The Instigator
TheKamikazeMonkeys
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Vongalaxy
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Why do people complaint about objectification of any gender in videogames? Seriously?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2017 Category: Games
Updated: 4 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 185 times Debate No: 105550
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

TheKamikazeMonkeys

Pro

I don't know if it's allowed to discuss about topics that might be a little bit controverse and polemical and subjective to other people, so If it is not permited, then I need answers if this topic is permited to discuss here in this group or NOT. I don't know if you know much about fictional characters, but there is an issue that I would like to discuss with you to see what is your opinion about fictional characters and the objectification. Well here it goes... There is a videogame character that I love besides her look. Oh, when I mentioned "her", yes, it's a female character. And is a fighting game character. I just love her moveset, techniques and personality besides her phisical look, but I often hear people that never played a videogame in their lives that say that "she is too oversexualized" or "She's too objectified". That kinds of opinions are so wrong and strange. So I maded a research about the objectification and fictional characters (in therms of design and appearance). So I found an article that sounded so well right. Even I started thinking: "Then if she choosen to wear that kinds of cloth for her own reason or free will?" Then I founded an answer for that too. So I copypasted the whole article on a forum and people do agree with me. (And I altered some words to complete my whole opinion). So here is what I had written for supporting the article and copypasted from some articles: (Before reading, just make sure you are reading this with more attention, so you will understand what is my opinion before judging and read the whole giatn text incoming): Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames) Damn, I just love the character the way she is, not giving about her moves and her outfit Now, to the ignorant angry feminists and ignorant SJW's to stop this hate breed on r.mika: Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames)
Objectification is a tricky and, obviously, subjective and polemical issue. Objectification is the process of turning a person into an item, sometimes for sexual reasons. Although this is kind of awkward, because characters in videogames are not people, and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term. Under the definition of objectification, all main characters are objectified as being acted upon by the player with a controller. Another issue comes from sexual objectification in specific. So long as one does not believe there is anything wrong with the portrayal of the human body (which is why these games are rated M, so kids do not play) why would anyone have an issue with scantily clad characters? Since we are talking about videogames in particular, these characters exist in a fantasy realm that is not meant to simulate reality, and is actually meant as an escape from reality. So in a fantasy realm of people with superpowers, heightened abilities, or huge technological advancements, one would not expect such characters to conform to the notion of reality, especially when it comes to their portrayal as human beings. And to top it all off, objectification is not necessarily an issue of gender, many male and female characters have been seen as stark naked (Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2, Dante from the new DMC and Sherry from Resident Evil 6), overtly muscular (Flay from Mana Khemia and Barret from Final Fantasy 7, even some male characters in SF franchise and Jherii Gallo from dead rising), have ab windows (Gunvolt, Tales of the Abyss, ), or have overtly tight clothing (Duke Nukem and Nina and Hwoarang from Tekken) and half naked (which is r.mika's case, even chun-li, cammy, poison and some mortal kombat female characters such as mileena, kitana and so on) and massive breasts (r.mika and laura from street fighter and Kira from Mortal Kombat Deception/unchained). How one may say that these artists did not do this explicitly as objectification, but even so, it is the same result, despite the reasoning behind it. Which means that although many female characters are "objectified" under the loose definition placed with the word, many male characters are too under the same definition. But does it matter? In my opinion, no. Because just as games are not known to cause violence, there is no evidence that videogames cause sexism, or issues in self esteem. Videogame characters live in a fantasy world that does not, and should not, simulate our own reality. Besides, there is nothing wrong with the human body, and if the game creator wants to make a game with stark naked characters, that"s their call as game creators, and if not, than so be it. It"s not up to us as consumers of the media to force game creators to conform to our liking, it is our duty as individuals to decide whether or not we like a game, and rate it like that, or refuse to purchase it altogether. The human body is not a bad thing, so let"s not treat it as such, even if it has enhanced features. Remember, this medium is supposed to allow us to escape reality and live in a fantasy world, not the other way around.A279;
Vongalaxy

