freely admitted to. Jealousy? What from a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Even worse is this supposed god of yours passed down those emotions so man could in turn learn to hate with all the baggage that comes along with it that these emotions clearly are that this god drags around with him. Hey god, dump those emotions and how"s about thinking about peace, kindness, love, caring for each other, harmony etc? Nah. So don"t talk to me or anyone that YOUR god is "good" when he is most certainly not anything like it. Not only that since this god of YOURS has these emotions it clearly means that he is imperfect. Now who in their right stale mind would ---ever--- want to bow down to an inferior supreme deity bile god such as the one you picked from your closet because what else could it be?
Strange isn"t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu"s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do. Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord"s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god"s orders? Why? Why not?

OK I gotta end this until you get an accurate translation. Once again the abomination you read is WAY off.
Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
160"The sum of Thy word [is] truth, And to the age [is] every judgment of Thy righteousness!
Regardless is completely 100% false. Especially for those like myself who are intelligent and educated and do not believe in YOUR god. So let"s prove that to be false right now"
* god is what gives people false hope
* god hates gays and wants them stoned to death LV 20:13 proving god hates and is evil
* god hates anyone that does not believe in him and thus wants to kill them DT 13: 9-10 and 17: 2-5 proving god hates and is evil.
* god endorses slavery EX 21 especially 20-21 which is truly sick and disgusting proving god hates and is evil
* god wants you to die if you break the sabbath EX 31:14, NU 15: 32-36 proving god hates and is evil
* god wants to put you to death if you commit adultery LV 20:10 proving god hates and is evil
* god has freely admitted in his bible numerous times that he IS evil, thus proving that he IS evil
* god in his bible knowingly and truly hates children through numerous passages such as 2 Samuel 12:11-14, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, 1 Samuel 15:3, Hosea 13:16, only to name a few proves god hates and is 100% pure evil.
* Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan, all serial killers, all rapists, all tortures, all pedophiles, all sadomasochists etc etc etc combined. After all god knowingly created them which means that he is ultimately responsible for them. Its either that or god is not a god and lets them off the hook with nothing but a tap on the shoulder for their horrific, disgusting, repugnant crimes and simply god---does---not---care. Now here's some examples of god"s sickened, diseased, abominable atrocities for absolutely no reason at all... the great flood according to the bible (which never happened btw) so who knows what the body count was there? 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? Nope.

So if you want a continuing conversation, 1. get an accurate translation of your bible and go from there 2. pay attention to what each verse you incorporate says because it would obviously have to apply to the whole, not just a very small part of the whole. Then again 3. nobody has ever proved that YOUR god exists - a huge sticking point.
Lacrutos

Con

First off you stated: "John 1:5 Well I have no idea which abomination version of which bible you are reading so is truly false so it cannot be taken seriously at all"."

--- Well that"s because John 1:5 and 1 John 1:5 are two separate verses in two different places. Your entire Translation contention started on misreading a number. JOHN 1:5 is not 1 JOHN 1:5!

--- You had concerns dealing with Psalm 119:160, YES your contentions with Translations are appropriate. However, in dealing with Translations it is already established in scripture:

2 Corinthians 13:1 This third time do I come unto you; on the mouth of two witnesses or three shall EVERY saying be established;

--- Why would someone like you check with two to three witnesses since you don't believe what is in scripture in the first place.

John 16:13 and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you;

--- Have you checked with two to three witnesses? Has the Spirit lead you to the Truth?

--- No Translation should be fully trusted over another, it will be established by two or three witnesses, however it seems you opted for the KJV where as I used the (YLT) Young"s Literal Translation here, why? how? You should pick up E-Sword it"ll help you out a lot, not only can you compare different translations, it"ll tell you what is different concerning the original manuscripts so you can test the two to three witnesses and THEN with the Spirit you will be lead to all the TRUTH. However the Spirit is most likely a far off concept for you since most people state, its an excuse.

You stated: "Wow. You must be one of the typical christian idiots that truly cannot read. Do you know what "reading" is? You know. Words. Sentences.
I guess it must be repeated because your brain is too small to grasp and assimilate simpleton words so that your noggin can function properly. And I"m really trying to be nice here."

--- Yes I know what reading is however to equate, "Assimilate" as you stated, "Created" with "IS", which you have done, this is in fact you stepping over the boundaries and adding your own opinion on the matter. Your logic , if you believe it, must mean that you are Feces since you create Feces. This must be how real "Assimilating" works? unless you are ready to concede the "creating" means "is" argument I challenge you to start telling everyone you are feces to stay "intellectually" consistent.

