The Instigator
Thiest_1998
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
condeelmaster
Con (against)
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0 Points

Why don't people want to believe in God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,239 times Debate No: 85895
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (52)
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Thiest_1998

Pro

I'm am a born again Christian otherwise known as a Thiest and I would like to know from a Athiest or an agnostic why don't you believe in God be honest and if you're not in the debate please comment.

God bless bless you :)

Love you ALL with the Love of God.
condeelmaster

Con

Thanks for the debate. Good luck!
I will try to be as polite as possible, so if you get offended It's not my intention.

I believe that the principal reason why some people don't want to believe in god is that these people want to "know the truth".

I personally, and I feel that most people that don't believe in god as well, don't believe in god because I think It isn't the best explanation to the nature of our world.

I was raised Christian. But I was really curious. I really wanted to understand the things around us. And in that effort to understand the world I discovered that god doesn't seemed a good explanation. I discovered that science had more logical arguments than religions.

I think that the belief in god should be respected. However, It is just that: a belief. People who want to truly understand the world tend to seek for an argument based explanation, not belief. And that's why atheist don't want to believe in god.

You also talked about agnosticism. Agnostics argue that the truth value of metaphysical claims is unknowable. This means that they think they cannot know if there's any god or not.
Debate Round No. 1
Thiest_1998

Pro

I am a born again Christian and I am going to use the bible as my means of explanation.
So in the 2 book of Peter 2 peter 3:3 it says.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And my break down is the scoffers which are people who mock; (the bible, God, Jesus athiest ect)
shall come walking after their own lusts which basically means that they don't want God telling them what to do for example they don't want God telling them they are not allowed to commit adultery, fornication which is sex before marriage, stealing.

And many more things things.
But there is nothing wrong with God's laws he is a Loving God who just wants to save you from his judgement.
And I believe that lot's people will face his judgement because they think they are better than their Creator.

Which is my totally humbled, honest, non-biased and correct opinion on the topic.
condeelmaster

Con

"And my break down is the scoffers which are people who mock; (the bible, God, Jesus atheist ect)
shall come walking after their own lusts which basically means that they don't want God telling them what to do for example they don't want God telling them they are not allowed to commit adultery, fornication which is sex before marriage, stealing."

You are getting it wrong. It's false that atheist don't believe in god just because they want to escape the law. Morality can exists without god.

"But there is nothing wrong with God's laws he is a Loving God who just wants to save you from his judgement.
And I believe that lot's people will face his judgement because they think they are better than their Creator."

I understand that god may be a loving entity. Nevertheless, I won't believe in something just because it is good. I want to believe in something which has a logical argument behind.
Also, atheist do not believe that they are better than god, they just believe he does not exist, that's it.

Again, atheism is not about arrogance or escaping morality, but about searching for an argumented truth.
Debate Round No. 2
Thiest_1998

Pro

I'm not saying morality can't exist without God I'm saying without God some people have no basis for thier morality and do very bad example Paul pot, Hitler, stalin ect and just because you think you can be good without God doesn't mean everything you are doing that isn't correct everyday things that you may think is fine but isn't.

If you want to believe in things that are logical then why don't you believe in God because if you're an athiest which means you think that there is no God which means you believe that we just came here out of nothing from nowhere.
It's like me saying the pyramids appeared out of thin air nobody built them there is no record of people building them and the stones are so heavy no even modern technology can lift the stones let alone drag them and stack them on top of each other in precise order.
And you know what I just said made no sense because a pyramid is not a natural accuring building that appears out of nowhere just like the world, and the universe so complex and beautiful and you think it came out of nowhere.

I think you need to rethink about your Faith in my totally honest, humbled and unbiased opinion on the topic
condeelmaster

Con

" I'm saying without God some people have no basis for their morality and do very bad example Paul pot, Hitler, Stalin "

I know those people were bad, but not because they were atheist. I can give you a large list of people who was/is bad and still believe in God. For instance, David Koresh was a great believer but he killed like 80 innocent people. Actually, the World's Most Prolific Serial Killers are Devout Christians (http://king-dave.newsvine.com...).
Then, morality is not about religion, but about rationalism. If you are an irrational being you will lack of morality, doesn't matter if you believe or not in god.

As a side note, you mentioned comunist dictators, and as a matter of fact, comunism was founded by jewish and christians.


