The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Pest
Con (against)

Why don't christians take their god at his word?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/15/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 440 times Debate No: 103002
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
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backwardseden

Pro

Why don’t christians take their god at his word?
A perfect example of this is god freely admitting that he is “evil” and yet christians do NOT take their god as being evil even though their god does several times in his bible freely admit that he is evil. In other words, the christian god IS point blank evil. That’s according to the christian god. It is NOT according to christians who think they know their god better than he knows himself.

This debate will show in several ways that christians do not take their god at his word. And since christians do not take their god at his word, how can they take their friends, loved ones or anyone at their word? How are christians honest, forthright, genuine, authentic? How are christians real? There are many areas of the bible where christians do not take their god at his word. This debate will touch on a few of them.

Rules for this debate will be the same as my others:
Read Carfully!!! * Here’s a biggie that people don’t get… Now read this one closely... And its taught in college btw: If you do not show any intelligence nor an edumacation on the subject(s) that you claim to profess having a knowledge upon and you really don’t, you will rightly be degraded, humiliated and dehumanized with super duper garlic onion beer cheezy insults. Rightly. Justly. Deservedly. Duh.

* Obviously within the 5 rounds perhaps more than 10,000 characters will be required to say what needs to be said. Should this happen, carryovers into the comment section will be accepted and debates can continue from there.

* Perhaps more than 5 rounds will be required to prove that god is a maggoty indigestible loathsome creature who nibbles on the backside of the human soul to rectify his frail precious superior ego complex... If this is to be the cuddly little case, then the arguments can surely be taken to the comments section.

* Sidetracking into nosehair la la land and not remaining on target/ with utter lack of focus will not be accepted. A perfect example of this: Say I bring up a verse which blatantly shows god’s hatred and then you bring up Free Will. That’s sidetracking. That will not be accepted. And it will rightly be ignored.

* If you wish to counter something I have said, great! Then you need to prove the “why” you are countering it with solid evidence and with the explanation. Chapters and verses only please from your bible. And not some made up hogwash that you plucked from a jesus jujitsu class.

* Misinterpretations will not be accepted

* Absolutely no creationist will be accepted for any reason which includes any point of reference.Period. Why? Because if any creationist had any balls they would put god on trial again. So why haven’t they? Its because they 100% know that they will fail. Its because all that these born losers 100% know that all that they have is faith based oriented and faith cannot be proved.

* Verses will only be accepted as their verses only and will not be taken out of context. In other words do NOT tell me that I am taking these verses out of context. Because I am clearly not. It would be you that is taking the verses out of context as the below video will clearly show. Not only that, but only christians and no---one---else will agree with you. And if you say that I am then you would be required to prove it with for EACH VERSE (chapters and verses only please)

Still not convinced? Here’s a few videos to help you out proving that your bible and god ARE evil…
https://www.youtube.com......
https://www.youtube.com......

Here are a few verses in the bible where god states that he is “evil”. So why do christians not take their god at his word proving that that this god of theirs IS in fact “evil”? It certainly would solve a lot of problems.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

2 Samuel 12:11-14 "11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. (theevilbible.com) [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

1 KI 22: 22-23 “And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.”

2 Chronicles 18:22,”Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.”

Jeremiah 19:3 “And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.”

Jeremiah 19:15 “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.”

Jeremiah 23:12 “Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.”

Amos 3:6 “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

Deuteronomy 30: 15 “See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;"

2 Kings 22:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

2 Kings 22:20 "Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.

Summary
Those are just a few of the verses where this so-called christian god belts out his typical sneezes at his audiences and expects to be pbeyed by a group of peoples who could not possibly obey this g--o--d because of the strict evils worthless unholy laws, rules, and regulations that he placed upon them that could not possible be fullfilled.


UpDates
So what does this cheapened coined from the gutter god do? Why he turns to "evil" nontheless and proclaims it nonetheless. Yeah! What a great way to maintain realistic composure and to have others p-r-e-y to you. Of course christians pay attention to what their god says. Right? Especially on a rainy day when they REALLY want spomething.

As this debate further crawls along, we'll get further into depth how christians do NOT pay any attention to what their god says. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Pest

Con

Wow, someone has got some serious daddy issues. But our God, the father forgives all his sons and daughters. All it takes is a little faith, trust and pixie dust! Bippity, boppity, boo hoo. You have a small wiener, don't you? All the same, that's no reason to call the Lord evil. Name calling is mean and besides; that's more of a like a DNA/genetics kind of a thing.

But okay, seriously, this is easy. I'll play ball.

I'm sure you were hoping for the average Christian to jump in here because their panties were all kinds of in a twist after reading your debate topic. Unfortunately for you; I'm not a Christian. Not a typical type at least. But I'd still be happy to answer your question and pose an argument on behalf of all the ignorant ones I'm sure you're used to coming across.

And so, for starters; you've already lost because you broke all of your own rules. Technically sir, YOU are the one who has misinterpreted the Bible and so I'd like you to explain yourself. (Brace yourself, I'm an Occultist).

The mass amount of text and contents that you're quoting out of the Bible is; which version exactly? King James? International? Lexam? Grail Psalms? Cover Dale? Tyndale? Millennium? (Are you starting to get the point here?)

It all depends on frame of reference; you and I both know you would be hard pressed to find any Biblical version and/or interpretation that quotes one verse the same way, especially in using such bold words and language like the word, 'Evil.'

