The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
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The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
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Will the Tribulation of the Bible happen in your life time? If so what part will you play?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/1/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 465 times Debate No: 92189
Debate Rounds (5)
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FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

As defined by the biblical text the Tribulation is to be preceded by specific events. It is by becoming familiar with the biblical text that one can see what is called or commonly refers to as the signs of the times?

So what supposed to happen then just prior to this extremely terrifying event in history? Well the bible does say that there will be a great falling away (called the great apostasy) from God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.

So this says that will not come until there is a great rebellion against God ..... So I guess the question is ..... Does there appear to BE a great rebellion against God happening now? Does taking God out of Government,School, football and baseball games, court houses, city counsel chambers etc.... Indicate that a rebellion against God is underway?
This includes not only those who leave God, but also those who follow false doctrines as is indicated here:
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.

2Thessalonians 2:5-7
5 Don"t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.

This points out that the restrainer (Holy Spirit) is keeping the man of lawlessness at bay until the appointed time, where the Holy Spirit shall be removed from off the earth leaving evil to be unleashed unrestrained.

This also indicates that the Rebellion against God and His people will succeed, now think a minute. If there is no more need for God there is no more need for His people and THAT is why they With The Holy Spirit will be removed at that time. You see every believer that is a genuine believer HAS the Holy Spirit of God residing within them, so when He departs ( The Holy Spirit) so will all those who possess Him!

2 Timothy 3:1-5
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God" 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

Well does sound like the people of today?

So when does the tribulation actually start? Right after the restrainer is removed, the man of lawlessness will be revealed.

Tribulation: Revelation 6
2. I looked up and saw a white horse standing there. Its rider carried a bow, and a crown was placed on his head. He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.

** This is the man of lawlessness the conquer

4 Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

World War 3 ..... Hmmm I have been hearing that word on the news and tabloids a lot of late..... Have you?

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice from among the four living beings say, "A loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day"s pay. And don"t waste the olive oil and wine."

This indicates global famine extreme food shortage, course that what happens during global conflicts. No food because food cannot get to markets anymore.
Now try to focus here... Remember the carnage in Louisiana after Katrina? The rampant crime, raids on the stores, people's houses.... Yes I know you have guns, but so do they and they don't come alone do they they come in gangs! They take what they want!

8 I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.

The meaning here is clear 1/4 of earths population is dead, based on now numbers that's roughly 1.75 Billion dead.

This will also be the reason for the mark of the beast to be required because everyone will be a one world government .... Sounding familiar?

I believe your worthy saving I would think you would too!
brontoraptor

Con

"I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword."


Islam is 1/4 of the Earth, its major color is green, and its symbol is the sword.


"The Color of Islam"




Even more specifically, all four riders of the apocalypse hold the full colors of Islam. Red, white, green, and white.


"The Riders of the Apocalypse Colors"




*


John Hagee- "We are Petting the Green Horse"




We have clues as to who exactly the servants of Antichrist are.


-Behead Christians


-Are anti "Jesus is the Son of God


-Are rejected by God


-Bow to an image


-Serve someone else as God


-What does the Bible claim?
-Follow an antichrist prophet


1)A false being claiming to be God will overcome the Christians.


(Revelation 13:7)


It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them.


-"The Kingdom of Heaven" Preview Clip-




During the Crusades there were some victories and many losses. In its finality the Temple Mount of God is still today under the control of Islam.


*


The Bible declares a being claiming to be God will replace God in the exact spot of the Temple Mount. But it won't actually be God by Biblical definition.


(2 Thessalonians 2:4)


He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.


*


(Revelation 13:6)


It opened its mouth to BLASPHEME God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.


The inscription on the Islamic controlled temple-


"Such was Jesus, son of Mary, this is a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not the Majesty of Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Allah!"


"Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is


in the heavens and all that is in the Earth."


By Biblical definition this inscription is blasphemy and antichrist. It slanders God, Earth and Heaven by Biblical definition.


*


In Revelation 13:12 it tells us that (the first beast) the Antichrist gets his authority and power from (the 2nd beast), the FALSE PROPHET. This prophet is so infallable that he reigns supreme and of the highest authority. And...he is against Christ.


Muhammed is the infallable prophet of Islam. He cannot even be depicted in a picture. He cannot be questioned in Islam. And...he rejected Christ like a drumbeat throughout the pages of his Quran. Muhammed fits every description, even the title. Allah fits every description. History and reality fit every description given to us.


The Islamic Shahada is an Islamic creed declaring belief in the oneness of Allah and the acceptance of Muhammad as Allah's Prophet.




*


(Revelation 13:15)


The was given power to give breath to the graven image of the first beast, so that the graven image could SPEAK and cause all who refused to BOW DOWN TO THE IMAGE to be killed.


Per the Quran, nonmuslims are to be offered a chance to submit to Allah. If not, then the punishment is death per the Sharia. Apostasy (leaving Islam) is punished by death.


Do Muslims bow to an image? Yes.


Here is a short clip demonstrating that they do bow to an image.




Here is a link with pictures showing exactly what Muslims are bowing to. The Kaaba Stone that is imbedded in the Cube.




Does the image speak?


Muslims claim it does by saying it spiritually speaks to them and at the end of days will literally speak.


