Why do some people deny the existence of God? (Only Atheists)
When I tell them:" No-one has made your cars. No-one has built your houses. No-one has invented electrical equipment." They will ridicule me. They believe some people have made them. So why don't they believe Someone has created the universe which is greater than these material stuff? Don't they look at the universe? Was it created accidentally?
They may say:" We can see the people who made our cars. But we can't see God." How do they except to see God?
Truly, God cannot be described except the way the Almighty described it. How can God be described when the senses are unable to imagine or understand the Supreme Being that cannot be seen? The Divine Being despite the complete and full presence is remote and yet is near with all the remoteness; has created circumstance and personality but has no circumstance or personality; has created the place but has no place. God has no place or circumstance, the Almighty is a single unique being, God"s magnificence is distinct.
How do they expect to know God? They don't even know about themselves. They don't know many things about nature, space and their bodies. So how do they want to know God?
We must feel God with our hearts. God cannot be seen but it doesn't mean He doesn't exist.
We can't see the feelings. We can't see the love of our friends. We just feel it but it doesn't mean they don't love us.
We can't see the scent of flowers. We just feel it. But it doesn't mean they have no scent.
We can't see our conscience. But it doesn't mean we don't have it.
We can't see our intellect. But it doesn't mean we can't think.
Why do people deny God?
Prayer does not work. We pray to God in the hope that He will answer our prayers and listen to our woes. Prayers are supposed to be sacred, sincere conversations with a higher power. Since one of the basic beliefs about God is that He is omnipresent, He should be in each of our hearts and acknowledge our pleas. Try praying tonight. Try asking for something that is in good intentions, like the curing of a terminally-ill relative, or the recovery of a lost family heirloom. Wait for Him to listen to you and heed your prayer. Wait, nothing changed? This is odd. Jesus claims in Matthew 7:7, "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened... how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!" How can there be no response to wholehearted prayers? The answer is simple, there is no one listening to you.
God hates anyone who does not please him. Read Exodus 35:2. It says, "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." Consider the application of such a statement to society today. Think about that how many people work on the Sabbath- practitioners in medicine, law enforcement, etc. This passage from the Old Testament is stating that God wants these people put to death for not following his commands. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 gives another ridiculous statement, "If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid." This insinuates that any and all rebellious teenagers should be put to death, with no chance of redemption. Again, apply this to a society such as today's where more and more teenagers are becoming unruly and lackadaisical. Would it make sense to commit genocide against the youth of today for not honoring their parents? It would not.
I will post more arguments in the next round.
First of all, I should mention that I am Muslim. So I quote my Scripture and Diving Book which is Qur'an/Koran
You said that God didn't answer our supplication. You're right somehow. But I must explain something to you:
God wants us to pray. He loves listening to our supplication. Because when we pray, we show God that we need Him. We show our weakness. And God loves that. We are weak. But God is the Most Powerful. Everything belongs to Him. He is the Lord of the worlds.
If we study on attributes of God, we'll find that He is not mean and stingy. When we ask God for something, He will grant us, indeed. As He said in Quran:
"And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." (Quran 40:60)
So if God doesn't answer our prayer, we must know that it is our fault. We have done something bad which upsets God. We have committed sin. Another reason is the way we pray. We don't know how to supplicate. In the following, I tell you some ways which make God answer your prayer:
1. Remembering God all the time:
There are some people who pray when they are ill, when they have problem, when they are in danger. It's not good at all and God dislikes it. These people only remembers God in hardship and forget Him when they are happy.
We should always remember God. He said to Muhammad:"And keep yourself patient [by being] with those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening, seeking His countenance. And let not your eyes pass beyond them, desiring adornments of the worldly life, and do not obey one whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance and who follows his desire and whose affair is ever [in] neglect. 18:28"
And also, He says in another verse:" And when affliction touches man, he calls upon Us, whether lying on his side or sitting or standing; but when We remove from him his affliction, he continues in disobedience as if he had never called upon Us to remove an affliction that touched him. Thus is made pleasing to the transgressors that which they have been doing. 11:12"
God revealed to David:" Remember me and pray in ease. So I will answer you in hardship."
2. We must pray sincerely, not heedlessly.
3. We must put our trust in God. We also must be sure that God will answer it.
4. We must be disappointed in anyone other than God. We must believe that no-one can help us but God. He is sufficient for us.