What it would seem like to me is that you watched a couple Youtube videos and plagiarized an argument that you thought would make you look all... I don't know, is 'cool' still a cool word? Whatever. Groovy.

So if we are to be expected to argue on behalf of why or why not we do or do not take God at his word; you're going to need to get really specific. Like... Are we talking southern Baptists? Methodist?Jewish? Mormoms? (Hurhur).

They'd all normally have their own preference of verse; and then it gets boiled down to preference of person. Or rather... Maybe it depends on economical attributes as perhaps the person would only buy the Biblical version most affordable at Wal-Mart, therefore; not really ever truly getting to make a choice in the first place.

But the word of God is the word of God.

And so, let me explain to you why you defeated your own argument since I'm on the topic of the word of God.

Let's start in the beginning, like literally.

The old testament was written by Moses for the most part, and in what language? Flip thru all those fun chapters and then what do we have?

You see; ahem. The Bible and the contents therein were all compiled from texts found all throughout the world at different time frames and for this reason some of it was Hebrew, some was Greek, and we have some Latin in there, blablabla. You get it. Therefore; the only one misinterpreting the Bible, is YOU. You broke your own rules, you lose.

If you're only going to argue the English translations; then you're already dead wrong.

Do you have any Spanish speaking friends?

If not, you should. Fiestas and tacos are awesome.

I've heard this same type of phrase repeated; when telling a joke in Spanish but then having to translate it in an attempt to explain the joke, it loses some of it's original qualities that made it funny because in a literal fashion, some words just simply can't be translated and for this reason we get some kind of bad 'close-second' kind of translation and when this happens... We 'get' the joke, but, eh... Not all that funny, is it?

RIGHT.

So now take a script that has not only been translated over and over and over again... But then also interpreted through thousands of years worth of changing culture and language changes.

Do you HONESTLY THINK that whatever of the hundred versions of the Bible you're choosing to quote from; the word 'evil' ACTUALLY MEANS 'evil' when you trace it back to it's source?

No, because we don't even understand the punch line.

Booya.'

Do not go gentle into that good night!
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Wow. Ouch you started with an outdated Mommy Dearest no more wire hangers insult that only a cowbore would use from his needle in his heystack pinprick. “Our” god? Um no. YOUR god in which you cannot even prove exists. Regardless by you stating “Our god” it means that you treat your god as a possession, like you own him, like you treat him as your slave and you drag him around to each confessional as your pet. Great going you! Keep up the good work. Show us some more of your great initiative.
Now why would I or anyone ---ever--- want forgiveness of any kind from a god who freely admits that he is evil in which you did not counter? And commits evil and heinous acts? Especially when I’ve done nothing wrong and your god has done everything there is to do wrong?
Really? According to what imbecile? You? How would you know? What grade of fake doggie chow have you graduated from in order to state that “the father forgives all his sons and daughters” Chapters and verses only please. This outaa be good.
Faith. Well let’s get to that right now. Here’s the Definition of Religion followed by the definition of Faith. Religion: 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (notice how the definition used the word "beliefs") 2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: (same thing) 3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: (same thing) 5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. (same thing but this time the definition uses the word "faith") Faith 2. belief that is not based on proof: (well duh) And then the World English Dictionary definition of faith is 1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence (well duh and double duh) 4. a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason. So yep. That's what religion is and that's especially true of what faith is.

Everything god is, is based on faith. And faith can not be proved. Faith is something that is pulled from air. Its like pouring gasoline all over yourself and then running into a burning collapsing building. Why do you think creationists will not put god on trial again? Its because they 100% know they will lose. There's nothing at all they can prove as everything they have is faith based oriented. Faith lacks common sense, thinking, rationalizing, logic, and reason as religion and god requires none. But it does require your utmost obedience. And you hand it over like a wet moldy sock that you have for a brain if you believe in god. Even the very definition of faith is self defeating. Faith 2. belief that is not based on proof: (well duh) And then the World English Dictionary definition of faith is 1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence (well duh and double duh) 4. a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason. So yep. That's what religion is and that's especially true of what faith is.

“Sure and captain Kirk asked god why he needed a spaceship. You can’t go to the bible and say what the bible says. Because then the next question is ‘why do you believe the bible to be true?’ If your source of truth is the bible you’ve already lost.” Matt Dillahunty

“If you care about something is true, faith has no place. Your faith is indistinguishable from the faith of the people’s of those who disagree with you. Its not a path to truth. Faith is accepting something. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the reason, the excuse people give when they don’t have a good reason. I’m talking about how do we find a good reason. And if your only answer is ‘well the bible says so, or you just have to have faith’, then you’ve demonstrated that you are not actually concerned whether its true.” Matt Dillahunty

“If you cannot give a definition for what you believe, then you really don’t believe in anything.” Tracie Harris

In other words, faith is completely worthless and meaningless.

You have a small intoxicated tummy brain don’t you? Hey your lard freely admitted he’s evil and yet you cannot take him at his word. *yawn* Wow. Do you bore yourself to sleep during a nuclear winter?

Oh I get it, you lard has DNA and genetics also. OK great! Prove it.

OK play ball with yourself. That’s how you gain your only friend with your hand.

“I'm sure you were hoping…” whoa. You have no idea what I hope for snookums. I could hope for a cute wittle wost wed badge of courage with a wittle wed wagon for all you know. You don’t know anything at all about how I think or dream. Oh and who cares if you are not a christian? The joke is on you. Because you see, I am far too smart for little kids like you who think they own the universe of their own little puddles.