Con

This looks too much of a rant but I will try to answer your question in the title anyway. Putting aside what the too-easily-offended people think is "objectification", true objectification of any group including gender even in fictional media isn't really healthy. True objectification of any gender in video games barely exist; objectification is "degrading someone to the status of mere objects". Saying scantily clad women are objectifying them is just ignorance. True objectifying in video games would be something along the lines of a game about trading black slaves or female prostitutes which treat them as objects. This would be a problem because video games is a large part of modern society and it influences us. Imagine if 95% of all video games "objectify" women and have them play the stereotype weak role like some 1960s sitcoms, It would influence people to think females are inferior on some levels because every medium affects our thoughts on some level. Not to mention how boring it is and how girls wouldn't be able to enjoy video games as much.

Now that I got over why objectification of any gender is bad, let's talk about what real video games are about. Video games with sexy women or men aren't objectifying them, period. Humans are simply drawn to sexiness on an instinct level and game publishers know that. It doesn't help that the majority of people who pay for the games are straight males whom they obviously target if they use their brains. You don't see the so called feminists complained about magazines with half naked men on them or spider man's tight booty in the Spider Man games (I think we can all appreciate the tight booty
of spooder even if you are not attracted to men). Sexy women is just an artistic choice or a smart choice for profit and most of them are not objectifying any group of people.

Getting to your question, people complain about "objectification" in modern video games (mostly some particular modern feminists) because it is an easy target for them and they don't like what they see. Sexism doesn't really exist as much in modern society so they need to look for something. They looked at video games and didn't like what they see so they have to make it an issue. There is an interview of a woman complaining how air conditioners are "sexist" because it is too cold for them (just google it if you don't know about it). Why is it that she complains about it and claim it "sexist"? Because she doesn't like the cold so she find ways to attack it and change it.

Borderline, we all complain about stuff we don't like, imagine if homework is tied to a similar issue to sexism, I am sure students would start complaining about them and do some dumb bs. People complain about video games because they see something they don't like and can channel it to what they think is a greater cause.
Debate Round No. 1
TheKamikazeMonkeys

