The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
Champybeat
Con (against)

Why would anyone "want" to believe in god? Count all the people god wants to murder

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/6/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 212 times Debate No: 105567
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Taken from http://godisimaginary.com... I tacked on a little bit in the middle as this article missed a little bit as I’m sure I also missed a little. Nevertheless its really quite sick, disgusting and perverted. But it is a slap to the fact to christians of truth. OK here we go...

If you look in the Bible, there are an amazing number of people that God wants his followers to murder. For example, in Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:

Exodus 35:2 “2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.”

Think about that how many people work on the Sabbath -- all the employees of Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, Linnens & things, grocery stores, convenience stores, power plants, airlines, hospitals, emergency services and on and on and on. Don't rabbis, priests and preachers work on the Sabbath? God wants all of them dead.

Then look at Deuteronomy 21:18-21. It says:

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21 “18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

That is a whole lot of teenagers that we need to kill.

Then there is Leviticus 20:13:

Leviticus 20:13 “13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

All homosexuals need to be killed. What about this:

Leviticus 20:10 “10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”

All adulterers are required to be killed.

That's a lot of people who need to be killed.

In other words, if we actually listened to what God says, we would need to kill at least half of the people in America tomorrow. After all, Isaiah 40:8 says, "8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.” The article missed Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." The word of the Lord tells us to kill half of the U.S. population.

Oh its a lot more than half. The article missed a bit…
* Exodus 21:17 “17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”
* Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
* Mark 7:10 “For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:”
*Matthew 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." Who knows how many kids, teenagers, adults that would curse at their parents would this christian god put upon them to be killed? This god is really disturbed.

So every person that curses, repeat, curses at their parents that person shall be put to death.

What about Deuteronomy 13: 9-10?
“9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
For simply wanting to leave and believe in something else that person shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17: 2-5 basically states the same thing:
“2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lordthy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.”
For simply worshiping other things, who knows if they were other “gods” demands the death penalty. So all other religions with its peoples that do not worship the god of the bible are to be stoned to death. So its more like 7/10’s or higher of the population if ruled under the christian god would have to be killed.

There are two things in this that show you that God is imaginary. First there is the utter stupidity of these verses. Second, there is this fact: If God is an all-powerful being, he would kill them himself. There would be no need for people to do the murdering. These people would already be dead, and Wal-Mart would be closed on the Sabbath through lack of employees.

Notice that believers completely ignore these parts of the Bible. That is because they know that the verses are insane. Yet Christans also believe their God to be perfect, omniscient, all-loving and all-good. By acknowledging that their God is insane, they prove that their God is imaginary by contradiction with their opposite definition of God.

Conclusion
It is absolutely impossible for anyone who thinks that they are a christian to worship their tepid god and actually be a christian in any way, who rules with absolute power and then brings in fear and then uses that fear to control. Granted that’s how most religions operate, but not with such strangulation as christianity does. After all its one wrong move, one wrong slip-up and many christians who believe in this “hell” of theirs, they believe that they will be sent there even though society knows that they have done nothing wrong. Yet a murderer actually has a free hall pass if once convicted and roll over a new leaf and suddenly believes in this holier than thou He-Man She-Ra christian god of THEIRS. Yet strangely, and oddly, they cannot even prove that this god even exists.

RULES
Prove that the christian god is NOT completely insane, and not a cold blooded murderer and or bearer of the ordering the axe to grind and the hammer to claw and fall their way when this christian god could have and should have brought in an era of peace, harmony, love, kindness, care for each other but never did etc etc etc



dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process
Champybeat

Con

Hello, friend.
I. First, I would point out, that God does not murder anyone - that is, to kill someone unjustly. Being the omniscient and therefore perfectly just Judge of humanity, he will not, and cannot treat anyone wrongly. Yet, God can and has killed people due to judgment. I will now look the examples you brought up:
II. The Sabbath:
The Sabbath day was a covenant sign that God made with Israel - for they found their rest in God when he rescued them from bondage to Egypt, and on the seventh day of creation, God rested. This is the reason they were punished by death if they worked on the Sabbath. For God clearly commanded them to keep this sign - to work on this Day was to break the sign between God and Israel, and so were given capital punishment. Concerning cashiers who Macdonald"s, no they don"t deserve death. 1.) They are not Israelites and were not under the Sinai covenant. 2.) In the Christ, we are no longer in bondage to the old covenant, on the contrary, we are under the new covenant, and Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath - for Christ proclaimed to be Lord over the Sabbath. Saint Paul clearly addresses we are no longer bound to the Sabbath Law (Col. 2:16-17). Yet, he does not disregard it; he respects it and solutes it for its place in redemptive history.
III: Rebellious Children:
This again is under the old covenant and no longer binding to Israel. Yet, when described in Deuteronomy 21 (e.g. v. 18, 19,20), it clearly shows this wasn"t someone who cursed at their parents a few times; this was someone who was a menace to society - someone who was in a "deep hole" of sin. Also, the parents couldn"t just decide to start stoning him. I"m so, there death was not an act of unreasonable vengeance or anger; rather, the elders had to decide that justice must be served. God specially revealed himself to Israel; he is infinitely holy, and so his people had to be greatly distinguished and holy like the Creator of the universe.
IV. Homosexuality and Adultery:
Again: Israel"s law before Christ. They were to be killed as homosexuality is against the Creator"s sacred ordination and covenant of marriage - that is, one man and one woman. ""Tis the same with adultery.
V. Concerning Children:
Again, this isn"t a one time thing. The elders had to judge the menace according to the law, and determined if they must be put to death. Indeed, it was the holy Creator"s sacred law to honor their father and mother.
VI: Worshipping False gods:
Yes, if they rejected the true Creator, who personally revealed himself, they would be put to death. They *knew* their God was the true God - worshipping a false god was spitting in his eye.
VII: Your Two Reasons for Claiming God does not exist:
1.) claiming it is stupid is an ad hominem fallacy - not an argument. 2.) I believe I explained the Mosaic law given to Israel quite well.
VIII: God is insane and loving - your claim of contradiction:
God"s love does not negate his justice. We seem to often forget who the infinitely holy Creator of the universe is and who we are - finite, created, God-dependent, limited human beings. God"s holiness will be upheld, and so all sin is disgusting in his eyes. Yet, though we deserve eternal damnation, he offers us undeserved mercy and grace and love by sending his divine Son to die on the cross to save humanity from their sins. And if we accept his substitutionary death and his resurrection to life three days later (proving salvation and forgiveness is given through him), we are given the free gift of God by the grace of God alone through faith alone in Christ alone. And so, we are given eternal life, and most importantly, God himself. For the ultimate reason Christ came was to bring us to God - not heaven. Through Christ alone we are given ultimate satisfaction and everlasting joy and supreme happiness in God alone - now and forever.
IX: Your conclusion:
Fear? What fear? 1 John 4:18 tells us that fear is not found in the one who has experienced true love. True Christians obey God because they find him as their supreme treasure and all-satisfying pleasure and take enjoyment in following the words of our Lord - we don"t do it because we fear hell - there"s nothing to fear when we are in the hands of the good Shepherd. Christians shall not fear hell whatsoever! For God offers eternal life unconditionally to the one who has accepted Christ as their all-satisfying Lord. They will never lose it. The good Shepherd promises to not lose one sheep in his flock.
X: Why accept Christ?
Because our purpose in life is to have a relationship with our Creator and enjoy him and bring glory to him. We can only find true happiness in God; we have a heart designed to be satisfied in the Divine - nothing else fits this God-shaped mold. As for proof of God"s existence, no one can disprove his existence either - and so we need faith based on reasonable evidence such as:
immaterial laws of logic, nature, mathematics, etc. (the universe is "bound" to these laws and has to obey them all the time [e.g. law of non-contradiction]) - these laws are immaterial and cannot arise in a naturalistic/materialistic worldview , uniformity in nature (the universe continues to work in a uniform, regular way - but why? (It just does it not a rational answer in an unplanned universe), compexity of organisms (even a single cell that"s supposedly "simple", but in reality unbelievably complex - it"s not just a sack of cytoplasm). Origin of life (abiogenesis has never been observed and so for the one who claims life can arise by non-life has the burden of proof [concerning abiogenesis] lying on them), origin of the universe (the atheist typically answers we don"t know, but we could expect something timeless, immaterial, spcaeless, and unbelievably powerful to create the universe - as he made time, space and matter - God), etc.
also, I"m surprised you keep asserting he"s basically immoral, when the atheist must accept morality is subjective, and life is meaningless (exist or don"t exist - it doesn"t matter - we"ll cease to exist eventually and remember nothing), no hope (of ultimate justice, evil coming to an end, and supreme happiness forever), and purposeless (we are just chemical reactions in a dog eat dog world - "murder" is just us dancing to our DNA, as Richard Dawkins puts it).
We deserve death - we committed high treason against the Maker of reality - the one who is existence and who is prime reality - the all-holy Creator God. God upheld his holiness in Israel, who through the Messiah would come about and to whom he personally revealed himself - and so they were expected to worship and obey their Creator. And yes, in God"s sovereign perfect eternally ordained plan, the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus, will return at his second advent, deliver perfect justice, and establish the eternal kingdom of God when he restores creation - evil and death will cease to exist and forever we can enjoy our Creator and bring glory to him for all eternity - all because of Christ - our Savior who shed his blood, our King, our Lord and God.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Ok I am going to end this debate immediately because it is absolutely clear that you are brainwashed, indoctrinated and groomed so that no matter what anybody says to you, even if they were to agree with EXACTLY---TO---THE---LETTER of what you state, say and believe, you would still manage to find fault with that person.

