The Instigator
TheContendr
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Methuselah96
Con (against)
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Why the Christian Trinity is NOT Biblical

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 721 times Debate No: 64713
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
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TheContendr

Pro

I will be debating for why the Christian Trinity is NOT Biblical. Whoever accepts this debate will be arguing for why it IS Biblical. I would like a Christian who actually believes in the Trinity to engage in this debate with me. If you are an atheist or a person who does not believe in the Trinity, please do not accept and play as "Devil's Advocate". We will be using only the King James Bible to cite "evidence" for this debate. Which means, you cannot use quotes or information from any other type of resource or document or book other than the King James Bible.
The first round is acceptance. The second round will be explaining what your worldview on this is and perhaps some questions. The third through fourth will be for either more "proof", questions, or rebuttals. The fifth round is for closing arguments and rebuttals. The Burden of Proof lies on both the Con and the Pro. If you have any other questions, please ask them in the comment section.
Methuselah96

Con

First of all, thank you for initiating this debate. I am a Christian who believes in the Trinity and will argue for why the Trinity is Biblical. As discussed in the comments, the original text of the Bible in its respective languages is the inerrant word of God, so thank you for the opportunity to "use the varying definitions behind the words in the King James Bible" if the need should arise.
Debate Round No. 1
TheContendr

Pro

I believe there is one God and Jesus is His name. I also believe God is indivisible in his being. This is commonly referred to as, "oneness or the oneness of God". Deut. 6:4 proclaims, "Hear O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Jesus refers to Deut. 6:4 as a verse of great importance, the first commandment. He states that "this is the first and great commandment." It is, that is, Deut. 6:4, is the foundation of all faith. Everything we are as Christians rests on the shoulders of this commandment. Which is why, this debate is of such great importance. In John 17:3, Jesus prays to the Father, "And this is life eternal, that they may know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Jesus places eternal life as being contingent upon having a knowledge and a revelation of the true God. As many people like me like to say, "God is the Father in Creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Spirit in emanation. First, before I dig into this deeper, let me say some things that people may not know. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible. The phrase "God the Holy Spirit" is not in the Bible. The phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible, and last, the phrase " three in one" is not in the Bible. This may seem trivial at first, but in my understanding, it is not. Also, I would like to state that I do not believe in modalism at all. The name of God is Jesus. The verse, Matthew 28:19, perfectly illustrates this. Jesus had said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. If you diagram this, you see the titles, "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost", describe the name. What is the name you say? Jesus, it's Jesus. Jesus said in John 5:43, "I am come in my Father's name". If he came in His Father's name.... Then what is the name he came in? Jesus. It's Jesus. http://mballestero.files.wordpress.com...

This a very brief explanation of what I believe of God.
More to come.
Methuselah96

Con

The Bible teaches that there is only one true God and that the Father is God, the Son is God, and Holy Spirit is God. However, the Bible also teaches that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. This is the doctrine of the Trinity.

God is three consubstantial Persons, meaning God is three Persons in one Being. The Bible makes many references to God's plurality in the Old Testament. Genesis 1:26 says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." In this statement God is referring to himself in the plural, which can only mean that God is not a singular person.

Deuteronomy 6:4 is speaking of the Being of God. There is only one true God, the Triune God of the Bible. John 17:3 also helps expound on the Trinity: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." How can God the Son pray to God the Father if they are the same person? Also, how can the Father be the same person as the Son? The distinction is clearly laid out in the previous passage. If God is the Father in Creation, how can the Son be crying out to him after Creation?

The word "trinity" may not be in the Bible, but neither is the word "Bible." Since you like to say, "God is the Father in Creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Spirit in emanation," I don"t see why saying "[the] phrase "God the Holy Spirit" is not in the Bible [and the] phrase "God the Son" is not in the Bible"," has any bearing on your stance.
The name Matthew 28:19 is referring to is God. Those three persons all have the name of God. The same thing applies to John 5:43. The name of the Father is the name of God (YHWH in the Hebrew).
Debate Round No. 2
TheContendr

Pro

-Rebuttals-

Genesis 1:26
This verse is taken out of context to portray "evidence" for the Trinity. Let "us" make man is a usage of words called, "plurality of majesty". "Us" is a common usage among kings and/or queens indicating they are talking to their kingdom. Well, you say, who is God talking to? Simply, the angels. It even clears the word "us" up as obviously not being used to show the Trinity in the next verse. It says in the following verses, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;". Notice it says "his" and "he" indicating a singularity of God and NOT a plurality.

How can the Son pray to the Father?

I would say that you would agree that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God at the same time. Most Christians believe this. You see, although Jesus is God, since he is 100% man, He HAS to pray. Jesus had 100% of man's nature, and since He did, He had to pray. It was man's flesh crying out to God.

The word "Trinity" not in the Bible?

It isn't first of all, as you admitted. Second of all, your argument about the word "Bible" not being in the Bible is entirely invalid. Consider this, the word "Bible" comes from the latin word, biblia, meaning, a collection of books. This word we use to call the scriptures has no scriptural value or changes anything about the Bible. Unfortunately, the Trinity does change some things.

Name of God?

"God" is not a name, only a title. What did the apostles baptize in the name of after Jesus told them how to do it in Matthew 28:19? That's right, Jesus.

-Questions-

It says in the Bible, "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow".... (Phil. 2:10) Now look at this, in Isaiah 45:23, Jehovah God says, "unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear". Are we going to be bowing down to two seperate persons in the Godhead? Or are they one and the same person? Jehovah also says in Isaiah 45:21 that he is our Saviour, "a just God and a Saviour"... Do we have two Saviours since Jesus is also ours?
Methuselah96

Con

Methuselah96 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
TheContendr

Pro

My opponent has forfeited this round. So, I will attempt to be kind enough to not pose more questions to him. I await his response.
Methuselah96

Con

Methuselah96 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
TheContendr

Pro

TheContendr forfeited this round.
Methuselah96

Con

Methuselah96 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TheContendr 2 years ago
TheContendr
When I posted my argument, my paragraphs converged into one big one. I'm not sure exactly what happened. Sorry about that.
Posted by TheContendr 2 years ago
TheContendr
What I am saying is that you can only use the King James Bible. The KJV was written using the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and such as you most likely know. I do not want to expound on this matter too much as it may make loop holes, but you may use the varying definitions behind the words in the King James Bible to explain your views.
Posted by philochristos 2 years ago
philochristos
When you say we can only quote from the King James Bible, are you even excluding arguments that appeal to the grammar and vocabulary of the original languages? In other words, are you saying we can't even quote from the Greek New Testament?
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