"Thus Allah wrote this confirmation. And this stone has a pair of eyes, ears and a tongue and it opened its mouth upon the order of Allah (swt), who put that confirmation in it."




*


(Revelation 13:18)


This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. It is the number of his name. That number is 666.


John, the apostle who walked with and was the closest to Jesus Christ, wrote the Book of Revelation concerning the times to come. Revelation was written in Greek, as was the entire New Testament. It tells us the number of the Antichrist is 666. So, in Greek, it was written 666. But it also tells us that this number is actually antichrist's name.


-Here is a short video clip explaining that the number 666 of Greek is readable in Arabic, the language of Islam and the Quran. In Arabic, 666 means literally,"In the name of Allah".




The Beast of the Earth is Antichrist in the Bible.




Muslims are looking for, guess who? The beast of the Earth. Guess what it does. Marks foreheads.




And as an added bonus...Muhammed got his revelation from a demon according to himself. The demon eventually claimed to be Gabriel in order to prevent him from killing himself. Of course the Bible warns us that "Satan disguises himself as an angel of light".


*


The tribulation or a tribulation-like event is happening all across the Middle East. Christians are being drowned in cages, burned alive, and beheaded for their faith.


I believe I will either have my head cut off or raptured. Why do I believe I may be raptured?


Jesus said at His return it would be like the days of Lot. Lot was taken away before the wrathful destruction began. Also Jesus spoke of one taken, one not, etc. It also speaks of those still alive being pulled into the sky and away.
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Your take on Islam is quite eye opening indeed. I do however caution such statements as scriptures do not specify this and as such it is merely a matter of interpretation. And though I am like-minded as you, I have learned to ignore the unimportant aspects of scripture. How are ones to KNOW (emphasis) what is and what is not important?

God tells you?
John 14:2 My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
Here Jesus tells us that He will tell us those things that are important. But unfortunately we lack discipline until we mature and are want to speculation which is wrong in the sight of God.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
Timothy 1:3-4 As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4 or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God"s work, which is by faith.
1 Timothy 4:7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.

As a matter of advisement, all should understand that it is forbidden to interpret the scriptures! But people still do it which explains WHY (emphasis) you have so many uhmmm religions? Or in this case Denominations? There is only one way, that"s it, doesn"t matter what people tell you or say! Jesus said:

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."
That as we say ladies and gentlemen is the bitter truth, like it or not, believe it or not, Nothing any of us think or want to believe is going to have any impact on that fact!

Oh proof that man is not to interpret scripture:
2 Peter 2:1-2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.

If prophets cannot interpret scriptures, neither can seminaries, Pastors, priests or anyone else. Because this command has been ignored is why the church has been corrupted by false doctrines and teachings and why the scripture says:
Matthew 15:9 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"

The reasons are plain according to God :
Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. 9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."
Enough for now on that subject:
By way of occurrances:
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
Luke 21:25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men"s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
Distress of nations? Men"s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth?
http://earthquaketrack.com...
Today's Earthquakes Sorted: Recent The biggest earthquakes:
There have been: (M1.5 or greater) today: 5.3 in Komandorskiye Ostrova
82 earthquakes today this week: 7.2 in South Sandwich Islands
613 earthquakes in the past 7 days this month: 7.2 in South Sandwich Islands
3,015 earthquakes in the past month This year: 8.3 in Illapel, Coquimbo, Chile
48,133 earthquakes in the past year

http://www.theguardian.com...
http://www.bbc.com...
http://www.bbc.com...
http://www.reuters.com...

http://www.end-times-prophecy.org...

http://www.infowars.com...
Millionaires Fleeing Chicago Over Fear of Civil Unrest
Elite are panicked over potential race riots, crime wave

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

Police Identify Student Who Killed UCLA Professor
http://www.nbcdfw.com...
http://www.nj.com...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com...
http://www.charismanews.com...
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com...
http://www.westernjournalism.com...
http://www.unexplainable.net...
http://wafflesatnoon.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
https://consciouslyenlightened.com...
http://www.infowars.com...
Interesting readings here.

The biggest thing is the timing. A major conflict of the significance of a world War will impact food availability. Looting as was done in Louisiana during and after Katrina demonstrates the levels of violence roaming gangs get about, in a bid to obtain foods, among other things, violence escalates as gangs become unmanageable in size, with bold house break ins. This will cause the White Horse fellow to recieve power as he restores order.

Katrina stories:
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://www.bing.com...
http://www.cbsnews.com...
http://www.bing.com...

https://video.search.yahoo.com...

reestablish monetary system in an expedient time frame will be to use digital currency- will allow quick access for citizens, to allow function all persons will require a way of accessing digitally transactions without physical monies. Answer will be the implementation of a chip embedding which allows expenditures through digital means. It will not be optional as those who do not receive it will have no way to get buy sell or work without one. (Mark of the Beast). That it will be non-optional and that you cannot buy, sell or anything without one makes everyone know what it is and will require them to willfully deny Gods warning that to take it forever dooms that soul, with no hope of salvation.

All will go well, for 3 1/2 years, then The last three and 1/ years will begin 100 lb meteor showers, massive earth quakes that level mountains, cities, widespread invasion, panic pillage, culinating with the last large scale War against Israel, the time is almost at end.

