Will Great tribulation happen before rapture or will Jesus come after the Great tribulation?
Debate Rounds (2)
Naturalistic causal processes will occur without any pseudometaphysical supernatural interconnection of events. The real world is far less fantastic yet more awe inspiring and existentially amazing than any religious account has or ever will describe.
Secondly, let's address your paragraph.
This was not for an atheist or someone who is just going to be a sesquipedalian. Without being knowledgeable of the Bible and believing in the Bible most atheists don't believe so they shouldn't be accepting these challenges. . Otherwise this debate is nothing. So someone tell me how to delete this challenge because I don't feel like this person will actually address the scriptures about this.
I will address you and not leave the argument empty.
You said this ,"Due to the ontological invalidity of the Bible insofar as the historical record, scientific studies about the physical universe, sociological accounts ..
I'm a christian just to put this in perspective.
You said the bible in a way is historically invalid. Please be specific.
The Christianity's scientific view points in Science varies. I know plenty of scientist who study science biology and everything and they believe in a little of evolution and etc with a blend of what they believed as a Christian. Not all Christians believe the earth is Thousands of years. I'm not saying that the Bible is wrong also because I haven't researched deep on this subject.
Also if you want to talk about scientific studies then you should also know that the tectonic plates in the earth is not always reliable to tell the timing of things. This is science learning but also declaring that everything else that isn't science doesn't use critical thinking. Yet they are proven wrong almost everyday whenever they are forming hypothesis Romans explains atheism well.
Romans 1 I taught in church and it explains this ungodly problem with men.
"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened"
Now you bashed the Christians on some historical things. What is historically untrusted be about the bible? Yet the carbon based or tectonic plate reliability of telling how old things are is not trustable in some cases but scientists use it. This is why I said it is not reliable because they are found rocks and layers of different and under the layers of earth there was a whale buried into layers sideways vertically. Do you know what this means scientifically and logically? This means that his head must have been a thousand years old or so and his tale must have been 2000 years old because it was in another layer.
This to me is something the science fails to answer but still spreads un beliefs about Christianity? Now when it comes to evidence for my belief as a Christian. I depend upon archaeological and in apologetics. Now you're trying to disprove something you can't see but I prove something I can't believe see all the time and you do too based on your life. People love the blend the Bible with mythical things such as the movie Noah. There is a differnce of Mythical stories of the bible and the difference between those things is that the Bible writes down history and you can look up archaeological things to prove that it happened. Most of the major events can be researched and found. When it comes to dispoving or proving if Myths are as reliable hardly anyone can prove it as relevant or truth . The bibles sayings of the coming of Christ is just as legit as the predictions the bible has foretold in the old days.
My proof for a living God and that this belief christianity is above all beliefs because of the evidence it passed to display instead of just saying have faith; my belief is my belief as an excuse.
Now I have found that in the Red Sea there is chariots it's at the bottom of the ocean. This is biblical evidence for the historical Pharoah and Moses crossing the Red Sea. This historical correct account is recorded in the book of EXODUS. That's evident for my belief is that historically it was astounding to find something so old the chariot wheels St the bottom of the sea floor looked like coral reef at the bottom of the same sea that Pharoah drowned in the Bible. Now you have it or may or may have look up these things but I have and I present them to you. There are many more things that prove the Bible historically correct like the kingdom Rome destruction and also Babylon beginning and end of its Kingdom and also other kingdoms who have fallen before they actually fall. Right now there's a prophecy happening just to show you that the Bible is living and active predicting what is to come to assure the believer and unbeliever. Prophecy is to sort the bible out of the same category of fake holy books .
The prophecy happening now in our day is in the book of Isaiah chapter 17. Syria Damascus has a prophecy towards the land of Syria which God says it will be destructive and now in the Middle East. It is being destructive as we speak. This is prophetical this is not just historically reliable.
Half of Con's rebuttal I just addressed for his level of understanding of this which is cool he has his belief . Im not atjeist so I dont find it fit to disbelieve rapture. This is more of a believers topic to support the legit reasons of why Jesus will return before the trib or after the tribulation.
