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Wilt Chambelain was the greatest NBA basketball player
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
PolicyKing501
| Started: | 5/18/2012 | Category: | Sports |
| Updated: | 1 year ago | Status: | Post Voting Period |
| Viewed: | 2,307 times | Debate No: | 23607 |
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (2)
 Pro  Con I want to thank my opponent for proposing this resolution. Resolved: Wilt Chamberlain(who I think he meant) was the greatest NBA basketball player. By this meaning I am inferring that he means "greatest basketball player ever" and not of his time period since he did not specify that this was limited to only his era of basketball. Contention 1: No 3 seconds in the paint rule The reason this is a critical issue in the debate over whether Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest basketball player of all time is that he was over 7 feet tall with an 8 foot wingspan. The 3 second in the paint rule established after Wilt Chamberlain's prime/days of excellence. Coupled with the fact that he was over 7 feet tall with a wingspan of almost 8 feet, he could remain under the basket for the entire possession of his team and just take away every rebound and dunk/lay-in every shot. Compared to someone such as Jordan, Patrick Ewing, or Shaquille O' Neal who had this restriction, it severely limits those players as compared to Chamberlain. Contention 2: Minutes played Another issue that shows Wilt Chamberlain wasn't the greatest to play in the NBA is the amount of minutes he played. The average NBA game in Shaquille, Ewing, Jordan's time, were 48 minutes pre game(excluding overtime). During the time Wilt Chamberlain played, he accumulated a miraculous 48.5 minutes per game, and in one season he played 3,882 minutes out of 3890 minutes he could've been on the court. This means Wilt was on the court for all but 8 minutes during a season in his playing time. This is also an indicator of why Wilt has almost 7,000 more minutes played than Michael Jordan. If you look at the seasons played you'll see that Wilt only played 14-5 seasons and Jordan played 19-20 seasons. Include the fact that Wilt only played half of some seasons and you'll see that this is absurd. Contention 3: Scores of some games During the amount of time Wilt Chamberlain played, the game he scored 100 points, had a final score of 169-147. The only games that occur now, that have scores of this nature are NBA All-star games, where the players don't play competitively until the 4th quarter arises and the game is close in the end. This shows that defense was at a limited level in his time period, or also can serve as an add-on to the minutes played contention. Pro statement: In pro's statement he reitterates the fact that Wilt Chamberlain scored the most 60 point games out of any NBA player. The issue with this argument is that even though he had the most 60 point games, Wilt did not finish with the highest per game average in history, Michael Jordan did. Michael Jordan also did this with more games played than Wilt. This made it harder for Jordan to average the highest, since his total points were divided by more games. |
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Pro I disagree with Contention 1 because: The 3 second rule was first instituted in 1936 in college basketball, and was always a rule for the NBA/BAA/NBL since their inception, so Wilt Chamberlain played with that rule. Source 1: http://answers.yahoo.com... I disagree with Contention 2 because: While Wilt Chamberlain played more minutes than any NBA player from 1984-beyond, while you see it as an unfair advantage, I see it as a form of ultimate durability and stamina. Think about it. No player would last with the amount of minutes Chamberlain was playing with. Therefore, your argument only makes mine stronger. And Jordan only played 15 seasons, and missed substantial time from injuries/two retirements for 3 of those. Source 1: http://www.nba.com... Source 2: http://www.nba.com... I disagree with Contention 3 Because: Your minutes played contention in argument 3 is ludicrous because all games were played with 48 minutes. While a lot of games did have high scores, there were also a lot of high octane offenses during Wilt's time, and there were also tighter defensive rules during that time as well. I disagree with Con's Commentary on my statement because: MJ had a lot less minutes on his legs when he played, as I stated before, so it was easier for him to score points on his legs as opposed to Wilt. MJ also had a lot of time for his stamina to boost back up from all of the retirement time he had, while Wilt never retired in between seasons. Therefore, it was easier for MJ to score points in his Wizard years so that his PPG would stay up, as opposed to Wilt's Laker years, where Wilt had to undergo knee surgery, so his dominance was limited. Their PPG averages are only separated by a few tenths of a point. Also, Wilt was the greatest rebounder of all time, and even Bill Russell's peers said that Chamberlain was better than Russell in shot blocking. Wilt also had a knack for stealing a ton of balls out of midair, so he would have averaged a lot of steals as well, if Blocks and Steals were recorded. Source 1: http://www.nba.com... Source 2: http://www.nba.com... Con In my earlier speaking I brought up the following contentions. C1: No 3 second in paint rule, C2: Minutes Played, C3: Scores of some games. I will drop/concede contention 1 of my first speech, as I have the right to do so as negative. However, even though this shows I have lost an argument, it doesn't mean the debate is over, which it is not. I will be replacing Contention 1 with Difficulty.
