The Instigator
LaughItUpLydia
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
SkepticalDebatee
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Why is Evolution more popular than Creationism? You have everything to lose, as an Evolutionist.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
LaughItUpLydia
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 627 times Debate No: 53381
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

LaughItUpLydia

Pro

Please read all of this before debating so you get my point of view. Thanks!

History tells us that over the years, many people have put together, added, and adjusted the theory of Evolution to make it believable and scientific (in a way). But, alongside the theory of Evolution there has always been Christians and other religions that believe in Creationism, and Creationists have actually been around for a much longer period of time than Evolutionists. Creationism, in my opinion, goes along with Christianity because of the belief in God. (You must be a Creationist-type person if you're a Christian and believe the Bible.) Why is it that people, in general, go for Evolution? If you know about the Christian faith you know that they believe in the Rapture: when Jesus is coming again to make a NEW heaven and a new earth. God will separate the ones who haven't repented from the ones that have, and the ones that haven't will suffer in Hell. Not that it's about 'Quick, believe in God or you'll be punished severely,' but say that Christianity is correct. What happens when you die? First they'd be brought to the Judgment Seat. Then, if you're a Christian (assuming the Bible and Christianity is true), you'd go to heaven, and according to how God "judges" you the non-Christians would go to Hell. What's the risk? Why risk it?! Evolution gives you nothing, produces no gifts, and if you were wrong you'd have everything to lose.

Responding to this debate you can be an Evolutionist, Atheist, or in-between (not sure yet), but please express how you think of this topic, and why.
SkepticalDebatee

Con

The reasons are quite simple.

First of all with Protestants there is no reason not to believe in evolution. The path to heaven in the King James version (One of many verses stating this.) goes as "In whom (Jesus) we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Ephesians 1:7 (http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...=) This means that even if believing in evolution is a sin you can't be punished for it. So, as there are no consequences. people tend to believe in whatever is more likely. That would be evolution. Whatever your beliefs you can't deny that there is more evidence for evolution than creation.

Secondly on the Catholic side. Pius XII, a deeply conservative man, directly addressed the issue of evolution in a 1950 encyclical, Humani Generis. The document makes plain the pope"s fervent hope that evolution will prove to be a passing scientific fad, and it attacks those persons who "imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution "explains the origin of all things." Nonetheless, Pius XII states that nothing in Catholic doctrine is contradicted by a theory that suggests one specie might evolve into another"even if that specie is man. The Pope declared: "The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experiences in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter"for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God." (http://law2.umkc.edu...) So Catholics aren't bound by their Pope not to believe in evolution. This brings you right back to the Protestant side. There is no reason not to.
Debate Round No. 1
LaughItUpLydia

Pro

The problem which comes up here is this: you quoted Bible verses, but do you believe in the Bible? There are many verses that simply state you can't believe in Evolution and God, here are some (ESV):

John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, the man became a living creature.

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, those not according to Christ.

These are just little things that prove that you can't believe in the Bible, God and Christianity ALONGSIDE Evolution. That doesn't work.

I am not Catholic. That is entirely different from the Creationist-type Protestant because of the Popes and extra rules that make Catholic faith a strict religion. When Jesus died it was the Leaders, the Authorities of the Church, who killed Him. My "type" does not obey the religious leaders any more than God, (although we respect them, don't get me wrong), nor are they equal, but instead we conform and look to God for directions and knowledge.

Please give me some convincing, and real, evidence that evolution happened. Answer this in your head: does evolution take faith or is it all facts?

Give me an example, just one, of evidence that a kind of species you know of turned into a different kind of species. Evidence I can believe because someone actually saw it happen. Now answer the same question as above: are you using faith as you believe in evolution? Also, (more evidence I need), how did life originate? It all doesn't make sense. And that is one place where Creationism is strong and more evident. What if you're wrong about Evolution? You still go to the Judgment Seat, and that Bible verse you quoted doesn't help you there, does it.
SkepticalDebatee

Con

Evidence for evolution. (http://evolution.berkeley.edu..., http://evolution.berkeley.edu..., http://evolution.berkeley.edu...) Etc. etc.

"Creationists have actually been around for a much longer period of time than Evolutionists." So what?

"You must be a Creationist-type person if you're a Christian and believe the Bible." No you don't. Catholics as I said don't have to. (Yes, Catholics ARE Christian.) Protestants, on the other hand, also don't have to as Genesis is often taken to be mostly or completely symbolic. I assume that you do not take the book of Revelations as completely literal. Why is Genesis any different?