So since your think tank is so bright and in the hall of braille, why don’t you tell me what my “rules” are? I haven’t misinterpreted the bible in any way and in fact you have since I’ve gotten this far with your minced mutton moron mechanical meandering mind. I already have explained myself. And if you require more explanation, before I present more scriptures to absolutely prove you 100% wrong, in which shall be done, then that entirely your problem and it is a requirement that you repeat preschool again.

Who cares of you are an”Occultist” So what? What does that prove? That you dip your brain in battery acid?

Oh well gee, you can’t read either. That’s not a surprise. Neither can most christians who do not even open their bible’s. Well then I strongly suggest that you read argument #1 and the last statement right before the “Rules for this debate will be the same as my others” So what does it say classe’? Now only you ask what version of the bible I use. Jeez. That’s not even worth questioning and only shows how utterly inept you are if you don’t know.

Tell you what sparky, why don’t you compare the translations to see how “evil” the verses are? Because I have. But then again its not about being evil now is it as stated. Its about you and not taking YOUR god at his word. Oh gee, I forgot that you mentioned you were not christian. Well in some forgotten terms which I forgot about.

Oh I watched a lot more than a few youtube videos. I’ve been doing this for 40 years and have talked with roughly 25,000. I’ve studied and read many books from many valued authors, online articles, and videos. What are your exact jesus jujitsu hi karate qualifications? I get it. Ring around the collar with an easter egg runt. Wow are your insults made for the dumpster dive choir that you’ve assembled at your trash heap because all you know how to do is sing la la byes for yeast infections.

No its specifically christians that do not take god at his word. As I have told you. We’re specifically referring to christianity.

“But the word of God is the word of God.” Really? According to what imbecile? You? How would you know? What grade of F- meeting Pauly Shore to make his life complete would give you that kind of indigestion? Now what word of god is god? If god is god, he most certainly would not communicate in text form, not ever, the worst form of communication possible for everybody to get it wrong with no updates in a good 2,000 years or more especially especially especially with his bloated superior ego complex to spread his word that he would never let rest until all on this planet would hear and understand it.

So you have nothing to explain. You are immediately defeated. Gone. Done. POOF. Dust.

Arguments 3 &4 will have scriptures from this failed god that also shows how christians do not take him at his word. I'm out of space here.
Pest

Con

Nice! I think I like you. At least, I like the way you so eloquently shoot the poop. So to say, because we're not allowed to use the language we might otherwise would. Well... That I would. Can't say for sure about you. You're hard to read; (metaphorically and not literally although I'm sure it's not any secret to you that most people have a hard time literally reading you also because let's face it; people these days in generalities don't like reading). What I mean to say is; the way you presented your counter-argument is seemingly, eh, socially contradicting, but only in the sense that it's written in the same style that a God fearing, hellfire & brimstone preaching conspiracy-theorist would write their own Alex Jones tribute blog. (Couldn't decide between that or making an interview with the leader singer of a Norwegian Death Metal Band joke instead). Except... You're an atheist. Every bit as stubborn and boring as one also; but with the all the ignorance of the average Bible -humper this side of the Mississippi, included. You're just all kinds of special, aren't ya? Yeah. I like you. I'm sure we'd have way more fun in a bar debating these things. But okay. Game time, again. Let's give the people what they want!

Where do I even start!? I gotta' be honest with you my bromosexual, I'm excited and I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee this morning yet, or my first cigarette, or my first narcotic, pfft, and don't even get me started on a crap; because those first three things create a natural laxative. You should try it; I'm sure with all of the **** coming out of your mouth that your ***hole must be getting jealous. AS ABOVE, SO BELOW.

And so in a duration of time that will be seemingly undecipherable to you as you're in a constant read whereas I am in a contemplative writ; I have finished my coffee and determined that, I'll start here. And so it has begun.

HA!

Note: This response is less a debate and more a proposal of clarifications.

OKAY. Firstly, in response to pointing out your rules as per request; IF I were to pin-point and attack every way in which you broke your own following rule of; "Sidetracking into nosehair la la land and not remaining on target" as you have done in your previous argument, then we'd be here all day and I'd waste my character count if I elaborately picked apart the specific wording used as you did mine. Hell, I'd run out of remaining characters even in pretending I had quadruple the amount. So I suggest that we might establish this; I think we can both agree that witty puns and dry humor are necessary between the likes of us and so we should limit them to trailing off no more than what is absolutely necessary. Unlimited one or two sentences worth of insults after every genuine point made, MAX. Agreed? Or what say you?

Next; as per your rule set, my breath smells like french vanilla creamer and oxycodone, thank you very much and I will have you know I respect that you read me as I have read you and I would be confident in saying that I'm readily willing to bet, based on prior debates had with only sources checked herein that you might even be willing to agree you've not yet had someone as willing as I to entertain a given topic. AND I got him to sign my copy of 'Pauly Shore is Dead.' You're jelly, I get it. But also, for no other reason than I'm on the topic already I might also mention that I couldn't help but notice you name 'Empire' specifically which is all fine and well if you can no longer name the franchise in general but, I think it goes without saying that when push comes to shove, 'Return' was better. And by the power vested in me by the state, I pronounce this statement to be true 77777.

Turd. We'll see how well this next round is received but I might agree that more rounds and characters might be needed as I'd be willing to debate somewhat seriously if you are but again, this depends on whether or not you're willing to approach the argument with the level of logic and straight-forwardness I think we are both capable of.