You stated: "Also did you even bother to look up the other verses where god stated that he"s EVIL?"
You stated: "You automatically assumed BY ONE verse, where there"s many as stated, that god---is---evil. SHEESH "

--- None of the verses you gave say "GOD IS EVIL" you are only reading that in to it because that"s what you want it to say. How about we go through them one by one.

2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 ""I will raise up evil against thee..."

--- nope doesn"t say he IS EVIL

1KI 22: 22-23 ""and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee."

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

2 Chronicles 18:22 ""hath spoken evil against thee."

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

Jeremiah 19:3 ""I will bring evil upon this place""

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

Jeremiah 19:15 ""I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it,""

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

Jeremiah 23:12 ""for I will bring evil upon them,""

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

Amos 3:6 ""shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

Deuteronomy 30: 15 "See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;"

--- nope doesn't say he is EVIL

2 Kings 22:16 "" I will bring evil upon this place,""

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

2 Kings 22:20 ""all the evil which I will bring upon this place."

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

JU 9:23 ""Then God sent an evil spirit""

--- nope doesn't say he IS EVIL

--- See, none of them said "God IS EVIL", how can you make such a statement after I explained:
1 Corinthians 4:6b "that in us ye may learn not to think above that which hath been written, that ye may not be puffed up one for one against the other""

--- Want to know what is written?
Psalms 136:1 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

--- It states here he IS GOOD, you will not find a "GOD IS EVIL" anywhere

--- How dare you use Scripture which TELLS you not to think above that which is written and then in attempting to disprove it you THINK ABOVE THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN. See the big problem here is you DON'T believe anything you are showing me ,if you want to disprove scripture play by THE SCRIPTURE RULES. Until the scriptures state he IS EVIL I will not think above that which is written why? Because I take God at his WORD.

Call me whatever you want.
""typical christian idiots""
""your brain is too small to grasp and assimilate simpleton words"

--- If I have to be an idiot and have a small brain, as you have stated, I am fine with that. I never claimed anything except for taking God at his word, you are the one claiming intelligence and Big Brain-ess.

Beginning of your conclusion you stated:
"OK I gotta end this until you get an accurate translation. Once again the abomination you read is WAY off."

--- First, Let me remind you the "Abomination" you said was way off was YOU using John 1:5 and not 1 John 1:5 to prove that I made a mistake! I have explained simply the Translation matter to you and will again further down.

Continuation of your conclusion you stated:
"So if you want a continuing conversation, 1. get an accurate translation of your bible and go from there 2. pay attention to what each verse you incorporate says because it would obviously have to apply to the whole, not just a very small part of the whole. Then again 3. nobody has ever proved that YOUR god exists - a huge sticking point."

--- Not only did you have contentions with the SUM of thy word is Truth in Psalms here you are telling me to do exactly that. What rubbish!

Dealing with Part 1 of Conclusion:
It wont matter what translation I present you with or how to deal with it cause you have already stated that the "Translation upon Translation...." is the worst communication and no one should trust it. You stated "...with a 0% chance of you or anyone being able to trace it back to the original so NOBODY knows if they are interpreting correctly. And wow did you just prove it." Let me REMIND you the "And wow did you just prove it." is based on you not using the correct verse and ignoring that all sayings are established by two to three witnesses which is then enforced by the SPIRIT which will lead you into all Truth.

Dealing with Part 2 of Conclusion:
I am paying attention to each verse, it is YOU who doesn't believe to NOT go above scripture as you continually do when you apply your own thoughts and feelings into it. Oh, I see how you are equating the "does" and "causes" with the "IS EVIL" but when you use scripture and don't play by the SCRIPTURAL rules, of course you are going to accuse God of being Evil when it never states that. How do I know that?

1 Corinthians 3:19
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

--- However you do not believe this scripture either claiming that the wisdom of the world is superior by giving me your opinions on the matter. How do I know its foolishness keep reading its in Psalms 14:1.

Dealing with Part 3 of Conclusion:
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

--- You just haven't seen God by the things that are made, but that's just it, you don't believe this scripture either.

What can I state except that which is in his word:
Psalms 14:1a
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

--- Concerning Scripture Standards you have labeled yourself a Fool, your wisdom is of the World and is Foolishness to God. Call it intelligence or Big- Brain-ness the Bible has labeled you. Why would it matter to you? you don't beleive whats in scripture anyways.