If you are arguing that people should all be Christian instead then I am not sure why you brought up evolution at all. Is it not possible that any of the other thousands of religions could be true? As for atheists it's not really a matter of choice. I can't become a Christian right now because I do not believe it. If you told me that half of the worlds population died ten minutes ago I couldn't possibly believe you. It is absurd and you haven't given me any evidence. Christianity is no different-in fact it has the added problem that it has internal contradictions. (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
LaughItUpLydia

Pro

If you are a Christian, you believe the Bible, right? (That's including Catholics too.) Christians believe in God and that God inspired the Bible that He said the Bible is true, correct? And the Bible says that God CREATED everything. So yes, you would believe in Creationism if you were a Christian.

This all ties into the question 'why people go for evolution more than Creationism' so I will address the points of evolutionary "evidence" you made in your previous argument.

The insert for "evidence" you gave (at the top) just goes to show how much change the evolutionists/archeologists can put into the actual fossils they find. First, I challenge you, can you find or think of one complete fossil that evolutionists call 68 million years old? I'm surprised that people believe that those fossil collections are legit...I think it's preposterous to believe that ANY fossils can survive for such a long period of time. How do you know the fossils are this old? Look at this link: answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v7/n4/soft-tissue-in-fossils.

You didn't give any evidence of one species changing into another. Can you? That would put a lot more perspective into your theory.

The "contradictions" in the website you gave (at the bottom) answered for themselves. If you click on the questions, on your link, it shows the myth and the correct answer of the 2 contradictions below the graph!

If you don't agree with me saying that Christians are Creationists then what I'm about to say doesn't work: I think the reason Evolution is more popular than Creationism is obvious. It's the society, the government, all that kind of stuff because what's the majority in America, Democrats or Republicans? The Liberals are more common, and you bet it's true that 99.99% of them aren't Christians, none the less Christians who really BELIEVE that God created the world and loves us all. Also, what is taught in public schools, where half the nation's children goes? Evolution, not Creationism, and they are taught that it is fact, not theory. You can at-least admit that Evolution is a theory along with Creationism.

But what's the argument here. It's why the majority of people take the risk of there being a God. On that case I will say that there is no good reason to chance it like this.

Here are some reasons to believe God created the universe and that the Bible is true. 1st, humans are not eternal therefore have not seen the past ourselves and cannot in any way know the future, so not by any human standard can we prove that God is eternal and all-knowing. Only God can tell if He has always existed and will always! But just think for a moment all the fulfilled prophesies in the Bible. In It God says that there are MANY times that new theories will come up and try to "take the mind" but he is and always will be the true King. 2nd, intelligent design is seen everywhere. How can you believe that this is all by chance? Ridiculous!!! 3rd, there is lots of operational science involved with Bible, like on the account of the Flood: scientists found billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water...all around the world! They also found that the Universe is logical and orderly, and that is exactly what the Bible claims the Creator to be. Love, reason, logic, mortality, and knowledge are all impossible to explain using the evolution theory. Impossible. Their only explanation is the Multi-Universe theory which doesn't have any proof at all. This concludes that Biblical faith is not what society says it is, it is not blind, but rational.

4th, Isaac Asimov, the late anti-Creationist, said this: "In man is a three-pound brain which, as far as we know, is the most complex and orderly arrangement of matter in the Universe." It is much more complex than the most complicated computer ever built. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that if man's highly intelligent brain discovered the computer, than the human brain was also a product of design?
SkepticalDebatee

Con

"The problem which comes up here is this: you quoted Bible verses, but do you believe in the Bible?" No I don't. I was merely using a biblical quote to show why Christians don't have "everything to lose as an evolutionist". They don't believe that believing in evolution will send them to hell because they believe they are saved. I don't believe I will be sent to hell because I don't believe in hell.

"These are just little things that prove that you can't believe in the Bible, God and Christianity ALONGSIDE Evolution. That doesn't work." No they don't. As I said many people take Genesis as symbolic.

I mean, if this is your reasoning then people have to believe the Earth is flat to be Christian.

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." Revelation 7:1

Here are some examples of macroevolution. (http://examples.yourdictionary.com...)