Let it be known that Michael Jordan, NOT Wilt Chamberlain is the best basketball player of all time. Contention 1: Difficulty Starting off with difficulty. During Wilt Chamberlain's time, it was a lot easier to score points due to how the game was played and set up back then. Seeing how it was more difficult for Jordan to score points that meant Jordan had to be a better player to accomplish the numbers Wilt did, and he did. Jordan scored more points and holds the 3rd All-Time record, Wilt is 4th, for points scored. a) Free Throws -An example of why Wilt Chamberlains point totals were so high was the free throw line rule. Chamberlain was so tall that he could leap from behind the free throw line and just lay the ball in with his wingspan. Since then, the league incorporated a rule that prohibits the practice of that. b) Offensive Goaltending - Probably the most crucial part of this argument. Wilt Chamberlain did not have the restriction of offensive goaltending. Because of this, Wilt would take his teams points by tipping the ball in on the way down, or tip dunking it. Jordan certainly had the athleticism to jump and tap the ball of his teammates on the way down, but he couldn't because there was a rule against it. Think of it like this If someone on a team shoots a jump shot that is going in, all Wilt had to do was get a finger on it as it went down into the basket and he bucket would be his. With this he was able to gain many more points than Jordan would be able to in a game. c) Wilt's team played for him - There is evidence that Chamberlain's team practiced missing free throws, because they knew that his height and athleticism would allow him to grab a rebound over almost anyone in the league. During Jordan's time period, people rarely missed free throws on purpose, and the only reason they did was extenuating circumstances. With Wilt's team intentionally giving away their points so he could score more, it made the game basically a cake walk for him. http://www.nba.com... Contention 2: Minutes Played Thank you for correcting me on Jordan only playing 15 seasons, I have left out the retirement seasons. However in minutes played, you can argue that Wilt was more durable and had more stamina than Jordan, but this is not the case. A) Durability - Wilt had injuries that inhibited him over his seasons and he ended up with a total 3 seasons, where he missed 30 games or more, to Jordan's 2 seasons of 30 games or more. Showing Jordan was more durable. B) Stamina - It is nearly impossible to argue stamina, because there is no way to tell if Jordan wanted to come out of the game, or if his coach took him out of the game. Basketball-reference.com a reliable stat and bio for elite NBA players shows what each player did with the same amount of time played. Per 36 minutes played in any game, Wilt averaged 23.2 points, but Jordan averaged 28.3 points. So over the same amount of time played, Jordan scored more points. C) Retirement - While Jordan did retire and come back years later, this argument towards "rest made it easy for Jordan" can not be valid. With Jordan retiring he missed crucial years in the NBA experience. There is no other place Jordan could go and compete with Professional athletes of the same caliber day after day, as if he was in the NBA. This had negative effects, as Jordan "lost a step" so to say. The NBA is the fastest paced version of basketball played, being out of the game for years like that, would leave him behind and ultimately to his demise, as he came back and had his 2 worst scoring seasons of his entire career. http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... Contention 3: Score of some games My opponent sees this argument as ludicrous because all games have been played at the same amount of time. The point where this argument thrives is the defensive element. A) Defense - Being that the scores of those games were so high, defense was at a minimum during his time period. With defense at a minimum no one could stop Wilt. However, as of Jordan's time defense became greater and greater every year, as it does now. With this increasing defense becomes the lesser possibility to score and the greater possibility to miss shots. Pro statement #2: I have 2 issues with the opening sentence alone. 1st, is Michael Jordan played more minutes than Wilt in total in his career. 2nd, is the less minutes spent on the legs in the league does not transfer to better play. If this were the case Luke Walton would be the best player in the NBA, because he does nothing but sit on the bench every game, and when he does get a chance he does very little. I've already answered the retirement issues in the contentions above. As for the Injury aspect of knee surgery, just because he underwent knee surgery doesn't mean his dominance was limited. Knee injuries are common with Power Forwards and Center's, and with that being said Blake Griffin broke his knee cap in 2009 and had to have it surgically repaired, then came back the next season to win Rookie of the Year and has the most dunks this season out of any player. For this there is no proof that the knee injury slowed Chamberlain down. I now turn it over to Pro for his next speech. |
