The Instigator
Marethyu1790
Con (against)
The Contender
Conservatism
Pro (for)

Why should Donald Trump Become President?

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Debate Round Forfeited
Marethyu1790 has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/1/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 422 times Debate No: 94339
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Marethyu1790

Con

As we all know, Donald Trump is the GOP presidential nominee for the republican party. I have looked at him and his history in depth and can see no reason why America should make him our president. I am not an avid Hillary supporter, so please do not make any unreasonable arguments there. In a calm, coherent matter, I would enjoy the challenge of debating someone in this matter.
Conservatism

Pro

I accept and look forward to the debate. Good luck to the Con. The rules haven't been set but I presume they are the standard format?

1. Acceptance
2. Arguments
3. Arguments
4. Final arguments
5. Conclusion
Debate Round No. 1
Marethyu1790

Con

Thank you for accepting! Good Luck to you!

Donald Trump has no experience in the field of management of a country and her people. His main arguments are as follows. He claims he is tough, a good businessman, he answers to no corporate money (an example he chooses is that he's self funding his campaign), and finally he tells it like it is (telling the truth).
For each of these arguments that not only D. Trump puts forth, but his supporters follow him for, I will attempt to disprove them and for each, provide evidence that can concretely support my argument that Donald Trump has no qualities that would make him a worthy candidate for president of the United States of America.

First, he claims he is tough. However he has repeatedly proven that he's remarkably thin skinned. Back in 1988, Spy magazine called him "A Short Fingered vulgarian". Ever since then, the editor of the magazine has repeatedly received pictures from him, all of which had pictures of him where his hand was circled in golden sharpie with the words, "See? Not so short!" Whether his fingers are short or not is not the point here. What is is how sensitive he is about them. And the fact that he used a gold Sharpie to sign them is so quintessentially Donald Trump. Something that gives the passing appearance of wealth, but is really just a cheap tool.

Second, is that he's a good businessman. Once again, is he? He's filed for bankruptcy at least 4 times and once again, to prove my claim over his remarkably thin skin, anyone who talked about the state of his wealth, he has repeatedly threatened to sue them. His own daughter explained the state of his wealth once, saying that she and he father were walking down 5th avenue one day and a homeless person was sitting on the side of the road. He proceeded to point to him saying "That man has 8 billion dollars more than me". If this doesn't explain the state of how good of a businessman he is, then I don't know what will.

Third is that he answers to no corporate money and he is truly independent. He backs up this claim by saying he self funds his campaign. Again, this is also not true. He has loaned his campaign close to a million dollars, but has only personally given around 250,000 dollars. And up to the convention he could pay himself back for the loan with campaign funds. Which he did. And if you don't think there is a significant difference from a gift and a loan, try giving your girlfriend a birthday loan and see how that blows over.

Finally, if all of these untruths he has said aren't enough to convince you that he does not always tell the truth, then check the website Politifact. Over 60% of what he says is untrue.

To wrap up, Donald Trump's arguments for him to be president, make him completely ineligible to be president, due to the fact that they are all almost completely untrue.
Conservatism

Pro

I appreciate the fast and well setup argument. I will first begin by refuting each of the Con's "untruths" about Donald Trump and then continue with my arguments.

Con: "First, he claims he is tough. However he has repeatedly proven that he's remarkably thin skinned"

I just would like to add a quick remark about how the relevance of Donald Trump's physical appearance or quick comments about this does not make him a strong candidate. If you were a famous kid in your high school and the school newspaper put out a nasty remark calling you a "Weak and simple minded fool" I'm pretty sure you will be confused and not happy about that so you'll make a remark regarding the falsity of that. That's the powers of free speech. So whether it is immature or not is clearly up for debate and since we are not Donald Trump, we have no idea exactly what he is thinking whether it was intended to be immature or not. There is only speculation which is up for debate.

Con: "He's filed for bankruptcy at least 4 times and once again, to prove my claim over his remarkably thin skin, anyone who talked about the state of his wealth, he has repeatedly threatened to sue them."

Trump has been involved in over 500 businesses that of which he is an executive of. https://www.washingtonpost.com... That doesn't even involve in all of the investing and decisions he's made for other businesses as well as been a member on some level of decision making. To claim that you will never file for bankruptcy after being in that many entrepreneurial endeavors is not only outrageous, it is statistically impossible. Never in history has ANYONE ever come that far and not been in some financial trouble. Here is a list of some people who are famous that have filed bankruptcy. http://www.businessinsider.com... Now if you look at all of the success he has had, and the return of money brought in. I think you can clearly see that the income generated throughout all of his businesses have far surpassed the margin of error, or negative net income if you will. Forbes has him around $4 billion in net worth.

Con: " Again, this is also not true. He has loaned his campaign close to a million dollars, but has only personally given around 250,000 dollars."