Quatro; you mentioned the five-round thing, twice over and if I had to put money on it; your zipper isn't pulled up all the way either. Otherwise, might I clarify this; as I don't exactly nor fully align myself with Christian attributes, may I prove "why" and source my solid evidence from sources outside of Biblical scripture? My debate WILL be on Biblical verse to be sure, and I will counter you verse for verse; with explanation; but for further reference I'd need the availability to cite inside and out. Agreed?

Five... I don't have anything clever for five. But all the same; can you please define "misinterpretation" for me as per your interpretation of what you believe to be an example of Biblical verse being 'misinterpreted'? No tricks here. Maybe an actual representation of someone having 'misinterpreted' a verse as per your definition of it in the past? I ask for reason being of wanting to stay within boundary lines as according to you and your rule set. (As mentioned; my interpretation and the interpretation of the majority would be extremely different but I'd be willing to play-along with the generally accepted one for sake of the debate). I'd also like an example of what you would consider to be, having 'taken a verse out of context.'

666. Lol. Creationism. Don't be silly. You're preaching to the wrong choir brotha-man. I don't go 'head girl go 'head get down like that. But I did notice that you referenced your own jokes in the argument as you did your rules. Bad form! But c'mon, creationist? Give me a LITTLE more credit than that. I'd rather be called a Scientologis..... Never mind. Long story short; Wrong tree you're barking up, as it were. But I'm curious, are you a big bang, guy? Or?

And then, yeah, I don't know. Your rule set kind of trails off into a myriad of Bible verses and Youtube links that don't work from there. So maybe you could kind of give me a summary of what message you were hoping to convey by posting those videos? Even if they did work, I still wouldn't watch them. I live in the boondocks and have a limited hot spot. Only way I'm wasting my 50g's on a video is if one of the Olsen twins finally agreed to do porn. But it might also be worth mentioning that I'd waste all 50g's if both of them decided to do porn together. (Just thought everyone here should know something about me). Anyhow; If you're in agreeance, I'd suggest this: While videos are allowed as source reference, I think we should formulate our own conclusions and not attempt to let a video speak on behalf of us. What say ye?

Now that I have made my proposals I will respond unto you that I have definitely read your originating topic and debate; including but not limited to the last section which you referenced to me in your responding argument. Can't argue with that logic.

And so, after typing and including within the math, this sentence leading up to the numbers I'm about to give you I have 1,103 characters left, not including the 'characters left, not including the' and repeat part. With that; I'd like to re-propose my original argument and respond to your responding one in a more somber tone so that it might elicit an equally respectable one while touching on specific counter arguments made.

My original arguments were the following;
[1] Differentiation in Biblical version & interpretation; therefore not equating to verses amounting to the same wording being used as per specific arguments.

[2] Modern day English translation of any version would be a misinterpretation as the actual meaning of Biblical verse has changed dramatically from it's originating roots in antiquity.

I will touch on both again in my following response, and fully respond to your secondary argument once you have read and understood my proposal for a more defined debate. If you'd like; you may just respond to the questions simply, without elaborate debate so that we can move-forwardly, quicker.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Splat the wonder Smog tries to answer with an insult to carry the party. Little does our whipper snapper ginger spice know that I just came across an Atheist Experience to shatter all his hopes and dreams of winning this debate.
https://www.youtube.com... 1:30, 11:00
Well I do not need nor require to use language that I am assuming that you are referring to because it shows an utter lack of intelligence which is what you have arrogantly mentioned. Correct?
I am hard to read because I am a poker player. If you were to get involved in a game of poker with me, chances are very good that your chips would be mine before you were to have even sat down to the game.
My brain is socially contradicting. If you were to have been through and go through what I go through and have been through, so would yours. You’d probably, well not probably, you would have offed yourself or tried to a good dozen times or more.
My counter argument? To the “Dregs of the Earth” (great album by the Dixie Dregs) that you presented? Are you serious? When you present your imbecilic nothingness it isn’t hard to counter what you have to say with any standing phallic fatal chess piece to off himself as a laughing stock court jester dressed in pink nighties. No really, are you serious?
Well Death Metal is pretty wimpy. I mean you do get that right? There are bands out there that your mind cannot possibly fathom nor understand.
Me boring? Well you put me to sleep. And nuclear winter hasn’t even hit.
Ah yes, but you, the average bible cherry blossom thumper presses on. To do what exactly? Just snivel in his cotton chair waiting for a runny babbit to hop on by and take all your chocolatey goodness away from your razor blade teeth at duck so you cannot set traps for wandering sheepish cow chirps at dusk?
Actually I am special. I’ve seen things that I hope no one else ever has to see, including you McDuff rough.
In a bar? I don’t drink. Sorry.

“Note: This response is less a debate and more a proposal of clarifications.” That’s because you do not have the ability to debate.

Now of course we have to insult each other. What fun is it not to not do as such oh great documented litter brain? Continue…

Oxycodone is worthless. What an ultra cheap drug that doesn’t do much of anything to help anybody except get them addicted to a med that basically DOESN’T WORK!!!!!

