The Instigator
kgftw
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
J.Kenyon
Con (against)
Winning
52 Points

Why god exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/29/2010 Category: Science
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,644 times Debate No: 13829
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (9)

 

kgftw

Pro

I would wish to i suppose retry my first attempt which was just a mere test of this website, as it is my first time using it.

As i can see I am dealing with quite a few atheists, I do wish to debate but also better my knowledge of the subject. OK lets get started.

1. For your first argument you said that there was a lack of evidence for a god, which is precisely what I said you did not disprove god, you did not give an argument of why a god can't exist. Anyway I will give you an argument.

2. Everything in the universe must have a cause or creator so wouldn't that mean the universe must have a creator.

3. If the universe was made by the "Big Bang" which I assume you think then why is the universe so fined toned to have the possibility of life existing so perfctly.
J.Kenyon

Con

Thanks, Pro, for challenging me to a rematch.

== Rebuttals ==

C1 - Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Perhaps this could be more aptly stated as "absence of evidence is not *proof* of absence." Absence of evidence for X counts against the existence of X just in case we should expect to find more evidence for X if X actually exists. Suppose that if God exists, it is very likely that we should find a certain kind of evidence. By contrast, if God does not exist, it is very unlikely we should find such evidence. If no evidence is found and all other factors are equal, following Baye's theorem, it is probable that God does not exist.[1] I don't find Pro's arguments particularly convincing for reasons I will get to shortly. Moreover, I think the assumption that if God exists we should expect to find good evidence is reasonable. Therefore, a fortiori, God probably does not exist.

C2 - Cosmological argument

On theism, God is a brute fact explaining the existence of the cosmos. On naturalism, the cosmos is a brute fact that is ultimately unexplained. The task for the proponent of the cosmological argument is to show that God is more likely to exist without an explanation than the cosmos, which Pro has not done.

C3 - Teleological argument

The improbability of a given scenario does not ipso facto point to anything. Suppose there is a 1 in 1,000,000 of any given person winning the lottery. Just because I happen to win is not evidence of tampering. The anthropic principle explains that if the universe were not fine tuned for life, we could not be having this conversation, just as we would not express any particular shock if someone other than ourselves won the lottery.

== Con Case ==

C1 - The problem of evil

William Rowe's evidential argument from evil is considered the "gold standard" of its kind in contemporary philosophical circles.[2] It is as follows:

(1) There probably exist instances of intense suffering which an omnipotent, omniscient being could have prevented without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.
(2) An omniscient, wholly good being would prevent the occurrence of any intense suffering it could, unless it could not do so without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse.
.:. Therefore, there probably does not exist an omnipotent, omniscient, wholly good being.

Examples of gratuitous suffering that support the first premise might include plagues, earthquakes, hurricanes, world wars, the Holocaust, etc. The second premise is uncontroversial.

C2 - The problem of non-belief

Charles Echelbarger argues that the Gospel message contains three essential propositions. (1) There is a being who rules the entire universe. (2) This being has a son. (3) He has sent his son to be the savior of humanity.

Let situation S be the situation of all, or nearly all, humans since the time of Jesus of Nazareth coming to believe all three propositions of the Gospel message by the time of their physical death.

(1) If the God of evangelical Christianity were to exist, then he would:
a. Be able to bring about situation S.
b. Want to bring about situation S, i.e., have it among his desires.
c. Not want anything else that necessarily conflicts with his desire to bring about situation S as strongly as he wants to bring about situation S.
d. Always act in accord with his own highest purposes.
(2) If a being who has all four properties listed above were to exist, then situation S would have to obtain.
(3) Situation S does not obtain.
(4) Therefore, there does not exist a being who has all four properties listed in P1.
.:. Therefore, the God of Biblical Christianity does not exist.

|| CONCLUSION ||

Pro's three arguments for theism ultimately fail for the reasons I've outlined. On the other hand, I've given two positive arguments for atheism. Judging solely on the evidence presented thus far by both sides, it is unlikely that God exists.

The resolution is negated.

References:

1. http://blog.sigfpe.com...

2. http://www.iep.utm.edu...
Debate Round No. 1
kgftw

Pro

I do not wish to argue anymore I honestly do not know alot about this topic I don't know why I wanted to start a debate but you did well.

Best Regards,
Pro
J.Kenyon

Con

Thanks, Pro. I appreciate your humility. I hope you learn a lot here at DDO, I know I have.

Extend my arguments, vote Con.
Debate Round No. 2
kgftw

Pro

I Just want to say one last thing, it is easier in this argument to be con
J.Kenyon

Con

Extend my arguments.

The resolution is negated.

Best,
J.Kenyon
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Elmakai 6 years ago
Elmakai
@J.Kenyon: At the moment it doesn't seem that votebombing will be an issue. It could change in the future, though. I find it very childish and annoying.
Posted by J.Kenyon 6 years ago
J.Kenyon
Voting for myself to counter the obvious votebomber...
Posted by gizmo1650 6 years ago
gizmo1650
I just clicked accept challenge :(
Posted by kgftw 6 years ago
kgftw
yes it is intended for a certain person buy you can disregard that and take it in your self i guess
Posted by Demauscian 6 years ago
Demauscian
You are talking in second person, are you meaning for a specific person to join this debate, because I don't know why else you could assume what my arguments would be.
Posted by Illegalcombatant 6 years ago
Illegalcombatant
I think you need some more details, your topic just says God ? but what exactly is the argument that God exists ? that God can't be proven not to exist ? that God existence is more probable than its negation ?etc
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Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by TheDizziestLemon 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by J.Kenyon 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by I_vin_zee_game 6 years ago
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