5. We must try and work after praying. For example, I am poor and ask God to grant me money. If I just sit at home and do nothing, do you think God answers my supplication? No he doesn't. Because I must work to earn money. So God helps me to get more money.
Sometimes, we pray correctly, but God doesn't answer. because we have disobeyed him. Or we didn't worship him as we should do. For example, God says:" O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy. 2:208". God asks us not to follow Satan but we do.
There are more reasons that God doesn't answer our prayer. For example, we pray for something which is bad for us. But we think it is good. God knows everything and wants the best for us. So he doesn't answer our prayer. "Perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." (Quran 2:216)
And also, God wants to answer our prayer, but he doesn't do so immediately. Because he wants us to keep praying. He loves us and loves listening to our voice.
I don't know what you mean by stoning teenagers to the death. But I want to tell you something. Do not believe in whatever is written in the Bible. Because some parts of Bible (not all of it) is corrupted. The Scriptures are nonsense. If you have any question about Quran, I can answer you. But Bible is not the Word of God anymore.
God dislikes when people disobey Him. Do you know why? God gives us everything. He always helps us when we need him. He always grants us what we ask Him. He is The Most Compassionate, The Most Merciful.
"But if they turn away - then know that God is your protector. Excellent is the protector, and Excellent is the helper. 8:41"
"Sufficient for us is God, and [He is] the best Disposer of affairs." 3:173
God grants us many favours. But He just wants us to do two things in return; worshipping him and thanking him for his favours.
God doesn't need our worship. There are many angels who glorify God. Indeed, we need our worship. We offer prayers for our benefit. But we don't know it. We don't know the philosophy of worship.
There are many people who forget God and enjoy their life. They do whatever they want. They do evil things and hurt others. They commit sin and corrupt themselves. Don't you think they deserve punishment?
These peoples love this world and neglect the hereafter. "And this worldly life is not but diversion and amusement. And indeed, the home of the Hereafter - that is the [eternal] life, if only they knew. 29:46"
God punishes the evil people. But it doesn't mean God hates them. No, God loves them. God loves all of us. He just punishes to purify the people. Sins corrupts us but the punishment of God purifies us. I want to tell you some verses of Quran:
"[O Muhammad], inform My servants that it is I who am the Forgiving, the Merciful. And that it is My punishment which is the painful punishment. 15:49-50"
"Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." 39:53
"O my sons, go and find out about Joseph and his brother and despair not of relief from Allah. Indeed, no one despairs of relief from Allah except the disbelieving people." 12:87
" And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided. 2:186"
" And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein. 50:16"
God condones slavery. Genesis 17:12 states "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised." Exodus 12:43 states "The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it." Exodus 21:1 states "Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life." We today view slavery as morally unacceptable and it is illegal in most countries. Why, then, do we praise and worship a deity that deems it as morally acceptable?
If God were to exist, wouldn't you expect there to be a benefit to those who follow and obey him? Why, instead, do we see the opposite? Christians are persecuted by some for believing in God, as are Jews. Muslims are also persecuted by some for their beliefs. If you look at the history of these religions, you will not find ease and prosperity for them, as God has supposedly promised. The Jews were enslaved in Egypt, murdered in the Polish death camps, and yet through all this they looked to God. God offered them no help through those trying times, and for that, His people suffered. The promise of heaven for believing can't be guaranteed. This "benefit" is worthless should the people be killed or tortured and not able to reach heaven.
1. The sense of brotherhood
Islam has created a notion that both master and slave were brothers, one to the other, by inculcating an awareness that all men were created by the same God and were the children of the same parents,"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." (Quran 49:13)
God has cut apart the very root of all forms of narrow mindedness that arose out of the feelings of superior birth.
The prophet had taught that righteousness wasn't measured on the basis of color, race or wealth, but on the basis of God-fearing alone. "The Arab has no superiority over the non-Arab or the non-Arab over the Arab; the white over the black or the black over the white except in the matter of God-fearing."
Where slaves are mentioned, God remarked that "You are of one another." (4:25) He makes it clear that both master and slave are brothers and that it is circumstances alone which force slavery upon some people.
2. An awareness concerning the rights of the slave
The slave was a mere commodity item in all ancient societies. His lot was confined to duties alone. His obligation was simply to strive for an increase in the comforts and luxury enjoyed by the master and in this regard, there was to be no compromise whatsoever. It was a paramount necessity that the slave was in good shape in order to be able to work for his master. The slaves were housed in yards which sufficed to accommodate not even the cattle and other livestock. As for the clothes that they were provided with, they were sufficient not even to cover their nakedness.