Israel shall call upon God for survival, after three days God answers and restores Israel killing all nations who went against Israel, leaving multiple millions dead in the fields.

This will be witnessed by those of the 1.75 billion that don't die in the first beginnings of War. Anyone who does not know Jesus Christ will be her to witness it themselves, or have already been killed and are in Hell awaiting the final judgement!

So it is written, so it shall be done!
brontoraptor

Con

Do I claim to know all details? No. But I do have common discernment. I don't feel that I have to be extremely interpretory or guess at all to come to my conclusion at least on some level. Why?

Speaking of Ishmael-

"But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned,(not Ishmael)."

(Genesis 21:12)

(Speaking of Ishmael)

"He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

(Genesis 16:12)

*In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet and an ancestor to Muhammad.


*

In accordance with-

"I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."

(John 15:15)

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman(Hagar) but of the free woman(Sarah)."

(Galatians 4:31)

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

(Galatians 5:1)

*

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

(Galatians 5:4)

Islam 101

"So if you are a clean hearted, clear minded, loving soul going through this life doing your best serving Allah, the God of the universe, to the best of your ability, according to what you know, you are on the path of salvation."

www.justaskislam.com/23/salvation-in-islam

So Christ is not salvation. YOU are your salvation.

Vs.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God,

not by works, so that no one can boast."

(Ephesians 2:8-9)

"As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

(Romans 3:10-12)

"So also Abraham "believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

(Galatians 3:6)

"Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham."

(Galatians 3:7)

"Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

(Galatians 3:8)

"So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith."

(Galatians 3:9)

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

(Galatians 3:10)

"Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith."

(Galatians 3:11)

"The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

(Galatians 3:12)

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

(Galatians 3:13)

"He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit."

(Galatians 3:14)

"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ."

(Galatians 3:16)

*

Islam-The Beast of the Earth

"And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs."

— Qur'an, sura 27 (An-Naml), ayat 82

What will the beast of the earth do?

He is destined for Hell” will be written on his forehead, and his face will blacken and it will brighten the face of the believer, and “He is destined for Paradise” will be written on his forehead.

*

Bible-

The Beast refers to two beasts described in the Book of Revelation. The first beast comes "out of the sea" and is given authority and power by the dragon; the 2nd beast comes "out of the earth".


*

Finally, the Islamic messiah that Islam looks for, matches the Biblical Antichrist. They are literally looking for someone described like the Antichrist to follow him. He will "break the cross", destroy the Christians and Jews, and submit the world to Allah.


*

"Muhammed and the demon"


*

In the hadith (Sahih-Al-Bukhari Bk 73; Num 224)

Mohammed said, “The most awful name in Allah’s sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be that of a man calling himself the King of kings.”
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

The point is that no interpretation is to be done, under any circumstances.
The Quran is the central religious text of Islam, which Muslims BELIEVE to be a revelation from God.
*In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet and an ancestor to Muhammad.

How many times need you be told that what you or they Think or Believe, has no effect on what is truth. So then that they believe and think a thing no more makes it truth, than putting a pink bow on a pigs ear transforms said pig into a poodle.

Abraham sacrificing Ishmael- a lie. and as proverbs so accurately states?

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Proof who was almost sacrificed:
Genesis 22:9
When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So you see not a single Muslim shall see heaven, only Hell. Sad really.

You are in severe need of study, you post scriptures as nonsense, they have no meaning as you are using them ,because you clearly do not know scripture, nor their meaning do you?

maybe you need to stop studying the cult of Islam and try reading the Bible more huh?

Faith, not law
Galatians 3:2 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain"if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham "believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Through Christ Jesus are we sanctified, justified and made righteous:

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Romans 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:3 - For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Jeremiah 23:6 - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 8:1-4 - [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Because as you have not as yet discerned? What you believe is useless and Truth can only be found in the Holy Scriptures alone. You see Jesus Christ is Lord. and by No other name can a man be saved!

John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

So Muslims are in contact with no one at all are they? Christ has received all power in Heaven and Earth!

Philippians 2:9-11
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Only those who bare the Name of Jesus Christ shall see God, no other religion who does not profess Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords and King of Kings shall be saved. This is how to determine what denomination to gravitate towards.

Move away from any denomination who has created their OWN Bible to satisfy their own polluted will and lies. They shall have their part in the Lake of Fire.

You one strange buckaroo.
brontoraptor

Con

"Because you clearly do not know scripture, nor their meaning do you?"

Rebuttle: (blank stare)

*

Pro:

"How many times need you be told that what you or they Think or Believe, has no effect on what is truth."

Sure it does. The truth was predicted. Islam fulfills that truth. The beliefs of the enemies of Christ wete defined in the Bible. It tells us to test the spirits. Islam does not pass the Biblical test. It denies Christ.

1)Muslims are the seed of Ishmael, who was not accepted by God in Genesis.

2)Islam is antichrist by Biblical definition. (Anyone who rejects Christ)

3)Are literally looking for someone as their messiah who fits the Biblical description of the Antichrist who will destroy Christians and Jews making the world entirely Islamic. He is called the Mahdi. So if the literal Biblical Antichrist shows, they would all follow him BECAUSE of their beliefs. Do you think Satan cannot inspire his own?