"What if you're wrong about Evolution?" I still won't be wrong about the Bible. Unless you can prove that your God exists this debate is pointless.
Debate Round No. 3
LaughItUpLydia

Pro

All you have to do is look around you to see the fingerprint of God. The next time you're out in the open, at night, and you look up to see the moon and millions of stars in a beautiful sky, and you wonder about the truth, do something different. The next time you wonder how life really got here. (You don't have any physical proof of anything as to how the world came to be, nor do I, so everyone wonders at some point.) Do something that goes against your skepticism. This is something that you've probably never done before and would sound crazy, but I encourage you, try it, and meanwhile having the mind and heart of a child. Go ahead and whisper something to Jesus. Do you remember when you were about 10-11 years old and you started thinking about where you came from, how you got here, and the concept of absolute nothingness? Only if you give it a try you will learn...and wait for an answer, because there will be an answer. Maybe not right away. See, think of it this way: if God were to show Himself up, like write on the clouds that 'Jesus is King' and 'Repent Now or Suffer' would you automatically believe there was a God? You'd probably think it was an illusion; a hoax, something somebody did to get your attention.

As a Christian you believe that you are saved. As a Christian God guides you along the path of life. It all fits together if you keep seeking the Word and God helps you along the way. He shows you more about His creations every day. But it doesn't always work that way and sometimes, it can give you the notion to just give up saying 'it'd be easier to leave all these theories alone and just live and die."

My point is that there is no reason to live as an evolutionist. No matter what evidences you have it can't be compared to the beauty that God shows us in front of our very eyes!! When you die will you go to Heaven or Hell? That depends because of course if the Bible is not true than you will just decompose into the earth. But if it is true? Than your whole life was worthless. Try to put yourself in another person's shoes, someone who is willing to believe that the Earth was created but Intelligent Design.

Facts are neutral. Creationists and Evolutionists live in the same world with the same facts but they come from the mouth and brain of different perspectives. We both interpret the evidence in our world differently and try to make them work for OUR theory. About the Book of Revelation, it is much different from the book of Genesis because they are written by different hands with different intentions. The book of Psalms is mostly worship and prayers to the Lord. Most of the books recall history, like a diary of someone from that time. Yes, we take the book of Genesis literally...because of the facts it brings up in it! You might not believe in the Bible, but I do. And I believe it gives me the right basis to understand this universe and correctly interpret the facts around me.

Back to the problem that public schools are teaching Evolution as fact, do you not think that all those children should have the choice between two theories? To have the chance to choose, at least? It still also has to do with the government, the way things are run. People are taught Evolution and are only given the reasons Christianity is shunned on, not the reasons that some OTHER people BELIEVE in the Bible and Christianity. Don't just automatically believe it's true because all "the scientists have undeniable proof that the earth and everything in it evolves" and "every non-religious person believes it so I should too." Put yourself in a spot where you're seeking both theories, comparing which fossils and evidence is more legit. This goes for everybody.

Thanks for debating.
SkepticalDebatee

Con

"you would believe in Creationism if you were a Christian." But most of them don't. I don't see why this is so hard a concept to grasp. Not everyone takes the Bible as literal. Whether they think it symbolic, mistranslated or edited they don't believe in a literal creation story.

First, I challenge you, can you find or think of one complete fossil that evolutionists call 68 million years old? " Here is one that I found from 100 Million years ago. It may not be a dinosaur, but it is complete nonetheless. (http://io9.com...)

"I'm surprised that people believe that those fossil collections are legit...I think it's preposterous to believe that ANY fossils can survive for such a long period of time. How do you know the fossils are this old?" Here is how I know. (http://science.howstuffworks.com...)

"You didn't give any evidence of one species changing into another. Can you? That would put a lot more perspective into your theory." I already did in my last round, (and it was ignored) but here are some more examples. (http://phylointelligence.com...)

"The "contradictions" in the website you gave (at the bottom) answered for themselves. If you click on the questions, on your link, it shows the myth and the correct answer of the 2 contradictions below the graph!" You didn't look through all of them did you? Only certain ones have Biblically correct answer. (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...) This one shows the contradiction of unforgivable sin. Note that it is not believing in evolution that is considered unforgivable, but rather blaspheming against the Holy Ghost.

"The Liberals are more common, and you bet it's true that 99.99% of them aren't Christians, none the less Christians who really BELIEVE that God created the world and loves us all." (http://www.people-press.org...)

"Also, what is taught in public schools, where half the nation's children goes? Evolution, not Creationism, and they are taught that it is fact, not theory. You can at-least admit that Evolution is a theory along with Creationism." Creationism has no scientifically verified evidence, therefore it can't be taught in science class even if it many people believe it. Evolution is both a fact and a theory. (http://www.nas.edu...)