Proverbs 1:7
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

--- Being a Fool You must therefor Despise Wisdom and Instruction

Romans 1:21-23
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

--- Being a Fool, You have changed the Image of God using he "Is EVIL", worldly wisdom, and made him liken to Corruptible Man, birds, beasts, and creeping things.

--- However, here is the beginning to becoming wise:

Psalms 111:10a 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:

It is still beyond me that you use scripture, which you don't believe, as your source for any substantial claims in your argument.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

OK then that would be my fault that I missed the verse of 1 john 1:5. But it doesn"t matter because it clearly isn"t true. You"ve got to be able to prove that the verses you present are followed and believed in by your fellow christians in which in no possible way can you from a completely immoral god of the bible. And they simply are not followed nor believed in. Especially that verse simply because it doesn"t take place. But again I apologize for getting the verse wrong.

"However, in dealing with Translations it is already established in scripture:" Let"s get something crystal clear" NOTHING is established in scripture. That"s because the christian god would never use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication possible. There"s translations upon translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies upon dead languages upon dead langanguages with absolutely 0% of a chance to trance it back to the original. So absolutely nobody knows if they are interpreting correctly.

- Christians don't understand the character of God
"If god is all knowing and he knows the future of all events and he wrote a book that can only be interpreted as if it endorses slavery and if its heinous violence against your children against your neighbors" how could a god be that omnipotent and devise a book where we can"t distinguish between the law of Israel and god"s law? I mean their interwoven where we have metaphor and fact and nobody can distinguish the two. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take figuratively. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take literally. Was it actually a tree? I mean come on. How can anyone distinguish this. I mean come on. It doesn"t make any sense. It doesn"t matter how its translated. It doesn"t matter what version. If it was written by an omnipotent being there would be ONE VERSION. And there would be only ONE WAY to interpret it because it would be written well." Aron Ra
Actually it wouldn"t be written at all. What"s wrong with your god comin" down and talking to people? "Hey you know some of that stuff that"s in the book? I"m here to correct it." Matt Dillahunty

"We have to rely on copies of copies of anonymous authors with no originals and the textural testimony to a miracle for example, there"s no amount of reports, anecdotal reports that is sufficient to justify in believing that actually happened as reported. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to clearly convey this to people in a way that is believable would not be relying on ---TEXT--- to do so. And this to me is the nail in the coffin for christianity. The god that christians believe in is amazingly ---STUPID---!!! If it actually wants to achieve its goal by spreading its word to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony, that"s not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify for a god would know this.which shows either god does not exist or doesn"t care enough about the people to understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now which of those two possibilities is accurate?" Matt Dillahunty

"If jesus and Muhammad and abraham and moses had never been born, which in any case I tend to dabble, if all their stories were untrue were suddenly found and everyone had to admit it some people I know would show panic. Now what would we do? We"d have no morals suddenly. What could be more nonsensical than that? As the matter of fact the position that we occupy would---be---precisely---the---same as it is now if none of these texts had ever been written, as if none of these lacerations had ever been made. We would still have to reason together about how how to treat one another, about how to build a just city, and about how to have irony and a sense of humor." Christopher Hitchens

Atheist Experience 21:49 with Tracie Harris zand Don Baker
Call starts at approx 47:30. Picks up after a long introduction 54:45 and really gets into it 1:03:30 - 1:11:30. Pay attention everybody to vidie #2 and how YOU as a christian can easily misinterpret YOUR bible which is one of the reasons why YOUR god would --- NEVER --- use text as a form of communication. Don Baker, one of the hosts here in the vidie also briefly mentions it. And he's 100% correct!

Now let"s move on"

2 Corinthians 13:1 This third time do I come unto you; on the mouth of two witnesses or three shall EVERY saying be established;
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Hmmm notice the use of the word "or"? Wow. So which is it. Two or three? See your bible in its own inaccuracies from a book that is supposed to be perfect and divinely inspired does not even know. Nor do you. I care about truth. I do NOT care about YOUR evil god and his hate, especially his hatred of children. Now we both know that your god does not exist because there is no proof that he does. It is the mere belief in this god that causes anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy, evil - all the things this god has freely been scribed to in his supposed bible. Got it? Oh and "witnesses" do not count because memory is not redeemable as a valid way of reliability.

Well let"s ignore and passover a few of your unredeemable paragraphs which only shows your lack of a tongue depressor on the vile of stale laboratory meatson the futile plate.

I"m also going to ignore your paragraph on your "CREATE" since it only makes sense to you and no one else. And all of the other verses ab-so-lu-te-ly show that your god is 100% pure evil and nothing but as it is your god that committed the evil atrocities and acts you sad pathetic s.o.b.