I wanted to address the historical and scientific things Christians have to it'd crefitiblity.
Scientists say in the Grand Canyon they found layers that prove that there was a great flood which is an archeological supporting to thr biblical text of a well documented flood in the book of Genesis.
With a purpose of addressing the church I made this debate. Many think Jesus will take us out to heaven before the distress, aka the great tribulation but the bible literally says the day is unknown and it will be immediately after the tribulation of those days he will come.
What this is implying to a christian is to stay strong through persecution in which we don't suffer as much compared to the Christians in in Rome a long time ago, christians in China and in muslim countries.
This rapture before the Great Tribulation suits the West outage on how we want jesus to return rather than the Bibles sayings itself.
As far as the rapture and the Great tribulation and thr order it will occur I will say that Matthew 24 : 29 says it all no need for interpretation.
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
""the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken."[b]
Please provide a response as if you did belief or if the rapture was to actually happen based on the bible make a debate by reading the chapter of Matthew 24.
Thank you anyways regardless of your belief.
Thank you for referring to me as a sesquipedalian. This characteristic is something that has been pointed out to me many times, but I do not intend to use big words, it is just part of how I exist. I have a degree in philosophy and so there are many esoteric words which are common place with me. I also have an "impressive brain" as one woman put it, in the "very superior" range of the intelligence spectrum. I like the Sheldon reference from The Big Bang Theory "I"m not insane, my mother had me tested," I can relate to this.
It was not my intention to bash Christianity, merely to point out that it is odd to ask a question as though it is assumed that the bible is true. For me, this sparked a strong response, due to my strong awareness about the internal inconsistencies in the bible and the implausibility of the whole thing. There are many versions of the modern bible, and these do not agree. You wanted specific problems to be pointed out so"
(It is not my intention to bash with what follows) Although it is often portrayed as bashing, the various memes which say something to the effect that "Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree " and there were unicorns" is not an inaccurate description of the belief " all of this is in the bible. These kinds of memes are akin to the philosophical notion - reductio absurdum " reducing the general principles or beliefs a person holds to a logically absurd conclusion.
Is it not a little bit absurd to truly believe that Noah"s Ark really held two each of the entire population of species that exist today? Food for 40 days and 40 nights, all being tended by zoologically untrained family of was it 8 in total? Not to mention that Noah was ~900 years old? Forgive my memory.
Is it not a little bit absurd that people drink wine and bread and believe that through transubstantiation they are eating the blood and body of Christ? How is this not cannibalism if a devout believer truly believes in transubstantiation? Is this not, at the very least, odd?
Is it not absurd that religions in general are ostensibly "peaceful," and yet millions upon millions of people have been killed in the name of religion throughout history? People with psychological disorders and birth defects were considered cursed or possessed by some evil entity and then tortured, murdered, or shunned - when in fact they were just human beings born into a cruel religious paradigm of the false dichotomy of "good" and "evil." In many ways most religions have been like giant gangs, all telling a similar in-group story and rallying around it. Innocent people died in scores due to religious teachings and the actions of religious believers.
I understand that one could say that there is the belief and there is the actions of the believers, and that they are distinct. Technically this is true, however, I don"t think this holds any water. If you were raised in ignorance (particularly scientific illiteracy such that objective comprehension was not possible), believing that a person with epilepsy is in fact possessed by the devil, this might inspire you to kill them or otherwise mistreat them to protect yourself and the ones you loved from being tainted by this evil force. Even today, each year there are many families that abuse and torture their children (in the literal sense of abuse and torture) to the degree that the children die from exposure, or starvation, or other similar side effects of inhumane religious practices. Young teenage girls are honor killed even in what many westerners would consider "the civilized world." Women get stoned to death for the most minor offense. Clitoral mutilation, "female circumcision," is still practiced in many countries in the world, even in "civilized" nations.
I ask - How can we (humans) still believe in any of this?
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