Pro

I don't know if it's allowed to discuss about topics that might be a little bit controverse and polemical and subjective to other people, so If it is not permited, then I need answers if this topic is permited to discuss here in this group or NOT. I don't know if you know much about fictional characters, but there is an issue that I would like to discuss with you to see what is your opinion about fictional characters and the objectification. Well here it goes... There is a videogame character that I love besides her look. Oh, when I mentioned "her", yes, it's a female character. And is a fighting game character. I just love her moveset, techniques and personality besides her phisical look, but I often hear people that never played a videogame in their lives that say that "she is too oversexualized" or "She's too objectified". That kinds of opinions are so wrong and strange. So I maded a research about the objectification and fictional characters (in therms of design and appearance). So I found an article that sounded so well right. Even I started thinking: "Then if she choosen to wear that kinds of cloth for her own reason or free will?" Then I founded an answer for that too. So I copypasted the whole article on a forum and people do agree with me. (And I altered some words to complete my whole opinion). So here is what I had written for supporting the article and copypasted from some articles: (Before reading, just make sure you are reading this with more attention, so you will understand what is my opinion before judging and read the whole giatn text incoming): Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames) Damn, I just love the character the way she is, not giving about her moves and her outfit Now, to the ignorant angry feminists and ignorant SJW's to stop this hate breed on r.mika: Here is the reason why objectification doesn't matter or why a videogame characters cannot be objectified because they are not people and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term (but still, any fictional character has free will on what he wants to eat wear or doing something). (or in other words, mainly because since they are, obviously, purely fictional and they don't reflect reality outside videogames)
Objectification is a tricky and, obviously, subjective and polemical issue. Objectification is the process of turning a person into an item, sometimes for sexual reasons. Although this is kind of awkward, because characters in videogames are not people, and thus cannot be objectified in the same qualitative notion that is suggested by the term. Under the definition of objectification, all main characters are objectified as being acted upon by the player with a controller. Another issue comes from sexual objectification in specific. So long as one does not believe there is anything wrong with the portrayal of the human body (which is why these games are rated M, so kids do not play) why would anyone have an issue with scantily clad characters? Since we are talking about videogames in particular, these characters exist in a fantasy realm that is not meant to simulate reality, and is actually meant as an escape from reality. So in a fantasy realm of people with superpowers, heightened abilities, or huge technological advancements, one would not expect such characters to conform to the notion of reality, especially when it comes to their portrayal as human beings. And to top it all off, objectification is not necessarily an issue of gender, many male and female characters have been seen as stark naked (Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2, Dante from the new DMC and Sherry from Resident Evil 6), overtly muscular (Flay from Mana Khemia and Barret from Final Fantasy 7, even some male characters in SF franchise and Jherii Gallo from dead rising), have ab windows (Gunvolt, Tales of the Abyss, ), or have overtly tight clothing (Duke Nukem and Nina and Hwoarang from Tekken) and half naked (which is r.mika's case, even chun-li, cammy, poison and some mortal kombat female characters such as mileena, kitana and so on) and massive breasts (r.mika and laura from street fighter and Kira from Mortal Kombat Deception/unchained). How one may say that these artists did not do this explicitly as objectification, but even so, it is the same result, despite the reasoning behind it. Which means that although many female characters are "objectified" under the loose definition placed with the word, many male characters are too under the same definition. But does it matter? In my opinion, no. Because just as games are not known to cause violence, there is no evidence that videogames cause sexism, or issues in self esteem. Videogame characters live in a fantasy world that does not, and should not, simulate our own reality. Besides, there is nothing wrong with the human body, and if the game creator wants to make a game with stark naked characters, that"s their call as game creators, and if not, than so be it. It"s not up to us as consumers of the media to force game creators to conform to our liking, it is our duty as individuals to decide whether or not we like a game, and rate it like that, or refuse to purchase it altogether. The human body is not a bad thing, so let"s not treat it as such, even if it has enhanced features. Remember, this medium is supposed to allow us to escape reality and live in a fantasy world, not the other way around.A279;
Debate Round No. 2
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by TheKamikazeMonkeys 2 days ago
TheKamikazeMonkeys
Guys, I just posted an opinion with my other account related about this debate. I hope yall to participate in my opinion :) ---> http://www.debate.org...
Posted by PowerPikachu21 2 days ago
PowerPikachu21
I've played many MMOs, and there's the classic "Female Tutorial" in most of the ones I've played. They don't always wear two pieces (sometimes armor, I think), though I sometimes just greet them, hoping for a male tutorial some day as a change of pace.

Though I agree the female would be more appealing, just that the males aren't unappealing either.
Posted by PointyDelta 5 days ago
PointyDelta
Pleb, I'm interested. Make the debate and if the definitions and rules are good enough I'll do it.
Posted by bigwigaustin 5 days ago
bigwigaustin
The Con really needs to learn to use paragraphs.
Posted by Plebidise 5 days ago
Plebidise
Also Delta, it would be interesting if you could debate me on the portrayal of Women in gaming (Well if your position is that Video Games are causing a negative influence towards Women in gaming). It would be an interesting debate. Hopefully I get some more insight on that topic since the only people that I know that talk about the portayal of women in gaming in a Negative light is "Feminist Frequency" which was... just terrible.
Posted by Plebidise 5 days ago
Plebidise
Can you elaborate Delta? Actually after reading your arguments towards your previous debate, you should be a little less condescending but at least its interesting to see a more down-to earth feminist (Fourth Wave that is).
Posted by Throwback 5 days ago
Throwback
Instigator needs a wife.
Posted by PointyDelta 5 days ago
PointyDelta
Congratulations on completely missing the point. I have never seen a point missed so hard and so much and so frequently. well done.
Posted by Plebidise 5 days ago
Plebidise
I agree with you Kamikaze, but you should organize your debate a little better so its easier to see. Also you should maybe proofread a little.

But you do have some pretty good points and this might be a pretty interesting debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 10 hours ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
TheKamikazeMonkeysVongalaxyTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro by default!