"But what's the argument here. It's why the majority of people take the risk of there being a God. On that case I will say that there is no good reason to chance it like this." Like I said, there are thousands of religions, and you have done nothing to separate yours. You also have failed to attack my argument that I can't actually believe in something that, well, I don't believe.

You don't provide sources so I can't attack all of these vague claims, but I will attack the first two.
1.The prophecies of the Bible are self fulfilling. (http://news.google.com...)
2.Actually, if you know anything about an environment you can make reliable evolutionary predictions. (http://www.theguardian.com...)

"Wouldn't it be logical to assume that if man's highly intelligent brain discovered the computer, than the human brain was also a product of design?" Here is how the mind developed evolutionarily. (http://www.scientificamerican.com...)

My opponent has failed to provide evidence for creationism, or make his religion more trustworthy than any other. Whereas I have provided evidence of evolution and given discredit to the Bible. Therefore I urge a Con vote.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by InsaneSanity 11 months ago
InsaneSanity
Well this is a late comment but I'd like to point out that no, you don't have to believe in creationism to be a Christian. Creationism is the belief that everything in Genesis that has to do with the creation of the world is literal.I, and many others, do not believe as such, because the 7 days thing coincides perfectly with how the universe formed according to science. There are more than just evolutionist and creationist views on how the world was created, one (such as myself) could believe that evolution and the Big Bang did happen, but that God made sure it would happen in such a way that the world would be created how he wanted it. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by ThatOneCoolGuy 2 years ago
ThatOneCoolGuy
Just a brief thing, the Pro is claiming that Cbrisjust a brief complaint. Pro said that Christianity is a theory. It is a hypothesis, no offence intended, but there's simply no proof, while Evolution has lots.
Posted by dapperface 2 years ago
dapperface
So basically, since some things in the Bible are known to be accurate, that makes the god claims in it true? Spiderman takes place in New York City, that does not make Spiderman real. And as far as being "the only religion based on truth and argument and evidence", you must not be familiar with Islamic apologists. They have their own brand of that as well. Even if this weren't true though, that would only be an argument that Christianity is unique, not that its supernatural claims are necessarily true.
Posted by LaughItUpLydia 2 years ago
LaughItUpLydia
Catholicism is a branch of Christianity. While Catholics consider themselves Christians, Christians do not vice-versa. Christianity is the only religion based on truth and argument and evidence.

bethinking.org/is-Christianity-right-out-of-all-the-religions

The book of Luke in the New Testament, Luke tries (successfully) to record accurate history. Legend isn't like this. Consider the Pools at Bethesda. Read on in the website I gave

As long as you believe that Jesus is the Lord you will go to Heaven. God is very clear that death is the end of al chances. In Revelation we learn about the Great White Throne, the Judgment Seat (in the debate). Look at this site: gotquestions.org/second-chance-salvation

The Bible says "I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of Salvation." (2nd Corinthians 6:8). Take the warning seriously! Remember, salvation is not through good works, but by believing that
He is Lord and trusting in Him for guidance. He came to this earth and suffered and died to pay the price of all our sins! Confess your sins and to Him today, then ask to be cleansed by his mercy and for Him to save you.
Posted by nonprophet 2 years ago
nonprophet
Pascal's wager has been debunked. What if Islam is the right religion?
Posted by dapperface 2 years ago
dapperface
How is this in round three and Con has not brought up Pascal's Wager? This could have been won extremely quickly. Pro is not arguing from truth, they're arguing from consequences of their particular religious belief should it be true.

What if there is a god, but it's not the Christian one, but punishes them for being credulous and rewards people who accepted evolution? Winning this debate is that easy.
Posted by wxyz2000 2 years ago
wxyz2000
I have a question for the pro side...
But first, I have to apologize for my ignorance.

There are a myriad of religions in this world. From Dante`s Inferno (I know this is fiction, and am only using this to illustrate a point), the Epicureans burned in the sixth circle of hell for being blasphemous. If hell exists, and if I chose the "wrong" religion, wouldn't I burn (metaphorically speaking) in hell as well? Protestants and Catholics (I am only using these two as they seem to be the main religions in this discussion), only one of them can be correct. I am still undecided about this issue and eagerly await your response.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by NiamC 2 years ago
NiamC
LaughItUpLydiaSkepticalDebateeTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Very good arguments, both of which are very extensive. Pro, why did you not show many sources??