I'm sorry but this statement is completely false. Donald trump has self-funded his campaign at around 60% ($50,000,000) Small individual campaign donations DOUBLE that of large individual corporations. Small at 28% and large at 14% https://www.opensecrets.org... If you look, there are no large corporation donations from Goldman Sachs or any of the big banks/establishment regimes which Donald Trump is advocating against. His entire campaign is built around destroying the establishment and power structure within the White House currently. Lobbyists don't influence him because he is not bought by them.

Con:"try giving your girlfriend a birthday loan and see how that blows over."

I just wanted to quote this cause I thought this was funny haha. Not in a mocking way. I just like the comparison.

Con: "Finally, if all of these untruths he has said aren't enough to convince you that he does not always tell the truth, then check the website Politifact. Over 60% of what he says is untrue"

I took about 25 minutes scanning through plenty of politifact's reasons for calling what he says as "False" and it is insanely clear that they take him not only extremely out of context, but they deem what is true and not true on THEIR own terms. For example: "As usual, Hillary & the Dems are trying to rig the debates so 2 are up against major NFL games." Politifact deems this as a "Pants on Fire!" untruth. This is an outstanding evaluation. It is completely debatable and there is plenty of sources out there to show Hillary Clinton's disorganized and illegal campaign actions. Why else do you think 30,000 bernie supporters started a protest at the DNC aginst Hillary clinton. They also give quotes from others who talk about Donald trump. So it's not just what he says, but others as well. Hillary Clinton spoke a "False" comment about Donald Trump and that is put on the percentage of his "Lies" So it is clearly not that large of a number and politifact is not a very accurate organization.

I'm running out of space but I'll make do. The reason I am voting for Mr. Trump is simple really. I cannot and will not vote for the establishment and the corruption that the Clintons put on the table. It is supremely visible the corruption and indecency she exonerates. She has betrayed the political system and democrats everywhere. From stealing delegates from Bernie Sanders, to carelessly harboring thousands of emails (some even classified) in an unprotected server in her basement which in legality terms is Illegal. Even though the FBI claims there was no criminal intent. That is their ONLY reasoning for clearing the charges. Even though she is now under reinvestigation. I personally don't think ANYONE should be able to run for president if you are under FBI investigation. It is extremely illogical. Mrs. Clinton represents everything of which involved the power structure of the establishment and the corrupt lobbyists of Wall Street. Receiving millions from big banks and giving favors to politicians for their high donations as well as influence among their ranks. Looking at the DNC leaked emails it is clear to see how rigged the primary was aginst Bernie. Many DNC CEO's have resigned just yesterday I believe in light of the events because they clearly have broken the law. If there is a way, could you please change the characters to 10,000? I want to say much more but I only have a couple hundred characters left. I want to include more reasons but I don't think I'll be able to refute your points and then make my arguments. Thanks.
Debate Round No. 2
Marethyu1790

Con

Thank you to my opponent for such a well written, thought out response, I'll begin by trying to back up my claims.

Pro: " So whether it is immature or not is clearly up for debate and since we are not Donald Trump, we have no idea exactly what he is thinking whether it was intended to be immature or not."
I'd first like to thank my opponent for bringing this argument to the table, you are correct, we are not Donald Trump and we don't have any ideas as to what he is thinking. But apparently, neither does he. Repeatedly over the past few months of the campaign for president, his choices have been wildly inconsistent. He has been pro choice and pro life, for and against assault weapon bans, in favor of both bringing in Syrian refugees and deporting them from the country. This inconsistency is troubling especially when former Grand Wizard of the KKK, David Duke endorsed him. Trump then claimed he had no idea who David Duke was, and did not condemn white supremacist, saying he knew nothing of white supremacy.(next part sarcasm) And of course he needed to think about it first before later condemning them, its not like they were Mexican or Muslim.

Pro: "Trump has been involved in over 500 businesses that of which he is an executive of"
You are correct, let me just take a bit of time to go over a few of them. He has claimed that "If I put my name on something, you know it must be good" Most of his businesses have been very not good through the past. To name a few, Trump Shuttle, which no longer exists, Trump vodka, which was discontinued, Trump magazine, which folded, Trump World Magazine, which also folded, Trump University, over which he's being sued, and the travel booking site, GoTrump.com, whose brief existence was the thorn in the side of anyone who thought that GotRump.com had a single thing worth masturbating to. And finally, once again, he has loaned around 60% all of which he paid himself back for with campaign funds taken from those 2 sources.

Pro: To sum up, politifact is inaccurate (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Politifact has been a reliable source of information as a fact checker for years. I will admit, they have been biased in the past, favoring democrats over republicans, only by a SMALL margin. And if you really want to check again, 2 more reliable sources I have used are FactCheck.org, and OpenSecrets.org.

Finally, if why you are voting for Trump is because he's not Hillary, that's your preference and I respect that, but basically what you are saying is just that, the main reason I'm voting for Trump is that he's not Hillary. And Trump has said and done many more questionable things than Hillary could possibly do, he has ruined lives by speaking lies against them, has repeatedly questioned our President's citizenship, advocating for not only a temporary ban on a certain religion in America, but also pushed for building a completely unrealistic wall at the border between Mexico and the United states. Which I may had, he still says will be an actual wall, paid for by the Mexican government. And finally, publicly disrespected the fallen son of 2 Muslims, who died in the US armed forces for our country. Once again, I am still not convinced as to why he should even be a candidate for president.