Your god does kill which is the exact same thing as murdering. You should look it up in the torah to find that the terms are the same. What"s worse about you and only a small, extremely small pitiful little band of christians somehow seem within your jiggly little rotted brains seem to think that its somehow justified for your god to rip the innards of mothers, to drown babies suckling on their mothers nipples, to kill innocent children for absolutely no reason at all. And you believe that its completely moral. Um no its YOU and YOUR god who in which you cannot even prove exists btw, that are completely immoral and bankrupt and has no moral compass whatsoever. Atheists are BY FAR the most peaceful people on the planet. Religious people like you create hate and war and massive genocide. Simply google "which is more peaceful atheism or god" and BANG you get about 2,460,000 results. What"s even worse about you is that you simply cannot and will not take for any reason your bible at its word. Therefore you do not believe in your god. You cannot go around and twist the words of your bible to make them suit you and only you. After all serving you god as per his laws is a true impossibility. The same thing is also true in serving your christ. It is also an impossibility as per what the bible states. So you are not a christian.

Now did you watch the video? No. Of course not. You the invalid christians cannot take ---any--- actual evidence of any kind especially when slapped in the face with it.

And you start off with "Hello, friend." ARE---YOU---KIDDING---ME??????

Your god has killed/ murdered 2,821,364 in his bible alone all in one little splatch of land. And NOBODY deserved it. Not one person. Why? Because this god of yours could have easily brought in an era of peace, love, harmony, care for each other, kindness etc etc etc. Nah. He chose hate, evil (which he mentioned THAT HE WAS EVIL several times in his bible), anger a few times, wrath a few times, rage, fury, JEALOUSY A LOT!!!!!!!!!! Jealousy from a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing but anger as disguised fear. And even worse is this god of yours neatly passed down these emotions to man so man could learn to hate. Great going god. Great going you for believing in him. But nah you don"t believe in him because you invent your excuses and lies to make your bible suit YOUR wants, needs and desires. That shows that there"s 0% chance of you being christian" more like a rabid dog searching for his bone in a puddle of gravy.

We"re NOT friends because its you that doesn"t believe as such. YOU drove a stake in the heart of believability and stabbed it into ridiculousness with a shake of sickness and a ton of swabbing immorality that nobody who is sane would ever pitch a nursery rhyme at. So because you take enormous pride in believing that your god is moral in killing innocent babies suckling on their mothers nipples, killing innocent children for 0 reason and pregnant mothers also for no reason, this debate is now over.
Champybeat

Con

Hello, friend.
I. Your assertion that I"ll disagree with someone I even agree:
This is just a baseless assertion - heaven knows why it was thrown in.
II. Your assertion that I"m brainwashed:
It appears you suggest I"m brainwashed because I disagree with you - what in the world did you expect? Of course I disagree with you - that"s why we"re "debating".
III. Killing is not the same as murder. Capital punishment is not murder. Self defense is not murder etc. It can be the same (as murder is killing someone), but if the person was not killed unjustly it is not murder.
IV. I"m astonished that almost all your arguments are not arguments - there logical fallacies (your favorite appears to be the ad hominem fallacy).
V. You"re very inconsistent: "The debate is over, but let me get the last word. . ." as you assert it"s over, yet try to defend your position. Therefore, it"s not over; I will respond. If you want it to be over don"t say anything or I will respond to keep it fair.
VI. Indeed, God determined to eliminate the Canaanites (after 400 years of them worshipping false deities and sacrificing children). And no, no one stands innocent befor God; all have sinned against the infinitely holy Creator. And I ask why is this absolutely wrong in your worldview? If morality is subjective, why not kill another animal (I.e. a human). We would all cease to exist eventually. And that"s my point - most people don"t believe in subjective morality; they claim to, but they know evil absolutely exists, and we desire for it to not exist.
VII. As for proof, you completely ignored the evidence I gave in Round One.
IX. Where did I twist the words of Scripture?
X. God treats no one wrongly. He delivers perfect justice as he is the omniscient Creator - he doesn"t need any eyewitnesses because he sees and knows all.
I"ll respond to the rest if you respond - if you want the debate to end, then stop debatating; don"t proclaim the debate is over and then continue to debate.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Didn't read it. I cannot involve myself with someone who prefers dead babies and children (which would include you) according to your bible. But nah, you haven't read the damn thing. Bye.
Champybeat

Con

Hello, friend. Welcome to round 3.
I"m curious as to how you conclude I prefer "dead babies" - compared to what? God doesn"t enjoy to kill anyone, but cannand does deliver perfect justice - being the omniscient Judge, and being the Author of human life, can give it and take it when he pleases, and will always do it justly - he never wrongs anyone. And again, you proclaim this is immoral, when ironically you believe morality is opinion; you believe any sort of killing is a chemical reaction acting on another (which eventually both will cease to exist), a worldview which believes that we are dancing to our DNA and are not even free to murder/not murder (Professor Richard Dawkins puts it).
And you seem to use a lot of slippery slope fallacies on top of you as hominems as well - and you manage to squeeze in a baseless assertion with no evidence.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by backwardseden 4 months ago
backwardseden
@ Mr_Common_Sense - Since you obviously and rather blatantly and clearly within your void cabbage batbrain do not have any common sense and did not read the text for RD1, or hey you know nothing about religion, I'm not going to answer your moronic question because I'm too good for you.
Posted by Mr_Common_Sense 4 months ago
Mr_Common_Sense
So uh, which god are we talking about?
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