This debate is now over. I am not going to bite into your conversation because you are point blank as immoral as your god. And I never lower myself to people like you. I am far far far too good for that. Bye.

"When you start making excuses for atrocities you have removed yourself from ANY valid discussion on morals. When you say "yes the bible says you can own slaves but" well now you"re contradicting yourself because before I was asking if you thought the bible was accurately representing the mind of god, the will of god. You"ve got this conflicted mess of contradictions and you"ve found a way to rationalize them. You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing. So let me ask you this" do you believe that there"s an all knowing all powerful fun loving god who has an important message for humanity and he is so completely inept that his best attempts at communicating to people managed to convey the exact opposite message of what you think he meant? Now like are you the one who got it right? And all the people who authored the holy book and got you started that they managed to get it wrong? Is your god such a bumbling buffoon that he cannot state "thou shalt not own somebody as another human being?" or "please don"t rape the people and pillage the villages around you"" and he managed to communicate so poorly that it got written down as "Thou shalt be able to own other people as property and oh by the way go over there and kill everybody kill everything except for the young virgins." Its asinine. You cannot reconcile this." Matt Dillahunty
Lacrutos

Con

See now you misrepresent me concerning your quote from - Matt Dillahunty

"You"ve gone and looked at them and said "boy that one really sounds bad, BUT that"s what Israel was doing that"s not what god was doing."

Never did I state that God was not doing anything that he stated he was doing, nope not once. The only claim I ever made was I took God at his word, you are the one who is putting words in where words are not found like "IS". You think above the Scriptures and of course you do as you stated: "And I never lower myself to people like you. I am far far far too good for that. Bye." you think highly of yourself even though you are dust. Yes Dust would, while surrounded by Vanity, attempt to give purpose to anything they do or say, and then back to Dust they go.

------------------
You have claimed Intelligence

You have claimed Big Brainess

You have claimed "Moral"ness

You have claimed Wisdom

You claim to know the Character of God -"Christians don't understand the character of God" - who you state doesn"t exist? How are you able to explain something you"ve conceded doesn"t exist?

And now you claim All-knowing by stating:

"Now we both know that your god does not exist because there is no proof that he does."
""And they simply are not followed nor believed in."
""NOTHING is established in scripture."
""with absolutely 0% of a chance to trance it back to the original. So absolutely nobody knows if they are interpreting correctly."
"Oh and "witnesses" do not count because memory is not redeemable as a valid way of reliability."

I guess your intellect is more reliable than a witness?

Your intellect seems to encompass everyone who has ever read the bible, every translation ever made, all memories concerning the subject, and my own belief on the matter. What dazzling intellect you must have.

You claim to know something without ever seeing it?!

You stated:
"Well let"s ignore and passover a few of your unredeemable paragraphs which only shows your lack of a tongue depressor on the vile of stale laboratory meatson the futile plate."

How in the world do you know the contents of those paragraphs without reading them? You stated you IGNORED and PASSED OVER them? HOW? This is rubbish, I guess its intelligent to just assume what's been typed without reading it - you did claim intelligence on the matter. I wonder if you apply this concept when reading scripture, one could speculate such.

You stated:
"This debate is now over."

If this statement isn't just a part of summing up what you believe I don"t know what is. There is still time for the debate, obviously, it has not ended. Yes you can choose not to reply, or ignore everything that happens but there is still a timer ticking. Well unless you are typing to me from the future, I mean, might as well claim All-presence while you are at it.

---------------------
You know you conveniently skipped over a vital issue in my last debate, maybe I should of applied more time to it? This being the SPIRIT here Ill quote what I stated:

"John 16:13 and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you;

--- Have you checked with two to three witnesses? Has the Spirit lead you to the Truth?"

Oh your contentions started and stopped at witnesses but you never touched the Spirit. Need to know what the Difference between the old and new testament laws are? Do all of that plus be led by the Spirit. Need to know the difference between a real tree and a spiritual tree? Do all of that plus be led by the Spirit. Need to know the truth between translations? Do all that plus be led by the Spirit.

But why should I be discontent with your response, this is possibly one of those Paragraphs you skipped over and ignored.

------------------
You stated:
"You"ve got to be able to prove that the verses you present are followed and believed in by your fellow christians""

I am honestly not sure how to tackle such a request, maybe my response should just be - you"ve got to be able to prove that the evidence you give for God not existing is followed and believed by your fellow atheist? But that"s not a real answer.