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires...

(John 8:44)

4)Literally bow to an image that they believe speaks.

5)Are beheading Christians in mass as Revelation says Antichrist's followers will do. (Who's beheading who in real life?)

"ISIS beheading Christians"


*

Pro:

"Abraham sacrificing Ishmael- a lie."

I agree.

*

Pro:

Deuteronomy 4:2

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

I have not added words. I have pointed out similarities between Revelation and Islam and backed that discerent with the Old Testament as to a specific group that God does nor accept according to Himself.

*

Pro:

"maybe you need to stop studying the cult of Islam and try reading the Bible more huh?"

I was raised in Islam and converted to Christianity as an adult. Thus, I am hardly able to get Quranic texts and Islamic concepts magically out of my memory.

*

Pro:

"Through Christ Jesus are we sanctified, justified and made righteous:"

I agree.

*

Pro:

"Jesus Christ is Lord. and by No other name can a man be saved!"

I agree.

*

Pro:

"Move away from any denomination who has created their OWN Bible to satisfy their own polluted will and lies. They shall have their part in the Lake of Fire."

I read the KJV and go to a Baptist church.

*

I have presented to you a debate on what the antichrist system is. You have called me strange.

*

Moving on...

*

The Deceiver-

(2 Corinthians 11:3)

But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness...

(Revelation 12:9)

"And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world..."

(Revelation 20:30)

"and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer..."

(Quran 3:54)

"Allah is the greatest of deceivers."

*

Sira, Ibn Hisham (english) p.60

When she (Muhammad’s mother) asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did.

*

(After experiencing the demon st Medina)

Bukhari (english) 1.1.3

Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.”

(Referring to Muhammed's angel at Medina)

In his Tafsir, Al-Qurtubi wrote: “A Demon in the form of an Angel”

By the demon called Al-Abyad (the White One), he was referring to the one that used to come to the Prophet (pbuh) in the form of Gabriel (the angel) wanting to seduce him.


Muhammad himself feared that a demonic figure had appeared to him

Al-Sirat al-Halabiya, by Al-Halabi, v.1, p. 377

The Messenger of Allah said to Khadija: “When in seclusion, I hear someone calling and saying, O Muhammad, O Muhammad”.. and I fear that it is one of the djinns.(demon spirit)


Muhammad admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people…as if it were from God.

Qur’an 53:19-20, 17:73-75, 22:52-53

Tafsir al-Tabari 664/18

-Allah’s Response

“Don’t worry Muhammad. All prophets proclaim Satanic messages from time to time.”


*

Mystery Babylon of Revelation-


*

Is this the Tribulation? Perhaps. That doesn't mean I will go through it, but I may go through it. Christians being slaughtered and having their churches burned down in the Middle East in scary numbers right now probably feel very tribulated.
Debate Round No. 3
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

my response "Because you clearly do not know scripture, nor their meaning do you?"

your Rebuttle: (blank stare)

my response: There is so much truth that is available to you once you complete the dying to self .... I highly and absolutely recommend going through it, it is liberating and will take all your life to complete .... but you need only START, to begin receiving the personal relationship with your Lord. It is rewarding beyond discription.

your statement: I have presented to you a debate on what the antichrist system is. You have called me strange.
my response- I apologize for that remark, I was not understanding you, but now I do. I'm sorry and ask forgiveness.

my statement: "How many times need you be told that what you or they Think or Believe, has no effect on what is truth."
your response: Sure it does. The truth was predicted. Islam fulfills that truth. The beliefs of the enemies of Christ wete defined in the Bible. It tells us to test the spirits. Islam does not pass the Biblical test. It denies Christ.

my response: The point is to NOT (emphasis) to waste precious time on what does not glorify Christ! That would be Islam, Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons .... etc... etc... or ANY (again-emphasis) on those sects, religions or cults which bring no glory to Christ Jesus.

indeed, if asked? we may provide certain insights, but unless these False doctrines are preventing a sinner from coming to Christ it is a waste of energy to discuss them. So unless your a Muslim, I find the subject of Islam, counterproductive, and actually boring, considering it has no truth in the doctrine .... you see?

Now the POINT (emphasis) is to reach the lost who have only one opportunity to escape what is looming in the near future. That is the Tribulation. all Muslims, all Jehovah's witnesses, all Mormons, all Hindu's, All Buddhists, all Harri-Krishna's will go through tribulation and are condemned to hell. Some Catholics, Baptist, Protestants,Pentecostals,Methodist,1st Church Nazarene, will also go through the Tribulation depending on one thing and on one thing alone ....... Are they really SAVED (emphasis).

This is the scripture for it:

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The why is obvious ..... because they do not walk in the way they profess.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the Law who will be declared righteous.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their actions. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.

Hosea 7:14
And they do not cry to Me from their heart When they wail on their beds; For the sake of grain and new wine they assemble themselves, They turn away from Me.

Hosea 8:3
Israel has rejected the good; The enemy will pursue him.

Mores the pity.

As to the Antichrist system? Agreed that the will be a one world religion, but again scripture does not specify so neither can we .... we can "SPECULATE (emphasis)" and what does scripture say about speculating on unimportant things?