Islam brought about a transformation in the situation. It taught that slave had rights as well. The prophet said:"They are your brothers and relatives. Let each one provide for the brother under him with the food that he himself eats and with the clothes that he himself wears. Place not upon them any task that is overbearing for them. If you do assign them a difficult task, you must help them in its execution."
The duty of the slave, in primitive societies, was never confined to mere labour. He was also doomed to be at the receiving end of his master"s sadistic pleasure-seekings. To be always ready to kill and to be killed for the sake of his master"s pleasure. God ordered that such a state of affairs must change. It instructed in the humane and proper treatment of the slaves." Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good,"and to relatives, orphans, the needy, ..., the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful." (4:36)
The prophet said:"If anyone kills a slave, we shall kill him. If anyone maims a slave, we shall maim him as well. If anyone castrates his slave, we shall castrate him."
From being the choice commodity for the master"s choicest desire, the slave was being transformed into a being with his very own personality and rights. It was in a society in which existed the heinous practice of castrating slaves that the prophet had, in the most unambiguous terms, declared that the master who castrates his slave will, in turn, "be castrated by us." The slaves were castrated in order that their sexual impulses be destroyed, whereby, they could then be made to work like animals. Islam, which prohibited this practice, particularly instructs that means should be made available for the satisfaction of the sexual instincts of the slave also. "Marry those among you who are single, and the virtuous ones among your slaves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah is Ample-giving, and He knows all things." (24:32)
God also prohibited the system of forcing female slaves into prostitution. "But let them who find not the means for marriage abstain from sexual relations until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract for eventual emancipation from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek thereby the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is to them, after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful."(24:33)
The Prophet taught against even uttering anything that might injure the self-respect of the slave. The prophet had made it clear that the slave, too, enjoyed self-respect upon which none had the right to trespass.
Islam teaches that the slave has the right to become even a leader and that in the event that he does get appointed as a leader, it is obligatory to obey him. "Even if it be a negro slave, with hair like dried grapes, who is appointed as your leader, you must hear and obey him."
"Seat him behind thee for he is thy brother and it is the same soul as yours that is within him."
Islam gave new meaning to the relation between master and slave by insisting that the master and the slave both had the same soul. It is true, nevertheless, that the slave does fall under the jurisdiction of the master. However, the master is duty-bound to fulfill the rights of the slave. It is his duty to meet the slave"s requirements of food, clothing, sexual gratification and so on. The slave is never to be harmed. He shouldn't be put into difficulty by entrusting him with burdensome tasks as well. In such fashion did Islam create a revolution of sorts in raising the slave, for the first time in history, to the position of a free man.
It was through this way that it became possible for Islam to bridge the wide gap that existed between the mental states of the master and the slave. The end result of this revolution was that the owner was emancipated from the belief that the slave was a commodity on which could be carried out his choicest desire while the slave was freed of the notion that he was doomed to a fate in which he was to bear, and to be patient and labouring always.
3. Declared the emancipation of slaves to be an act of righteousness.
By declaring the slave"s to be an existence which had rights of its own, Islam had made slavery non-existent. Without stopping at that point, however, it went further by turning to a course of action which would, in time, serve to eliminate the system in a very practical sense indeed. This practical step which Islam had adopted to make slavery virtually non-existent was its act of declaring the emancipation of slaves to be an act of righteousness.
God said:"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered" prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him,honored him supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful." (7:157)
This verse which makes it clear that the emancipation of slaves is an act of the highest virtue goes as follows:" What can make you know what is breaking through the difficult pass? It is the freeing of a slave or feeding on a day of severe hunger. An orphan of near relationship or a needy person in misery." (90:12-16)
As far as the emancipation of slaves was concerned, the prophet had exhorted his companions towards it by making an example himself. He set free the slaves who were in his possession.
There are numerous sayings of the prophet which encourage the freeing of slaves. "If anyone sets free a believing slave, each of his body parts will be set free from Hell so much so that it will be the hand for a hand, the leg for a right up to the sexual organ for the sexual organ."
Once, the Prophet was asked:"Which is the highest act in the emancipation of slaves?" he replied, "To set free the most valuable slave of the master."