" If you want to believe in things that are logical then why don't you believe in God because if you're an atheist which means you think that there is no God which means you believe that we just came here out of nothing from nowhere."


I can logically disagree with this. Your argument is basically this: all things came from somewhere, then we must came from somewhere, that somewhere is our creator: God. This is a very intuitive argument but is flawed. If you say that everything that exist must have a creator, and then you say god exists, then god must have a creator. But god can't have a creator, that would contradict his nature. As you can see, this argument is self defeating.


"I think you need to rethink about your Faith in my totally honest, humbled and unbiased opinion on the topic"

Thanks for worrying but, as you can see, I rethought this a lot, and I have reached to these conclusions.
Also, I don't have a faith, cause faith is opinion without reasoning, and I always search for opinions with logical arguments behind.

Interesting debate so far, very polite to be a religious one. Cheers!
Debate Round No. 3
Thiest_1998

Pro

At onepoint during David's Koresh's life he said it is time to kill God's faithfuls so I very much doubt he was a believe just because he grew up in the church doesn't mean he's accepted the faith.

What's wrong with communism.

God has always been around there has.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1. KJV
You can't go before the beginning.

It's more logical to say that we just came from outta nowhere.

btw you're very polite for an atheist. The most polite I've ever met.

One more thing what are your answers on these questions?

1.Who am I?

2.Why am I here?

3.Where do I come from?

4. Where do I go when I die?

Have a nice Day God bless and I Love You with the Love of God :)
condeelmaster

Con

"You can't go before the beginning."

Why? I mean, every beginning is caused by something, and everything has a beginning. So there must be something before our universe. That's why I believe in the cyclical nature of existence. Every universe has a beginning and an end, and when one ends another starts, the big bang and the big crunch.


"btw you're very polite for an atheist. The most polite I've ever met."

Well thanks hahaha. I feel this discussion about the existence of god and the truth value of the Christian god generates a lot of hate. People don't tolerate that other have different opinions. So when you find two people arguing about this in a respectful way you get quite surprised.


"One more thing what are your answers on these questions?"

This questions are pretty interesting, I would like to here your own opinion about these.

1) Who am I?

Well, I could say that I'm my body, but that's not true. My body is separated form myself, my body is just a "tool".
Then I could say that I'm my emotions, but that's not true. Emotions fade away. I feel emotions, I'm not emotions.
Maybe I could say that I'm my thoughts, but that's false. I have thoughts, I'm not them.

Then, what's left? Consciousness. I'm pure consciousness. I'm the one who has thoughts and feels emotions and dictates what to do to my body. I'm a consciousness. The only indubitable thing to me is that my conchies exists.

2) Why am I here?

The simple question would be because my parents had sex. But that's not your question, you are talking about what's my purpose here.

I had different thought about this throughout my life. Nowadays, I believe in the purposelessness.

If you observe nature It has no purpose. You watch birds go twee twee twee, what's the purpose of that? You can say that it is a mate calling, quite purposeful. But why they need that? You can say "because they need to survive". But why they need to survive. And there's where answers are gone. Then, nature is indeed purposeless.

Is this bad? No. For example, music is purposeless. You don't dance to that nice song with an aim, you just do it for fun.

If everything around us is purposeless, why we should be purposeful? I believe we should be purposeless, we should live life just enjoying, without any pretension.


3) Where do I come from?

Again, the simple answer would be from my mother's inside. But you don't want that answer. You are asking where humanity come from?

Well, this time the answer is simpler. We are the product of natural selection, we are like this because of evolution.


4) Where do I go when I die?

We are basically energy. We are formed by energy. When we die our energy returns to the universe. This means, energy was used to create us, so when we die our energy is used to create others.

Energy is not created, energy is just transformed. So the energy that forms us now was previously forming other stuff. Then, when we stop to exist, our energy will form other stuff.


Thanks for the love, I appreciate it. Love to you too! Cheers!

Debate Round No. 4
Thiest_1998

Pro

I think God is the beginning and he is the end of the universe and all that exists within it.

I don't believe in the big bang aka evolution, except for micro evolution which happens for many reasons;
1. When there is evidence it's "always" disproved.
2. It to me baffles logic that something so amazing design such as the universe, the human eye/body can come from random chance.
If you would like to hear some of my opinions on contradictions on the topic I would highly suggest you watch this video at least 5-10 minutes.