Absolutely not in no way was Return better than Empire because the characters were not anywhere near as well written. The way the Emperor died? Being thrown off a balcony? This is the prince of darkness. Um no. Absolutely not. The characters were fatally flawed with a truly mushy ending. But Dr. Lucas did screw up with the first 3. And you do fully understand that without the legendary Akira Kurosawa and his film The Hidden Fortress which Star Wars Episode IV A new Hope in which in many ways is a remake of that film, Star Wars would be nowhere. I mean you fully understand that - correct? No? But the thing that really cost the first 3 is George forgot to put in that touch of Kurosawa with the wonderful deadpan humor.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

Well duh you go online to get the “availability to cite inside and out” just as I do. Duh and doy. That’s pretty simple.

Misinterpretation. There’s no one that interprets properly. Not one person on this planet. As stated, if god were god he would not choose text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible. With translations handed down over the generations, with the different languages that they’ve been translated into that’s millions of translations. So how can anyone trace back to that exact beginning translation? And then suppose that you do? How are you or anyone going to tell me that you have that translation correct? And then to translate it to the next person so that he or she understand it to be correct? Sorry WRONG. In other words “the the the” does not translate into “and and and”. Not only that but to give you a perfect example The Bishops version of the bible which is the version of the bible before the KJV and was translated into the KJV, the word “tyrant” was translated into the word “king” and it was done at least 400 times. Now what in the flying pregnant fetus screw does the word “tyrant” have anything to do with the word “king” except for NOTHING? And if one key word is off 400x, then you’ve got another keyword that is off thus you’ve got 800x and another and another and another and another etc etc etc etc. Not only that but those who hung around with jesus could not read nor could they write. And there 0 proof that jesus ever existed. Now I’m not saying that he didn’t, I’m saying there’s no proof, and there isn’t. So memory if he existed is the only proof in to carry his memory. And memory is always unreliable. To prove it get a table of 9. You whisper into one person’s ear 5 sentences. Something like “See Spot Run. See Spot in the middle of the street. Splat see no more Spot. My isn’t the sun radiant today? Let’s go surfing.” Then you whisper those 5 sentences into the next person’s ear and so on. By the time it gets back to you, the original sentences are so garbled that the original sentences cannot be made out. Try it. So there’s 0% way that anything of quoted especially coming from main characters in the bible is correct. Nothing. That’s the simple laws of language. Like it or not. No one, nobody, not the pope, not you, not me, not any minister, not any rabbi, not any priest, not any pastor, nobody interprets the bible correctly. Its always misinterpreted somewhere.

OK you are allowing me to kill 2 boids with one stone and no pun intended but
Deuteronomy 13: 9-10 “But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.” 1. Many christians state that its because that they worship false idols that they deserve to be punished. Well OK then, then its immoral. Period. 2. Since this debate is entitled “Why don't christians take their god at his word?” Then you come on down here and you stone me to death because I am worshiping other idols and gods and you stone to death the rest of the world who does not worship your god for the very same reason. Whatsamatter you are not going to do it? Why not? See, you don’t follow your god nor do you take him at his word. And don’t you think for a second that you do. There are many examples of this. I’m not taking one damn thing out of context. christians are.

Since we are on the topic of “Why don't christians take their god at his word?” Let’s do a brief rundown with some deliberate genocides that your god committed? Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan combined. Here's some examples... 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc god is so moral huh? WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! There’s no such a thing as “love” within any genocide.

Who knows how the universe came to be?

OK so you won’t watch the youtube video’s which has a lot more edumacation than you ever will. Since that is so, I will end this. When you decide that you do not want to be the typical christian and take some actual evidence in, you let me know. K? That's the problem with christians, they are terrified in being proven wrong.
Pest

Con

Okily dokily neighborino! You got yourself a debate!

[1] https://tinyurl.com...

Funny thing you mentioned the bit about not using naughty language because you believe it shows lack of intelligence; in fact, not using those words is arguably the unintelligible option as studies show that directly after hitting ones own thumb with a hammer; screaming obscenities actually lowers the amount of pain experienced by the individual as in any case where physical pain might be employed. Now YOU sir are verily more than welcome to walk around like you're big Mr. Tough guy after waking up to take a good ol' fashioned pee at 3:33am; then successfully stubbing your toe on your way out. But me? Yeah... **** you and this and that and everyone sleeping for that matter. Swearing has actually been shown to lower blood pressure and stress also. These three examples are of the only things that really have any hard evidence behind them; but it's worth mentioning there are a myriad of other theories coming to fruition also. Call me unintelligent if you'd like but I'd match your unintelligent with a big whopping side of close-minded. Open your vocabulary up to a world of possibilities! Not only has it been shown that when curse words are used appropriately the individual is on average more comedic but the best part is that this whole statement actually has real relevant appropriations to my argument on a whole.

I don't want to waste too much text with a bunch of links but here is a good start in case you're interested.

[2] https://tinyurl.com...

Now, before I continue; let's get a couple of things straight. 1. I'm on the Autism spectrum and although I don't know how to play poker; I bet I'd beat you, hands down at Lady Gaga karaoke. Check and mate. 2. Yes, and I will readily agree that the music you speak of exists; I've listened to Enya before and it's way beyond my capacity for reasoning. (And don't even get me started on Insane Clown Posse). 3. Trying to group me in with other Christians is a downhill battle, don't waste your character count. To clarify AND respond to your original second argument;

By occultist I mean; of occult studies, which of course goes to say that I study a wide array of topics within and outside of religion and spirituality. Anybody that is well-versed in esoteric studies of this nature will know that the majority of what we are led to believe is actually less faith based, rather; scientifically backed. I'm not a Christian whatsoever; however I do believe in aspects of the systematic foundation of Abrahamic beliefs, but this means nothing in reference to those that you're used to insulting because I also know the roots are just as much tied into every religion found world wide. Be it Hinduism, Buddhism, all the way on over to Paganism. Where there is reasonable antiquity, therein lies an account of what I know to be true and so, believe. I believe that one, nor the other (science v spirituality) can exist or make sense of themselves, if not for the other.