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

Timothy 1:3-4 As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4 or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God"s work, which is by faith.

1 Timothy 4:7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.

To take this a step further in a more logical view .... for the sole purpose of an imaginable alternative which sheds or at least contradicts your antichrist theory system, consider the following:

The present state of affairs both on this Debate board as well as Government visible and obvious evidences, suggest:
1. under no circumstances will the people of this Country be FORCED (emphasis) to become Muslim!
rationale: Every Atheist on these boards would have a meltdown of epic proportion! They will not be told to be religious!
nor will the government require that!

Evidence: http://ffrf.org...
"Won"t you join FFRF in our critical work to promote nontheism and defend the constitutional separation between religion and government? With more than 23,500 members, the nonprofit FFRF works as an effective state/church watchdog and voice for freethought (atheism, agnosticism, skepticism)."

The above is on their site. No way that's gonna change, nor does scripture even imply that it will? Check it:

Revelation 13:16
16And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark"the name of the beast or the number of its name."

Revelation 13:4
People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?"

So you see, the antichrist system IS NOT ISLAM (emphasis) .... it is a One World Order, one that is anti-good, anti-God. So long as it does not glorify the TRUE God ..... it WILL BE ALLOWED (emphasis).....
Though Islam might indeed be involved, so could any religion which defies Christ as God .... see?

This is the current strategy for a One World religion .... its mind blowing!
http://www.reachingcatholics.org...

For even MORE clarity go here!
http://religionnews.com...

The point is scripture says people will accept the mark of the beast, and although it mentions worshiping the beast, it does not indicate religious connotation, it suggest obeisance to a governing body.

The point of the scripture is to spread the Gospel to the uttermost parts of the Earth teaching them

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke 24:48
You are witnesses of these things.

John 15:27
And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Acts 1:22
beginning from John's baptism until the day Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

Acts 2:1
When the day of Pentecost came, the believers were all together in one place.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 2:32
God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.

Acts 4:33
With great power, the apostles continued to give their testimony about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And abundant grace was upon them all.

Acts 8:1
And Saul was there, giving approval to Stephen's death. On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

For us who worship the King, we have till Christ returns, (removing the Holy Spirit and believers from off the Earth turning it over to Satan entirely.) to testify to the unbelieving of the World, that Jesus is Lord, that He died on a cross 2000 years ago to pay for their sin, in order that they might BE SAVED by His sacrifice. A sacrifice of unimaginable love!

That whosoever WILL may receive the GIFT of eternal life freely, becoming a forgiven sinner who at the moment of true acceptance of Christ as their Lord and savior ..... their payment of judgement is paid IN FULL .... the only judgement they shall receive after this is the one where the amount of rewards they shall receive is tabulated and given to them before The Bema Seat of Christ.

The Doctrine of Rewards: The Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ
Rev. 22:12 (Look! I am coming soon, and my reward is with me to pay each one according to what he has done!
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:

"under no circumstances will the people of this Country be FORCED (emphasis) to become Muslim!

rationale: Every Atheist on these boards would have a meltdown of epic proportion! They will not be told to be religious!

nor will the government require that!"

Why would outnumbered Atheists risk death by rejecting Allah? For what gain? You and I would reject it, but we believe in Christ.

Nor will the government require that?

Require what? Sharia Law? The law of Islam?

Sharia Law Examples-


Oh? Let's check it out.

"Sharia Zones: Battlefield London"


London, England just elected its first Islamic Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan.


Sweden now has 55 Islamic no go zones, meaning? Muslims police themselves, make their own rules, and the areas are so dangerous that police and emergency personel do not go there.


Islam is spreading like wildfire across the world at an alarming pace.


Now let me teach you something. In Islam deception of non-Muslims is practiced religiously. By means of concepts like taqiyya, kitman, maruna, tawriya, etc Muslims can and are commanded do the following:

-Kitman:

In Islamic jurisprudence kitman ("secrecy, concealment") is the practice of deception or trickery, consisting of the art of making ambiguous statements, paying lip-service to authority while reserving personal opposition, in a kind of political camouflage or reservatio mentalis. The use of such practices is to conceal one's religious affiliation for empowerment and conquest of the faith.


Taqiya:

A form of Islamic dissimulation or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny their faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts within Islam when neccessary.

*

Possible example?

Barack Hussein Obama on video speaking in Arabic, knowing the Call of the Azan, familiarity with the shahada...


*

People who knew Obama in college said his name was Barry Soetoro. So he changed his name to his current Islamic name Barack Hussein Obama as an adult. He loves Islam. He speaks of it as you would your best friend. But he mocks Jesus and is a Christian? Discernment...


*

Obama mocks Jesus Christ and the Bible...but he's a Christian...---


*

Here Obama claims to be a Jew!


*

Here he tells us that all faiths serve the same God. Hmmmmm...(with a picture of him in Muslim attire.)


*

He went to Islamic classes in Indonesia(The largest Muslim country on Earth) as a child, heard the call of Azan, and some time after

college he changed his name to an Islamic name, is shown in pictures during this time practicing Islam, yet despite loving Islam, converted...why? Most ex-Muslims hate Islam. There are actually ex-Muslim organizations to get support from other ex-Muslims. I'm yet to hear any ex-Muslim not trash Islam. That's why they left...