Nope, I would never put such a burden on you but I will ask that you just look into the matter. I mean I have no way of contacting every Christian out there. Do you have a way of contacting every atheist? (Might as well claim All-presence while you are at it)

-----------------
Since you have not been able to give me a question to look forward to I will just state that no it is I who is taking God at his word. You are still applying things that are not written and at the same time you don"t believe any of it.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lacrutos 4 months ago
Lacrutos
Thanks for a heads up, I was just really excited to do my first debate and it never ended. To bad it doesn't just count down until its completed.
Posted by kwagga_la 4 months ago
kwagga_la
It's stuck because Pro has the strange perception that he wins when he steps out on a debate. Watching the links he posts, it's clear he got this from the atheist experience where they cut of callers when the caller disagree or make an argument. Then when the caller is offline they tell the callers they are wrong - always very strange why they could not do this while the caller was on the line. Like Bruce Lee said, sticks do not hit back, to which I add, and don't win the fight either.
Posted by Lacrutos 5 months ago
Lacrutos
Why is this debate stuck in the forfeit round?
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
@ Nathaniel_B - Not only that but why was there only ONE jesus. Seems logical and with common sense that god if he wanted to communicate his message would have more than one jesus. He'd have hundreds, thousands or even millions. And they'd all be communicating the same message. AND they'd most certainly NOT be stuck in one little splatch of land. To only have ONE jesus to have a good billion people fight over this jesus, the most fought after figugure in history, shows that the god of the bible clearly is not a god.
Posted by Nathaniel_B 5 months ago
Nathaniel_B
Always wondered myself why Jesus is portrayed as a White man. How the hell did they know the Jesus character was White? F religion!
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
It doesn"t make any sense. It doesn"t matter how its translated. It doesn"t matter what version. If it was written by an omnipotent being there would be ONE VERSION. And there would be only ONE WAY to interpret it because it would be written well." Aron Ra
Actually it wouldn"t be written at all. What"s wrong with your god comin" down and talking to people? "Hey you know some of that stuff that"s in the book? I"m here to correct it." Matt Dillahunty

"We have to rely on copies of copies of anonymous authors with no originals and the textural testimony to a miracle for example, there"s no amount of reports, anecdotal reports that is sufficient to justify in believing that actually happened as reported. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to clearly convey this to people in a way that is believable would not be relying on ---TEXT--- to do so. And this to me is the nail in the coffin for christianity. The god that christians believe in is amazingly ---STUPID---!!! If it actually wants to achieve its goal by spreading its word to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony, that"s not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify for a god would know this.which shows either god does not exist or doesn"t care enough about the people to understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now which of those two possibilities is accurate?" Matt Dillahunty
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
I'm not going to argue with a 14 year old child who clearly knows nothing about evolution as some of it is proven fact especially antibiotic microbes evolve daily so look up the definition of "superbugs". And absolutely NOTHING from your god is proven true as faith is not a pathway to truth.

"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, judaism, any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, the most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence?" Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence." Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, and deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong." Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins

Now would YOUR supposed god EVER use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible.
"If god is all knowing and he knows the future of all events and he wrote a book that can only be interpreted as if it endorses slavery and if its heinous violence against your children against your neighbors" how could a god be that omnipotent and devise a book where we can"t distinguish between the law of Israel and god"s law? I mean their interwoven where we have metaphor and fact and nobody can distinguish the two. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take figuratively. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take literally. Was it actually a tree? I mean come on. How can anyone distinguish this. I mean come on
Posted by backwardseden 5 months ago
backwardseden
@MR.PRESIDENTGETDOWN - You are only 14 and you clearly do not know any better from you head to your chin and are brainwashed. Be that as it may you cannot prove a single word you say and lands you into a world of chaos at best. "God created evil and is not evil." makes no sense whatsoever. You just proved he is evil. " he knows all routes the could take" then people do not have free will by your very own definition. Why don't you read the Old testament? I have read the ignorant Net Testament. Have you? Obviously not. Gere's a video for you to watch because there's almost no such thing as being a christian. Certainly you are not. - Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus?
Posted by MR.PRESIDENTGETDOWN 5 months ago
MR.PRESIDENTGETDOWN
And evolution is not a proven fact.
Posted by MR.PRESIDENTGETDOWN 5 months ago
MR.PRESIDENTGETDOWN
Also you can"t prove God exists or the Bible is completely true, but many scientists use it from a historical stand point that aren"t Christian ex. APHG has some mentions of when groups of people were created cited by the Bible.
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