He, while talking about those who become deserving of God"s reward twice, said, "He who confers a proper behavior upon the female slave under him, then gives her the best education, sets her free and then marries her will become entitled to a double reward."
4. Emancipation of slaves was made the act of expiation for many types of sin
In addition to encouraging the believers towards its commission by declaring the emancipation of slaves to be a virtuous deed, Islam recommended it as an act of expiation for many types of sin. The atonement for sins like unintentional murder and breaking one"s vow of not approaching his wife was the freeing of one slave. As for those who were not ready to free slaves in expectation of God's reward alone, the command which made the emancipation of slaves an atoning act for sins committed, nevertheless, made it necessary for them to do so.
You must realize that God is impossible.
If you look at the dictionary, here is the first definition of God that you will find:"A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions." Most believers would agree with this definition because they share a remarkably clear and consistent view of God. Yes, there are thousands of minor quibbles about religion. Believers express those quibbles in dozens of denominations, but at the heart of it all, the belief in God aligns on a set of core ideas that everyone accepts.
What if you were to think about what it would mean if there were a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient creator and ruler of the universe? Is it possible for such a being to exist? Epicures thought about it in 300 BC, and he stated thusly: "The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?" In other words, if you sit and think about who God is supposed to be, you realize that such a being is impossible.
In Matthew 7:7, Jesus says: "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"
The impossibility of God is visible here as well. Based on Jesus' statement, let's assume that you are a child and you are starving in Ethiopia. You pray for food. What would you expect to happen based on Jesus' statement? If God exists as an all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful parent you would expect God to deliver food to you. In fact, the child should not have to pray. Normal parents provide food to their children without their children having to beg for it. Yet, strangely, on planet Earth today we find tens of millions of people dying of starvation each year.
Another way to approach the impossibility of God is to think about omniscience. If God is omniscient, then it means that he knows every single thing that happens in the universe, both now and infinitely into the future. Do you have free will in such a universe? Clearly not. God knows everything that will happen to you. Therefore, the instant you were created, God knows whether you are going to heaven or hell. To create someone knowing that that person will be damned to hell for eternity is the epitome of evil.
Here is another way to understand this. If you look at the definition of God, you can see that he is defined as the "originator and ruler of the universe". Why does the universe need a creator? According to religious logic, the universe cannot exist unless it has a creator. A believer will say, "nothing can exist unless it is created." However, that satement immediately creates a contradiction, because we must then wonder who created God. For a believer the answer to that is simple- "God is the one thing that does not need a creator. God is timeless and has always existed." How can it be that the everything must have a creator, while God must not?
As soon as your think about the concept of a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being, you realize the impossibility of the concept. Plain and simple.
When you go to an office, you will see a boss who work there and orders the employee to do stuff.
When you enter a garden, you will find a gardener who waters the plants and cares for them.
So, is the existence of God something strange? Do you think this universe doesn't need a manager? Do you think a small school is greater than the universe? Only an ignorant person thinks so.
God is the Lord of this Universe. He is its manager. He organizes it:
"And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are [left] in darkness. And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point." That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk. It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. 36:37-40"
He tells the sky when to rain. He orders the river to flow. He orders the ants where to go:
"It is Allah who created the heavens and the earth and sent down rain from the sky and produced thereby some fruits as provision for you and subjected for you the ships to sail through the sea by His command and subjected for you the rivers. 14:32"
Why do you deny God? Because you can't define Him? Because you can't describe Him? Because you can't imagine He is omnipotent? Because you are not wise enough to know Him?
Oh come on. When you don't believe that an omnipotent being exists, it's your own problem. You can't describe God. You cannot know Him completely. Because your knowledge and intellect are limited.
Can you define spirit? Have you ever seen it? Can you describe how spirit is? No. Because we don't have much information about spirit. We just know it exists. So, we don't have enough information about God. We just need to believe He exists.
Once, the polytheists of Mecca came to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and said to him:" Tell us about your God and His attributes. What is He like?". Then God revealed this Noble Chapter of Quran:
"Say, 'He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (112:1-4)
God has introduced Himself in this way. He didn't told us anything else. Because we cannot understand.
You said about starving people. But first of all, I should tell you something. Do not quote or read the Bible. It has been CHANGED. It is CORRUPTED. You should read Quran. It is the only True Divin Book.