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Pro Contention 1: There is no proof or rule change that made it harder to score points in Jordan's era. In fact, there was no 3 point line during Chamberlain's day, so if anything, it would be easier to score more points. Chamberlain raised the point amount due to his skill. 1a. They made a rule right before Chamberlain went into the NBA that prevented Wilt from doing this because of him. It prevented any player from moving past the foul line during the shot. In fact, the rule is called... Of course... The Wilt Chamberlain rule! I don't even have to cite the source for this one. Just google it. In fact, his free throws were around 50%, even more amazing how dominant he was. 1b. Offensive goaltending became a rule for the NBA in 1958, before Chamberlain played an NBA game. Some games where Chamberlain tipped was the result of bad refereeing. 1c. That is impossible. You know why? 8.6 APG in 67-68. And them missing free throws is what I see as a smart way to play, a strategic way that shows the rebounding skill of Wilt Chamberlain. Source 1: http://www.nba.com... 2a. Wilt Only had one season where he missed 30 or more games, and that was in 1969-1970, and he played 18 more playoff games in 69-70. Wilt, besides 69-70, never missed more than 10 games in a season. 2b. One question. What coach would take a player out of a game if he weren't A. Tired B. In foul trouble So Jordan was in one of those groups. In fact, considering Wilt was a CENTER, Wilt never fouled out of a game. 2c. Any NBA player has a lot of wear and tear on the legs. If you had an extended period of time off, like Jordan did, your legs are closer to brand new than a player probably about age 28. So, that fairly justified the time away from the fast paced sport. Source 1: http://www.nba.com... 3a. There is a possibility that teams played somewhat less defense in Chamberlain's days, but not so substantial that it makes Jordan better. Griffin had his surgery in his early 20's. Wilt had his in his early 30's. Very different for an athlete at Wilt's age. Jordan played 1,072, while Chamberlain played 1,045. Only 27 more games. And Wilt's durability let him play more minutes. And there was no complete package like Chamberlain. Led the league in scoring the same amount of times as Jordan, is the all time rebounding leader, led the league in assists at one point, would have averaged close, if not 10 blocks, and would have averaged at least 2 steals. He was athletic, a track and field star. He was the greatest offensive player ever, was one of the best defenders, and was the league's greatest rebounders. One word. Perfection. No player will ever reach Chamberlain's level. Source 1: http://www.nba.com... Source 2: http://www.nba.com... Con I will now refute the arguments posted by my opponent. This constitutes with no doubt that Michael Jordan was the best player to ever play in the NBA Contention 1: Difficulty a)The addition of the 3 point line didn't make it easier for either party to score. The 3 point shot is the lowest percentage shot the offense can make. Wilt made most of his shots from mid-range and close to the basket. This means that Jordan had a greater ability as he was able to make longer ranged shots. Secondly, shooting free-throws at a 50% level is a terrible NBA percentage. This means that Wilt only made 1 out of every 2 shots, meaning within a 1000 shots he would miss 500. Compare this to the free throw shooting ability of Jordan 84%. This shows Jordan would have made 384 more shots than Wilt did with the same amount constituted. b) Whether or not the result of the tip ins were bad officiating or not, it still gave Chamberlain an advantage over Jordan. If you watch every single game played by Jordan you'll never se him commit an offensive goaltending penalty that wasn't called. Compared to Wilt who had a large amount of offensive goaltending tip ins. c)The fact that Wilt had an average of 8.5 assists is irrelevant, as his team still played for him. Missing free throws on purpose, so Wilt could score more was not an ability that Jordan was able to experience, which gave Wilt Chamberlain an unfair advantage over Jordan. This demonstrates that the game was easier for Wilt to play, than for Jordan, and for them to have the same scoring average per game shows that Jordan was greater, because without this assistance he accomplished the same thing 30.1 ppg Contention 2: Minutes Played A) This doesn't adequately show that Wilt was more durable than Jordan by any means because B) To start off, Wilt being a center and never fouling out is irrelevant. And I understand that Jordan got tired, and or was in foul trouble. But in 36 minutes played for both players Jordan scored around 5 points more in that time spent on the court. Showing that he was a better offensive player than Wilt. C) This argument is also irrelevant, as the length of time away did more harm than good, as Jordan lost a step on the competition, and as I stated before had his 2 worst seasons after retiring. Showing that the rest was not rest, but him losing an edge. Contention 3: Scores of some games A) When you watch an All-star game now, not much defense is played, as players play this game strictly for fun until the later minutes, and this leads to the highest amount of points scored in the whole season. When you look at any All-Star game the score has never reached the total amount of