*

4-Star U.S. Navy Admiral James A. “Ace” Lyons was recently at the National Press Club. And his claims are shocking.

It appears that the Obama Regime has been FULLY infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood terrorism front group on every level. And that pro-radical Islam group is also in every level of U.S. security agencies. Lyons went on to say that “the transformation of America has been in full swing ever since 2008.”


Guess what his next goal is. Leader of the U.N.



*

Hillary Clinton's right hand lady is? Huma Abedin, Muslim, and related to members of the Muslim Brotherhood, and indicted by the FBI.

Who is Huma Abedin?


Huma FBI Indictment-


*

Someone will force America into submission. According to Revelation all people on Earth that will not receive the mark and bow to the image, will be killed. America is in no way immune from the Antichrist.

(Revelation 13:15)

"...cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."

*

I don't have to interpret anything to say Islam is antichrist.

(1John 2:22)

"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist, denying the Father and the Son."

"It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah that He should beget a son."

(Quran 19:35)

Why do I closely discern prophecy vs reality? Romans 15:4.
Debate Round No. 4
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I simply state that it will not be as you believe.
What is my proof? The Billions of Atheist listening right now. The scriptures at no time imply that the entire World will become religious! On the Contrary ..... worship requires nothing more than compliance. For example.

1. Worship of Freedom ie.. abortion-approved and agreed upon by all atheist .... Government sanctioned murder. There is no riots in the streets, Citizens are COMPLIANT (emphasis).

2. Worship of pleasures of the Flesh ie.. Sex, Drink, Comforts
3. Worship of Money, Fame, possessions
4. Worship of Power

Point is that the world has never and will never be totally religious nor does the scriptures imply that it will. It Will be acceptable to be any religion that supports a False God. That could be Islam .... true, but there exists many not under government bulls-eyes. But only those that worship the true God.

Many of the World will remain as they are today-unbelieving, unrepentant sinners- doomed to destruction, but COMPLIANT (emphasis) to government requirements.

Though your thoughts may appear sound by your reasoning, you fail to view them from a real standpoint. This is a common occurrence. It is natural to believe a thing that at the time, does not exist. This is the proverbial arm chair quarter back you've heard talk of. An example of this is the multitude of people who have opinions on actions done in combat zones, who themselves were never in a combat zone in their life.

Look at the response to the Killing of Harambe (Gorrilla) in Cincinnati? People went nuts ... right? Of those who hug the Gorilla, how quickly would that sympathy vanish had it been THEIR CHILD? answer: 100% reversal, kill it, kill it now, kill it quick fast and in a hurry! See brother, people are not aware of their true feelings, they are a knee jerk society!

Every Atheist and agnostic and every other ist, can flatly and quickly confirm that there is NO WAY (emphasis) the Government is gonna make them bow down to a Religion ..... end of story! But to be compliant with the requirements to take the mark of the beast, to sell, buy, trade, eat, get paid ..... ahhh that, will be acceptable. That's precisely how it is going to play out in the last Days.

let me lay it out for you.
Something is coming down soon, that will throw us into a world wide crisis (what? don't know, Don't care) won't be here so not relevant to us.

This occurrence will be sufficient to mask the disappearance of the believers, allowing Government to believe we are dead, not vanished! *Note* Those who have been preached to and were in fact listening, will not accept government explanations because of following reason (s)
1. They knew the person missing and know from discussions they were ALL (emphasis) devote Christian followers.
2. They will have been preached to and know of the rapture event and will research deeper and finding out that all believers are in fact Gone .... they will do this by confirming that their known Christian family members are also gone.
3. millions will be instantly converted, after the shock and realization sinks in, that the God of the Bible was real all along.
4. They will REFUSE to take the mark of the beast and will Die : these are those spoken of in Revelation:

Next will come Famine, because of the catastrophic impact upon earth. As initial rioting, looting , pillaging, rapes and associated violence which comes naturally from such things; Remember Katrina, looting murder, rapes, city wide robberies etc...

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.bing.com...

http://www.bing.com...

This is when the antichrist will receive power, he will solve problems, fix, financial collapse , restore a form of digital currency that required because it is the only feasible way of rapid access to need resources to purchase from Government setup food stations (heavily protected of course). All you have to do is have a RFID chip or similar device to access the resources for food, shelter, transportation, without one you can get nothing! See how easily people will accept it under those conditions, they won't even put up much fight.

For those who prefer a less painful way, I'm sure they will oblige them too. Painless access to funds, available by scan right now, instant relief ..... unless of course you DON'T (emphasis) have one ..... then?

The Man will make a peace treaty but break it in 3 1/2 years. Construction will prosper in that time as rebuilding requires multiple workers. All will be going beautifully for those who have accepted the mark. All those who are not will be hiding as they are being forced into compliance, or be imprisoned.