And well, you're right. Faith is a silly word. The word "belief" is just as damaging; because in order to believe still implies that you're trying; just like faith goes to say that you only want to believe. I have faith in nothing; I believe what I want to; and I only 'know' what I know to be true. Nothing less. Concerning the grade of doggie chow I've graduated from; that would be Master in Psychology (major in; social and secondary being clinical) UCF. And of course, this alone doesn't imply any special or disciplined knowledge in the fields of divinity or the branches thereof; but because you asked I will confidently admit that you're correct in the beginning of your secondary argument; especially when coupled with my own person occult knowledge.

Yes! "Our God." Not my God, not your God, not Abraham's God or Jesus's daddy; I do in fact mean, "our God." Why for? Because I don't believe in God in the traditional Christian sense. Personally; all I know to be true is that the universe cannot exist without our individual & singular perception of it existing. I don't mean when I wrote the last sentence; nor do I mean the word I'm about to type. I mean; NOW; as in, the only thing we can truly know is that we perceive ourselves and the universe we exist within only about every six-trillionth of a second; but we cannot even be sure that we will continue to be consciously perceiving it the next six-trillionth of a second, or that we existed six trillionth of a second ago. Time is an illusion; there is only a 'now' that is so passingly infinite and absolute that we can't even define it well enough to stress it's occurrence. As you clarified for me; memory cannot be depended on. Thank you.

So when you made mention of God being my slave; dragging him around to each confessional and all. Yes! Absolutely. In fact; I believe that 'God' in the context that you have been referring to him as; is me. That would be the only rational way to make sense of it as nothing else would be a known fact. Some would say that I might even subscribe to a more Satanic system of belief. But Christian? No. Not in the typical or majority definition of what a standard Christian is thought to be. Therefore; you only have the same weak argument that you're accusing everyone of having as literally; NOTHING would be a fact except that we create the universe we exist in.

In ANY failed attempt by anyone in trying to define 'God' in the multiplicity of the myriad of omni-directed essences; it would commonly be thought that "God" is in fact, absolute. That would really be the only handle one could give him without too much, risking pushing a definition worthy of arguability. And even that is arguable depending on who you ask.

If "God" is thought to be 'all' or wholly absolute; whether you choose to believe in the notion of God as it exists in the Christian context or not; then we'd need to consider in my rationale of belief in only what one can know; then it would need to be "our" God; if I am God. No matter if you look at this objectively or subjectively; God would need to be my consciousness, and your consciousness, and the conscious and unconscious thought we all have; along with the thoughts and "memories" belonging even to the most ignorant of people as per your belief that they are ignorant. Even a grain of sand on the beach and an atom reaching the further stretches of space would be needed for God to be absolute. "Our God." You see?

You can deny the following statement all you want to but; your entire argument falls apart if you only aim the argument at a selected party or demographic of people. You entire argument holds absolutely no validity if I don't choose to align myself with those the accusations are targeted at. Meaning; your entire argument is a personal blow and not a well-rounded debate based on any fact. As per MY belief; it's very obvious as to why Christians don't take God at his word.

If we are God; or each person is the singular God; or I am God; then how often do we as humans not listen to our own advice? In this sense; would we not be praying when thinking to ourselves? Apply this anyway you want to and surely; the Bible will make much more sense in this perspective.

Pi is 3.14; answer to everything, so it is taught. When Moses asks his name;

Exodus 3:14: I Am.

As was stated in my previous argument; we know that Moses wrote the better part of the old testament, therefore; he was. Divine spirit? Hallucination? Wishful thinking? Alien? Maybe he truly was just writing a fairytale. All the same; it was him and it's all connected.

We, as thinking, rationalizing, talking human beings literally create reality only so much as we wish to believe; but no matter the circumstance the only fact* as to what we may know is that we are; only now and that if we weren't; nothing would be. We sin, we love, we interpret. Christians; as does everyone, including you; take God at his word, literally.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

I cut out the “naughty” stuff. You seem to be pretty well wayy above average and its nice to actually debate with you. Not only on religion, but on other stuff as well.
My cuppeth runneth over and I will be posting in the comments section. If you wish to dock me, go right ahead. Right now I am very tired. I’ve been up for a good 48 hours straight. But I need to watch a few films before DirectTv gets cut tomorrow.

If you’d like, please keep in touch!

OK then let’s play some poker. I bet you that you won’t beat me. I play Omaha Hi lo. Or its also known as Omaha 8 or better. Read up on the rules if you do not know how to play the game. I started out with $1000 in play chips and I’m up by $21.1 million!!! Yes, you read that right!!! That’s because people like you who are beginners cannot play the game. They don’t get the rules. It is played in every casino that I know of. I go by “unclereraise” Yes its a stupid name. But I’ve had the account for years now. No It didn’t happen overnight to get that high. It took YEARS, probably a good 10 or more. If you don’t know the rules, read up on it. I play at pokerstars.com
I used to live in Reno, NV and I would play there a lot, 20 years ago. But my then girlfriend invited me me to come on down here and live with her here in dumpwater Orlando, Fl. I truly hate it here. We didn’t get along so its a long story… Then I found a 3 page article that helped me get to that $21.1 million. Granted, when the law hit and every site lost their rights, Sooooooooo POOF GONE went $18. million. But now I have $3.1 million. No I do not buy play chips. It most certainly isn’t worth it especially when the game CHEATS. Yeah you get trips in your hand far far far too much, you get counterfeited far far far too much, your lows don’t get there far far far too much etc etc etc. So I don’t play that much anymore. But you wanna have a go at it? Let’s go. But to clear the air its a MACHINE!!!! Arararggggggggg so even you will get frustrated by the impossibilities that it turns out. .