some of the games in Wilt's time. This shows that defense was substantially low compared to Jordan's playing time, as he squared off against some of the greatest defenders in NBA history. The age of the player having surgery, doesn't have as much effect on the player, as the player's ability to bounce back from the injury. Take for instance Greg Oden and how young he is. There is no correlation between age and the playing ability after knee surgery. Kobe had surgery on his legs, but is still performing at a very high level in his 30's, no correlation. You say there was no complete package like Wilt, but 1. Jordan finished with more assists than Wilt, 2. Wilt does have more rebounds but he was 8 inches taller than Jordan, so that is expected, 3. Jordan like you said led the league in scoring the same amount of times as him making this null in the debate, 4. As far as accomplishments go, Michael outdoes Wilt here too. Michael Jordan: Wilt Chamberlain: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1978); NBA champion (1967, '72); NBA Finals MVP (1972); NBA MVP (1960, '66, '67, '68); All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68); Second Team ('63, '65, '72); All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73); Rookie of Year (1960); One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996). Looking at these accomplishments alone, Jordan made the All NBA first team 3 more times than Wilt, made the NBA Defensive team 7 more times than Wilt Chamberlain, led his team to win 4 more titles than Wilt, led the USA to 2 gold medals, and won 5 NBA MVP's to Wilt's 4. Jordan is obviously shown here as the greater "package" than Wilt Chamberlain was through his accomplishments. With that being said I now turn the debate back to pro. |
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Pro And I'll also address your assessments on their acomplishments. First of all, the all defensive teams were established in the 1968-1969 season, so in most of Chamberlain's years, there was no defensive teams. Second of all, Championships. Jordan played cakewalk west teams compared to what team Wilt had to face, somewhere close to alone in your comparison. He had to face the '60s Celtics. They were loaded with more prime hall of Famers at once than Chamberlain ever had. Also, the celtics were a lot of the time, lucky. Example. In game seven of the '65 playoffs, the ball hit the wire in the Boston garden, forcing Philly to inbound it. The result? "Havlicek stole the ball! It's all over! IT'S ALL OVER!". Chamberlain is the ONLY NBA player to win MVP and Rookie of the Year in the same year. Also, during Chamberlain's days, only amateurs could make the USA basketball team. Also, Jordan had the advantage of the Dream Team. MVPs are selected mostly on team performance. If the best player in the NBA is on the league's worst team, they won't win the MVP. Your turn con. Con Thank you for your arguments, Pro. They are pretty decent arguments I believe, but I clearly have won them, and that is why you lose this debate. Contention 1: Difficulty The difficulty of the game doesn't come from the things Wilt brought to the game, it came from the outside sources around him that allowed him to play in such a great fashion that he did. As stated in the earlier arguments of this round about his team playing for him, missed tip in calls, etc... these show how the game was much easier for Wilt to play at a higher level as compared to Jordan, who had a harder time, but was still able to play at a level GREATER than Chamberlain. Take this analogy for example, if the basketball rim diameter in Wilt's days were 3 feet and the the rims in Jordan's days were 1 foot in diameter, the game would be harder. Therefore, Jordan would have to be better to do the same at a more difficult level. Contention 2: Minutes played I understand I that you said you won't refer to each contention specifically, but by this you are dropping this contention, meaning it shall be considered a winning argument for con. But, now onto why this is a winning issue for Con. As shown in minutes played Jordan and Wilt both had their stats calculated over the time period of 36 minutes in game, which in fact showed Jordan produced better scoring than Wilt did while in for the same time on the court. Wilt's minutes played per game were 45.8 and Jordan finished with 38.3 MPG. This shows that Wilt's absurd tallies for games compared to Jordan's were because he did it in more minutes played. One could only reminisce over what Jordan could have done in some of his 70+ point games had he played 7 more minutes. Contention 3: Scores of Some Games I understand that you also didn't attack this contention, which is a responsibility of you, so you lose this contention as well. However, Con still wins this issue in another way. In Wilt Chamberlain's playing days defense was at a minimum. Meaning he could score and do basically whatever he wanted at any time. This gave Wilt another unfair advantage against Jordan who had to play in a defensive era. I mean just look at some of the Knicks Pacers games, absolutely crazy. Since Jordan played Greater than Wilt against better defenses, he must be looked to undoubtedly as better than him. On the final statement about Awards and accomplishments: I'll give you the fact that the Defensive