Immediately following the antichrist rise, the two witnesses will appear and preach the Gospel. The shall be indestructible for 3 1/2 years. At this same time shall rise 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, (NO not Jehovah's Witnesses-they ARE a cult !), these will also spread the Gospel, They shall survive to the end of Days and enter into the Millennial Reign of Christ! But not the two witness, they shall be killed after 3 1/2 years and lie in the streets .... for 3 days, not being given evn a proper burial, all the world shall look upon their bodies for 3 Days! See Revelations here:

REVELATION 11:3 "And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. (NKJV)

REVELATION 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. (NKJV)

REVELATION 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad, 6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh, 7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar, 8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed. (ESV)

REVELATION 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the Abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (NASU)

REVELATION 11:9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. (NKJV)

Cable and satellite TV! Right there in a book written 2000 years ago!

REVELATION 11:11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. (NKJV)

"Three-and-a-half days after the Beast is allowed to slay the witnesses of the House of Judah and the House of Israel (a day for every year they prophesied in the cities of the world), Yeshua the Messiah is going to raise them from the dead in the sight of all their enemies. This event will cause the Antichrist to lose a 10th of his kingdom and bring to a close the 6th trumpet (also called "the 2nd woe"-Rev. 11:14), setting the stage for the end of the age at the 7th trumpet (Rev. 11:15-18)."

From there everything goes down in rapid succession. Christ will Show Himself to EVERYONE at the mount of Olives which splits in half at Christ coming!

Zechariah 14:4 says, "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

http://www.abbaswatchman.com...
The geological institute in Tel Aviv discovered a major fault line running right through the Mount of Olives. It takes a line from the Mount Olives over to the Kidron valley all the way into the valley of Hinnom . The fault line follows the Kidron Brook which empties into the Dead Sea .
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"What is my proof? The Billions of Atheist listening right now. The scriptures at no time imply that the entire World will become religious!"


One religion-
(Revelation 13:8)
"All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."


Think about it. If a figure showed up rejecting Christ but saying the right things and giving good explanation for why "we are gone" and "fixing things", the atheists would gobble it up and say,"Sure, this guy is like us. He's great." Keep in mind that to worship something or someone does not require a theistic heart. Only admiration, praise, or over zealous support.


Con:
"An example of this is the multitude of people who have opinions on actions done in combat zones, who themselves were never in a combat zone in their life."


I was born in a combat zone.


Con:
"Something is coming down soon, that will throw us into a world wide crisis (what? don't know, Don't care) won't be here so not relevant to us."


I agree.


Con:
"All you have to do is have a RFID chip or similar device to access the resources for food, shelter, transportation, without one you can get nothing! See how easily people will accept it under those conditions, they won't even put up much fight."


I have a different perspective on this one.


I quote your verse on this one because I do not believe the mark of the beast is like what you say. I see it as something like a tattoo or nonvisible oath, such as saying,"I serve...." -the antichrist's creed, name, or something likewise, anything that is an obvious rejection of Christ. So if the Antichrist had a certain symbol as his symbol that is an obvipous rejection of Christ, that would be the mark, in theory, or if he were Muslim, the Shahada or the Islamic sword might be the mark. Why? They are a specific rejection of Christ by definition.


Con:
"until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."


Why would God condemn someone for simply accepting the ability to eat or sell? What sin would that be? The sin of trying to survive and get by? Unless the mark means you have rejected Christ. Marks in the rest of the Bible are not physical seeable things.


*Cain had a "mark" in Genesis.


The Hebrew word for "mark" means a sign, omen, warning, or remembrance, or ownership.




*(Revelation 9:4)
"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads."


So they had some other anti-God seal.


At the passover the door was marked and the angel would pass by. (Exodus 12:7)


"..to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name."


To me this means the mark is a decleration against Christ. The only thing I know of on Earth that is an obvious 100% rejection of Christ is Islam or "Allah". Why? By definition becoming Muslim is antichrist per the Quran and the Bible.


The Dome of the Rock sits exactly in the spot where the temple of Solomon, the temple of God was when Revelation was written. This is where Antichrist claims to be God by power of the false prophet in Revelation. The term "temple" is not physical according to Christ. When he referred to the "temple" being destroyed and raised up in the gospel he meant himself. So "temple" is a subjective term. In terms of location, the Islamic physical temple sits where the temple of Revelation says Antichrist claims to be God. There is an entity present today in that exact spot claiming to be God by the power of a prophet who's followers all reject Christ per the Quran. Would you like to see the inscription on this temple? Here it is in this link:




Emphasis on:
"Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son."


That is inscribed on the very spot where the Antichrist will reside claiming to be God per Revelation. Islam came well after Revelation was written. So why is it suddenly being revealed to Christianity after 1,300 years? No one in the West was educated on Islam until the Internet and 9/11 brought attention to it. "The prophechy was sealed until the end."


-


I bend away from the oldschool version of Apocalypse theology. Why? They weren't going through a time like these. The prophecy was sealed. They were guessing. The church who is going through it will not have to guess. In other words, we have more information available to us. Example? Mystery Babylon. I have heard that Mystery Babylon is the U.S. etc. Did you know Mystery Babylon is not just mentioned in Revelation? It is interpreted for you in the Bible. We know Antichrist's followers hate the harlot and we know its location, not just from Revelation, but from Isaiah and Jeremiah. It tells you it is by...the Red Sea...It also tells you the prophecies of Babylon in Isaiah and Jeremiah are "about the "end of days."
"Mystery Babylon"


-


Will I go through a worldwide "tribulation"? I don't think so. "It will be like the days of Lot". In that story, the "righteous" who lived by faith were swept away" by angels.