Also Got it, extending it to 10,000 characters.
Conservatism

Pro

I appreciate the fast response.

[Rebuttals]

Con: "we don't have any ideas as to what he is thinking. But apparently, neither does he. Repeatedly over the past few months of the campaign for president, his choices have been wildly inconsistent."

The con also mentioned earlier about Donald J. Trump not being a politician as well, and not having sufficient experience in political endeavors possibly throwing the country into chaos. Well, this is an extremely loaded question. I would like to be clear on one thing. I do not support everything that Trump supports. In fact, I was voting for Ted Cruz. Moving on. There is always the chance of any politician throwing the entire country under the bus and doing things which are self-motivated and not always in the best interest of the nation. Every voter puts their trust in a candidate because they have faith that it will improve things for America. I'm scared of Trump because I don't know exactly what he will do. I am even more scared of Hillary Clinton because I know exactly what she will do. I highly suggest you look at my debate about the indictment of Hillary. It perfectly lays out how she broke the law concerning the Emails, and the careless acts in Benghazi as well as a few other issues. That way if you read that post, I won't have to re-write my entire case and save room for more arguments.
Trump is a wild card in some respects. As of right now his platform is laid out for anyone to see and that is what I accept as fact that he believes regardless of his previous beliefs. People change, while one can argue that he may still have those "old beliefs" that he once advocated as a democrat, I see no reason to believe so now after listening to him speak.

Con: "Repeatedly over the past few months of the campaign for president, his choices have been wildly inconsistent. He has been pro choice and pro life, for and against assault weapon bans, in favor of both bringing in Syrian refugees and deporting them from the country"

The pro-life and pro-choice flip in belief occurred before his campaign was first announced. Trump believes that abortion on some levels (If the mother's life is threatened or incest) that abortion should be legal. He is now firmly pro-choice which has been consistent throughout his current running campaign. Donald Trump also is a very strong believer in the second amendment. http://www.ontheissues.org... The Con brings up the inconsistency of the republican nominee. While he has been in his past on some issues, so has the democratic nominee. Hillary Clinton has been both Anti-Gay marriage and Pro. She has been very anti-illegal immigration in previous years https://www.youtube.com... and is now proposing amnesty. Her beliefs in economic trade have gone from the support of the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) to advocating against it. So we see equal inconsistency among both candidates and I believe it is only fair to accept what they currently propose as their at moment belief. http://futurefemaleleader.com...

Con: "David Duke endorsed him. Trump then claimed he had no idea who David Duke was, and did not condemn white supremacist, saying he knew nothing of white supremacy."

Donald Trump has disavowed David Duke. http://www.cnn.com...# I'm confused as to what source might have suggested that he had "No idea" who he was or what white supremacy even was. In regards to not first disavowing David Duke, that is still up for debate. I see a clear condemnation of the KKK and no reason to believe he is a racist.

Con: "Most of his businesses have been very not good through the past. "

This is correct, not every businessman will be 100% successful. What is most important is not how many failures he has had, but the profit he has brought in. Margins that supersede even apple. http://www.weeklystandard.com...

"Trump Organization brought in about $605 million in revenue last year, and managed to clear somewhere between $275 and $325 million in profit. That"s a phenomenally high profit margin (which, of course, is a key sign of the health of a business). Trump"s approximately 50 percent margin means his company is more profitable than Pfizer, Gazprom, and Hyundai "

Con: "he has loaned around 60% all of which he paid himself back for with campaign funds taken from those 2 sources."

"In 2015, about $2.7 million was paid to at least seven companies Mr. Trump owns or to people who work for his real estate and branding empire, repaying them for services provided to his campaign."
http://www.nytimes.com...

http://www.politifact.com...

While he is putting the money back into businesses, it is still his money which is going into the campaign. The loans were given to make profit possibly and campaigning. I see nothing wrong with this.

Con: "Pro: To sum up, PolitiFact is inaccurate (Correct me if I'm wrong)"

No, I believe in some cases PolitiFact is correct. In the context of evaluation for Donald Trump, they are not. Like I said, there are multiple times that Politifact called a lie to what Trump said, yet, in reality, it is a debatable topic and seen as fact to some.

Con: " completely unrealistic wall at the border between Mexico and the United states."

http://www.esquire.com...
Not only conservatives, but liberals as well support the wall. Some believe there are other ways the drugs can get through. Donald Trump's plan also includes added border security.
(This will continue on in the next round, i'm out of room again)
I don't think the character count was updated. It still says I have 5,000.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Marethyu1790 10 months ago
Marethyu1790
That Trump should be president.
Posted by warren42 10 months ago
warren42
What is Pro's BoP? That Trump should be president or that Trump is qualified in one particular issue (since you said you can see no reason) to be the President?
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