Are you interested in hearing some earth shattering music that pulverizes death metal? But I give you fair warning BE PREPARED. ITS NOT FOR EVERYBODY and you will probably say wtf is this s--t. But the more I listened to it, the more I respected it because it so far gone into the next universe and so very original which does not happen everyday. Granted, its not Cannibal Corpse or anything like that.
Now if you like Enya, try Bel Canto, Bat for Lashes, mmmmmmmmm amazing stuff. Absolutely wonderful. The singing and musicianship is phenomenal.Don’t worry, Insane Clown Posse is not on my list either.

Well hinduism and Buddhism is a good way to be. I mean after all, think about it… christ preaches the beginning of suffering whereas Buddhism preaches the end of suffering. Hmmmm. Gee I just can’t possibly imagine which one to follow and choose? Personally I believe, actually let me take it, back, I know, Gaia Mother Earth to be true. So does everybody else. They just don’t know it. Due to the fact that every living thing is spiritual and has a wonderful and beautiful spirituality with an interconnection that can not be broken (though man tries very hard to do with his utter ignorance into which could very well be his downfall), and the god according to the bible gets jealous of that, which is such a joke unto itself because no supreme deity ever would, as jealousy is anger as disguised fear, so really what imbecile would ever want that to be a party of that to govern them? No one!!! When god should embrace all life if anything, so god according to the bible is absolutely false, christ is absolutely false, christianity is absolutely false, the bible is absolutely false, and so is this ridiculous religion, and so is absolutely 100% heaven. They all have no bearing on anything and are all meaningless gibberish.

If that interconnection did not exist between life, life would not exist. And if that interconnection is broken, as man tries to do with his stupidity and arrogance, life would cease to exist even though that interconnection has always been there ever since life has taken shape on this planet. Life has always found a way. Life itself is a higher power. If interested look up Gaia Hypothesis on wikipedia. Its a lot about spirituality as well. Well jeez, I’m sure you saw Avatar.

Yeah see that’s it. I want something tangible. I want a tree. I want a raindrop. I want a butterfly. I don’t want faith. And why would this god guy with his super massive head tripping blubbering BABBLING who has all this power and thus spreads fear and then with that fear establishes control, there’s that ego (which is what the entire bible is) demand faith? No. Not at all. With his ego, he’d blab himself to utter death and beyond to make damn sure he’s known. He would NOT hide.


Oh my you went to UCF? We’re practically neighbors!!!
Now if you majored in psychology, you’ll do pretty good in poker ON THE TABLES as its 52% psychology. Its hard to use psychology on a machine. You only have a few seconds to make up your mind.

No not my god by any means. Call “god” something else. Here’s the way I look at it. In me being a huge film buff and the original Planet of the Apes as one of my all time favs, there’s a line in there that the Taylor character says “Somewhere out there in this universe there has to be something better than man. Has to be.” I 100% agree. And it isn’t god according to the bible.

Oh yes, I do agree that we create our own universe that we exist in. But you know something, wouldn’t it be great if something, something out there came down and woke us up from our arrogant stupidity? I cannot possibly believe in a god, gen1:26 that would give us (man) this planet to do with whatever we please, to rape, her and plunder. I can’t.
Not only that but there are thousands of hypocritical contradictions in the bible, so many absurdities. And think about it, if this was any type of text book, it would absolutely 100% get a failing grade and never be able to make it into any classroom to be taught. Not one.

Here’s another thing also and pay close attention. Is satan, evil really needed? Evil/ hate is NOT a need. Its not a requirement. Its not a necessity. But in god’s turgid world it most certainly is. After all what would god do if things were peaceful? He’d be out of a job. There’d be nothing for him to do. No souls to save. No one to send to heaven etc etc etc. In other religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, the aborigines, Gaia Mother Earth, nearly every native American Indian tribe until the sweaty greasy white man christian brethren wiped them out, etc etc etc did not practice nor preach hate nor evil anywhere close to what christians do and did. Not---even---close. ,

Yeah I 100% agree with you because in asking for god, it is a failed attempt because faith cannot be proved. There’s no test that faith can withstand.
And there’s nothing that we can know or prove when faith is concerned because faith has to bow its beaded head into the garbage pile.
Well see let’s look at it this way… what if nobody had ever heard of this so-called “god” especially children? What then? They after all have to be taught god and his rules. And what a bunch of unnecessary bunched up crowded evil set of hateful rules especially that no child should ever have to endure. Children are always left out in the cold in god’s little oblique cold dark world except for a few brief sentences in which doesn’t add up to a whole lot. So god isn’t absolute when it comes to the innocence of children. He can take a flying leap. And there’s so so so many verses that prove that god truly hates children anyways.