Anyway, how should God feed the starving children? Do you like He orders food to pour down like raid?!! God helps those children through us. He asks us to feed them. He asks us to give money to charity and help the poor:
"And when it is said to them, 'Spend from that which Allah has provided for you,' those who disbelieve say to those who believe, 'Should we feed one whom, if Allah had willed, He would have fed? You are not but in clear error." (Quran 36:47)
"And there is no creature on earth but that upon Allah is its provision, and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register. 11:6"
"Never will you attain the good [reward] until you spend [in the way of Allah] from that which you love. And whatever you spend - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it. 3:92"
God wants us to feed those children. And if they are suffering from starvation, it is our fault.
You said that God knew who will go to hell and heaven. Let's suppose it is true. And also, let's suppose you will go to hell. Do you like God punishes you immediately after your creation? For example, imagine you are born today and God takes you to hell. You asks:" O God! Why am I burning here? I didn't make any mistake. I didn't commit any sin.". And God says:" You didn't. But I know you will sin in the future. So I am punishing you in advance."
Does it make sense to you? Does it seem fair? Do you want God punishes you before you do something wrong?
I want to ask you a question. Do you know where you had been before your birth? Most people believe that there are only two worlds; this world and the hereafter. But they are wrong. There are four worlds: (The names are in Arabic)
1. Zarr; the world before birth. When God creates us, we live there until our birth.
2. Dunya; the world where we are living in.
3. Barzakh; the world after death. When we die, we will go there and live til the day of Judgement
4. Akhirah (the hereafter); the eternal world where we will go after the Day of Judgement
Ok, I want to tell you a little about Zarr:
Before we were born, we had lived in Zarr. In that world, God asked us many questions. For example, He asked us how we liked to live. He asked us how we liked to die. We have answered all those questions. And we are living in this world according to our answers. We had also taken some exams. Those people who passed the testp in Zarr, became the Messengers and Prophets of God in this world. The people who got good marks, became the good people in this world. And the rest became the evil ones and disbelievers. We don't know exactly what happened in Zarr. Because we have forgotten it when we were born. God knows who will go to heaven and hell because of the tests which we took in Zarr.
On the Day of Judgement, God says to the people of the hell:" [Then He will say], 'But stand apart today, you criminals, Did I not enjoin upon you, O children of Adam, that you not worship Satan - [for] indeed, he is to you a clear enemy - And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path.'" (Quran 36:59)
Do you know when God enjoined that? Do you remember? No. Because God has did it in Zarr, but we have forgotten that:
"And it will be said,"Today We will forget you as you forgot the meeting of this Day of yours, and your refuge is the Fire, and for you there are no helpers. 45:34"
Ok, I don't say anything else about Zarr. Because you may get confused.
You said:"Nothing can exist unless it is created.". It is true. But let's imagine someone has created God. So the creator of God needs another creator. And also, His creator needs another one and so on. And as a result, we have a limitless chain of Gods who have created one another!!! Does it make sense to you?!!!!
No-one has created God, because he doesn't need anything. But what about us? We need water to quench our thirst. We need food to satisfy our hunger and etc. We also need someone who gives us what we need and He is God:
"And We have sent the fertilizing winds and sent down water from the sky and given you drink from it. And you are not its retainers. 15:22"
"And have you seen the water that you drink? Is it you who brought it down from the clouds, or is it We who bring it down? If We willed, We could make it bitter, so why are you not grateful? 56:68-70"
"Do they not see that We have created for them from what Our hands have made, grazing livestock, and [then] they are their owners? And We have tamed them for them, so some of them they ride, and some of them they eat. And for them therein are [other] benefits and drinks, so will they not be grateful? 36:71-73"
We need a Creator, because we can't live without His help. We can do nothing if He doesn't help us.
"So he watered [their flocks] for them; then he went back to the shade and said, "My Lord indeed I am, for whatever good You would send down to me, in need.' 24:28"
But God doesn't need a Creator. because He needs nothing. I swear that I will never worship a god who is in need of something.
"They have said,' Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He; He is the [one] Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. You have no authority for this [claim]. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know? 10:68"
"And Moses said, 'If you should disbelieve, you and whoever is on the earth entirely - indeed, Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.' 14:18"
ConservativeLiberal forfeited this round.
Alice-The-Preacher forfeited this round.
ConservativeLiberal forfeited this round.
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||4||0|