Btw when you see the title please don't be offended it's just the best video I know on the topic.

https://youtu.be...

It is true people do get angry on the topic of Christianity for no reason just like the bible says. And very true.

John 15:25
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

I was hoping you'd ask me that.
1. Who am I?
I am a born again Christian who loves God: you the people reading this debate and the people who don't with all my Heart.

2.Why am I here?
To love everyone as God loves me obey his laws, and live in peace and harmony.

3.Where do I come from?
I come from a creator who loves me and you very much and wants us to live a happy and loving life.

4. Where do I go when I die

Well because I am a born again Christian I will go to heaven and live in happiness forever!

Well I disagree energy needs to be created like for example fire it doesn'tstart by itself it needs someone to ignite it.
And when we die I believe that it cannot create anything because a dead body is a waste product and the only time.
And I believe that energy doesn't form into anything.

If you're not sure why you're here who you are or/and where you go when you die why don't you repeat these words out loud.

Dear God I'm not sure whether you exist can you reveal yourself to me show me your presence, show me your love reveal yourself to me in Jesus name Amen

This is thiest 1998 signing off I love all with the love of God and stay bless.
condeelmaster

Con

The evolution thing is quite interesting to debate. In my opinion, evolution is logical and proved. No one has truly falsified evolution in a scientific sense.


I had read books from Dr. Kent but they don't seem as conclusive as Darwin's ones.


" except for micro evolution"

This really surprise me everytime I hear It. Micro evolution and Macro evolution are terms invented way after Darwin's theory. The Darwinian evolution does not make this differentiation. However, if you want to talk in those terms, if micro evolution exist, macro evolution has to exist too. Add up lots of micro evolution steps and you will have a macro evolution step.



". It to me baffles logic that something so amazing design such as the universe, the human eye/body can come from random chance."

Well, but applying that logic where does god come from? God is way more complex than the human body, so he needs a creator too.


I got intrigued by on of your questions.

You said you were a born again Christian who loves ..... But that does not define you at all. I mean, you are a body or a mind? Matter, spirit or both?


" I disagree energy needs to be created like for example fire it doesn'tstart by itself it needs someone to ignite it."

What I said was not a metaphorical statement, but a scientific one. Energy is not created, just transformed. Taking the fire example, energy is not being created. The energy needed to start a fire comes from the thing that ignites it. For instance, if you light a fire with two sticks, you rub them generating friction. That friction causes the sticks to release some of their energy. That energy causes the start of the fire.


" I believe that energy doesn't form into anything."

Actually, matter is energy. Matter is formed by energy. I mean, matter is atoms. Atoms are protons electrons an neutrons. Those are formed by quarks. Finally, quarks are just an energy wave. Then, matter is an energy wave, nothing more than that.


Great debate! Hope to have more debates like this one. Love for everyone!
Debate Round No. 5
52 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
What losses?
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
Jonan4tor
Can we just cut our losses and go home?
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
Just get one evidence from the debate and reintroduce it to me I missed it
Posted by condeelmaster 1 year ago
condeelmaster
I mean there are lots of arguments against god: the imposibility of omnipotence, the contradiction in the intelligence design argument, the contridiction between cultures, and so on.
Posted by condeelmaster 1 year ago
condeelmaster
thiest 1998:

I didn't say I gave the evidence in this debate, but I have it. There's plenty of evidence that, in my opinion, makes the most probable option the non existence of god.
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
Jonan4tor
Well this is about God,and I said "Jesus,this is going on forever" and there's the whole Jesus thing in there
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
condeelmaster
Sorry I must have missed it; what was the evidence you gave?
Posted by Thiest_1998 1 year ago
Thiest_1998
Jonan4tor
I don't get it
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
Jonan4tor
Jesus,this going on forever.

BA DUM PTSS
Posted by condeelmaster 1 year ago
condeelmaster
Don't be like that! I do have evidence. So I don't believe that.
Just believing there's no god would be silly, I made a reasoning and I reach the conclusion god does not exist. Maybe I'm wrong? Yes, maybe. However that doesn't mean I believe. It just means that I apply an skeptical doubt to every opinion I have.
No votes have been placed for this debate.