Thanks for the debate. It was food for fodder, but reality may offer us something unseeable today. Just stick with Christ, and you will be okay. May Christ be with you. God bless.
Debate Round No. 5
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by brontoraptor 8 months ago
brontoraptor
Pro mentioned the Mount of Olives:

The Mount of Olives or Mount Olivet (Hebrew: Har ha-Zeitim; Arabic: Jabal al-Zaytun, Al-Tur) is a mountain ridge east of and adjacent to Jerusalem's Old City.[1] It is named for the olive groves that once covered its slopes. The southern part of the Mount was the Silwan necropolis, attributed to the ancient Judean kingdom.[2] The Mount has been used as a Jewish cemetery for over 3,000 years and holds approximately 150,000 graves, making it central in the tradition of Jewish cemeteries.[3] Several key events in the life of Jesus, as related in the Gospels, took place on the Mount of Olives, and in the Acts of the Apostles it is described as the place from which Jesus ascended to heaven. Because of its association with both Jesus and Mary, the Mount has been a site of Christian worship since ancient times and is today a major site of pilgrimage for Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants.

Much of the top of the hill is occupied by At-Tur, a former village and now a neighbourhood of East Jerusalem with a majority-Muslim population.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Posted by brontoraptor 8 months ago
brontoraptor
@Captain scarlet

Not true. He said "there will be those who are standing HERE who..."

He wasn't saying the people who were present with him. He was saying there will be people standing in this very spot who will see these things. If not he wouldn't have not given end of days scenarios that were nothing like his day but like our day.
Posted by brontoraptor 8 months ago
brontoraptor
Here's a little more for Pro:

(Isaiah 17:1)
A prophecy against Damascus: "See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins.

Right now, in real life...Damascus...video...

http://youtu.be...
Posted by CaptainScarlet 8 months ago
CaptainScarlet
Christianity has never really had a strong track record in getting things right since its first failed prophecy. That of the alleged Jesus figure claiming he will return within the lifetime of his apostles. Of course excuses have been made for that eschatological blunder by theistic scholars. But it really isn't that surprsing given Revelation et al are a series of made up events covering a very wide spectrum of characters, magical occurrences and happenings, which any demagogue can read anything into. The events get retrofitted onto earthquakes, wars, even people in the middle east etc. Its like seeing Jesus in a pop tart. People see what they want to see because it makes them feel special, and reinforces their fraudulent beliefs.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Ragnar;
Thank you, I shall endeavor to improve debate structure but as with al things, new I may fumble a bit.
As to my goals? Only God can save a souls, it is not my words but Gods word that is inerrant. Every time I get in the way the discussion goes down hill. See I'm working on balance, self control, stumbling not but it's coming along. Unfortunately for me, We learn more from our failures than our successes.
Again thank you. The below statement was for Wylted, just forgot to put his name, so disregard it please.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Excuse me I am the gospel expert here not you. I serve the risen savior not you. I live life daily seeking to deny self not you. I am a disciple of Christ not you, I know the gospels not you, I know Paul, Peter , John, Matthew, Luke, and Timothy you don't.

Stephen was stoned for the gospel, Peter arrested for the gospel he preached, John the Baptist was thrown in prison for calling Herod an adulterer, his wife a harlot, and was beheaded, John was exiled to Patmos for the word of God. Paul was arrested and had to be let down over the kingdoms wall by ropes because the towns folk were looking to kill him, later he was thrown from the castle walls and his head crushed by clubs, Peter was crucified upside down, James was ran through by sword.

Does this even sound like the Gospel being preached today, the make everyone feel good , Sunday school Jesus? No of course not! I preach Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords, creator of all, your savior today or your Judge tomorrow.

Ezekiel 3: 18 tells all believers we are to warn all we come in contact with of their need for repentance and Jesus and that they are going to die in their sin and suffer eternity in hell. Read the part where it says AND IF you do not warn them they Will die in their sin and I shall account their blood to You (me).

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.
This is the gospel your following, because it saves no one. It allows souls to Go to hell with indifference which is turned to horror the second the close their eyes on the last day of life.

This is the watered down gospel being preached today, the Jesus who runs around hugging people, patting them on the head and turn the other cheek. That isn't the Jesus the apostles preached.

So tell you what you stick to what you know which is not the word of God. But you still have time?
Posted by Wylted 8 months ago
Wylted
Follower of christ, you can't save souls if you act mentally retarded. Instead you should act smart and format this debate so people can actually debate you, which would also make it easier for you to change their minds.

Paul saved souls by being smart, maybe you should use the tactic of not being an intellectual midget, like Paul did.
Posted by Ragnar 8 months ago
Ragnar
The clear formulation and setup of arguments, would help you in your goal.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Ragnar;
Just so you know, saving souls is all that is important to me. Not winning debates. I am also not participating in any other section as they are in the long term unimportant for various reasons. Depending on the topic of course.

But I will read the link it is valuable for debate purposes. Again, thank you!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Ragnar;
Thank You I'll read it I appreciate this.
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