Think about this… Stephen Hawking and his colleague have come up with an equation that proves something does come from nothing. In other words, god was not needed to have created the known universe. And mathematical equations are the only facts there are.
(cont'd in comments)
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
why didn"t he just forgive everybody or change the laws? But instead he just comes up with a loophole where he comes down bodily and sacrifices himself to himself to act for a rule that he created? Its absurd. Its laughably absurd. And its immoral." Matt Dillahunty I 100% agree. And I totally agree with Matt that my moral standards are most definitely 100% superior to almost ANY character in the bible.

"As was stated in my previous argument; we know that Moses wrote the better part of the old testament," Well that"s simply 100% false.
https://www.youtube.com... 13:15
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Um no. There"s nothing that I take god at his word because there"s nothing to prove that god has ---ever--- existed. I"m not gullible. I want evidence.

Summary
There is absolutely no evidence, none, for god"s existence. God reminds me a four leaf clover in an abandoned shack without any sunlight for it to grow or be nurtured.

Thankfully this god is dying. And rather rapidly. People are getting smarter and not falling for anal retentive traps that is set by cowardly acts to snare new worshipers. Thankfully god and his followers are fading and fading all over the world except for in one country. And if it can continue, the world will get along and be much better off.

So please always tc and have fun and I'd love to remain in touch with you -Michael
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
If they say god did impose that law then they do have to answer the question "do you think its a moral law?""" Tracie Harris

Oh people don"t listen to their own advice all the time. That"s a bad statement on your part. How many people cross the street without looking? Then bam they are either killed or are in the hospital? What about the good ole texting and driving? Same thing etc etc etc. The bible can"t help you. Its a little blank black book of good little stories every now and then.
"I have yet to find an example of a moral standard in your holy book that I find morally correct. Caller "Then if your moral standards are so superior to the living god, then convert me." Matt "My moral standard is superior to the character, in fact my moral standards are superior to almost any character in the bible. I have no problem with that. I"ve said it many times and explained it many times before. I could maybe rattle off a list of sins." "Matt hasn"t killed anybody. How"s about that?" Yeah. I think anybody who advocates slavery is morally inferior. I think anybody that advocates genocide and slaughter is morally inferior. I think anybody that advocates infinite punishishment for finite crimes and deeds is morally inferior. I think anybody that is omniscient and omnipotent and omnibenevolent who creates a society to knowing that people are not going to be able to live up to his standards spends an eternity punishing them or spends many thousands of years punishing them trying to correct his mistakes over and over again he creates Adam and Eve they fail he banishes them out of the garden then there"s the tower of babel then there"s the flood there"s well actually there"s the flood then the tower of babel, sorry I got that backwards, its failure after failure after failure after failure after failure and then finally it culminates. And the only loophole that the creator of all the laws of the universe can come up with,
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
(CONT'D from Argument 4)
2 + 2 = 4 no matter which language you speak. God can be disproved no matter which language you speak. Not only that but the Maya came up with the number 0. Nothing. No matter how hard you try you cannot think of nothing. Something does come from nothing.

So think of "god" to be 'all' or wholly absolute; Why not?
Well with your rational, we only know what we know.
Here"s another thing" there"s no thinking, reasoning, rationalizing, common sense, logic behind god, the bible and religion because it does not require a single ounce of it. I was told that a while back and I 100% agree with it.

Well then why christians don"t take god at his word was proved. Deuteronomy 13: 9-10. (there"s many many may more verses another entire chapter on the same thing, being gay, massive genocides, god"s evil"s, take their god at his word etc etc etc because they are stupid rules, laws and regulations that nobody of moral compass and standard can possibly fulfill) You come on down here and stone me to death then because I do not follow your god. And if you do not follow your god"s rules, laws and regulations, then who are you AS STATED in argument 1 the second paragraph.
Or pay attention to The Atheist Experience video that I previously posted. Especially at the 1:30 & 11:00 marks. .
https://www.youtube.com...
"Do you believe that god imposed that law in the OT that it was in effect and that it was from god? And if so do you agree that its immoral? And if they"re not willing to admit that its an immoral law, then they have to defend it whether they think they are under it or not because they have to say at the time is was imposed it was for example to kill gay people. If they want to argue that it wasn"t ever moral then they have to say whether or not their god imposed that law. And if they say "no god had nothing to do with the law" they"re off the hook but that makes other problems.
Posted by backwardseden 7 months ago
backwardseden
ris --- Did it ever occur to you that "pest" is a liar? I"ve seen yodeling Buddhist monks like him troll around for attention for decades now. And now that he sees this he will either tread super carefully and think about posting his final argument once I post mine or he will not post it at all.
So what if he says he"s not a christian? I mean jeez how many claim they are christians and they have not even picked up the bible and read page 1 or ever attended a church service? Its not hard to declare yourself or not declare yourself a christian. Even moreso a jew.

"Where God say that He is evil? Read argument #1 for pete"s sake. I mean are you fricken serious? We"re done. I"m not going to bother with the rest of your comment. Normally, I'd slam you with all types of insults with that type of comment.
Posted by TheolaIrisB 7 months ago
TheolaIrisB
Okay, @backwardseden:
I notice that you say "When you decide that you do not want to be the typical christian and take some actual evidence in, you let me know[...]". But @pest already said that he's NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Where God say that He is evil? Hm?
You're interpreting it...not "taking Him at his word".

Let me explain something else to you: There are different interpretations with the different types of people. Personally, I see God as merciful and strict. Sort of like a parent to a whole new level. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are other parts of the Trinity that make up forgiveness and love and compassion.

Make any sense?

~ Iris ^_^
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