teams were established a little late in Wilt's career. However I will not let the fact that you challenge the teams Jordan faced in the championship, and refer to them as weak. Jordan played against tough teams in the West and in the East, when he was trying to make it to the title game. Just look at some of the stats and players for the teams Jordan faced in the title series: 1990-91 Championship vs the Los Angeles Lakers: 2 All-Time Greats: Magic Johnson and James Worthy Stat Line: 2nd in opponent's points allowed per game with 99.6, 5th overall in offensive rating, and 5th overall in defensive rating 1991-92 Championship vs The Portland Trail Blazers: 1 All-Time Great and 1 Key Player: Clyde Drexler and Terry Porter Stat Line: 4th in Points Per Game with 111.4, 7th in Offensive Rating, 3rd in Defensive Rating 1992-93 Championship vs The Phoenix Suns: 1 All-Time Great and 1 Key Player: Charles Barkley and Dan Majerle Stat Line: 1st in Points Per Game scored, 1st in Offensive Rating, 9th in Defensive Rating 1995-96 Championship vs The Seattle Supersonics: 2 All Time Greats: Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp Stat Line: 2nd in Points Per Game scored, 2nd in Defensive Rating, and 8th in Offensive Rating 1996-97 and 1997-98 Championships against the Utah Jazz 2 All-Time Greats: John Stockton and Karl Malone Stat Line: 96-97(2nd in Points per game, 2nd in Offensive Rating, and 9th in Defensive Rating), 97-98(3rd in Points Per Game Scored, 1st in Offensive Rating) http://www.nba.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... http://www.basketball-reference.com... As you can see from the players mentioned above, Jordan didn't play "cakewalk" teams. He played against some of the all time greats in the league during the title games. This doesn't include the difficult teams he had to play just to reach the tile games out of the East. From the contentions mentioned above and from the fact Jordan played great teams, It is understood that he faced tough challenges. With this being said, Con clearly has the lead and win in this debate. |
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Pro Contention 1: Look, the things that Wilt's teammates did were and still are perfectly legal in basketball games, and the only person who could do those things was Wilt, so it is not an unfair difficulty advantage. It was just that Wilt had more talent AND he is the most physically gifted NBA player to play on the hardwood. He was even a Track and Field star at the University of Kansas, and won the high jump there. Contention 2: It is not dropped, it is just that I answered this in Rounds 2 and 3. Btw, Jordan's high is 69, and if he had had 7 more minutes a game, staying at that pace, he would have just topped Kobe's high of 81, and would still be 15 points or more off of Chamberlain's 100. Yes, I brought in the 100. Come at me bro. Contention 3: Still not dropped, and as I said, this was already answered in rounds 2 and 3. Nothing further is needed for this contention. Teams. My favorite part of this final round. 90-91 Lakers. Simple. They (Johnson and Worthy) were at the tail end of their careers, when less than a year later, Johnson announced his HIV and leaving, and Worthy retiring in '94. 91-92 Blazers. While I do admit Clyde the Glide was good, he wasn't close to the level of the people Chamberlain played against, and Terry Porter shouldn't be in this debate. 92-93 Suns. You have to admit Barkley was better in his 76er years, and Majerle shouldn't be involved. 95-96 Sonics. Yes, this was when Payton and Kemp were at their primes, while I do feel it's incorrect to call Kemp an all time great. I still don't think this could match up against some of the teams Wilt faced. 96-97 and 97-98 Jazz. Yes Stockton and Malone were greats, and I'm willing to concede that they are the only team who would match up to the teams in Chamberlain's Era. So, what teams do I keep on mentioning? Well, let's take a look at them 64-65 Celtics (pretty much the fabric for the '60's celtics teams) Greats: Bill Russell, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, and John 'Hondo' Havlicek. 70-71 Bucks Greats(still great at this time): 'The Big O' Oscar Robertson, and Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) 69-70 Knicks Greats: Walt 'Clyde' Frazier, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere 66-67 Warriors (Wilt Beat them in the finals) Greats: Rick Barry, Nate Thurmond, Chet Walker. Your turn Con, and as the memes say, Come at me Bro. Vote Pro. Con To start off I want to thank Pro, for proposing this topic for debate. He made great statements but he has clearly lost this debate. Here's why: Contention 1: Through my analysis I have clearly shown, Wilt and not Michael Jordan, had the easiest path to greatness. It took extra effort on Jordan's part, because he didn't have the players playing for him, he didn't have his team play through him. In Jordan's playing days, NO coach would ever tell him team to miss free throws intentionally, so the stat level for another player would be higher. It's not smart basketball and is detrimental to the team, but that's not the argument here. The argument is that instead of having 4 people play for him, whether legal or not, Jordan made his accomplishments by himself, with a greater difficulty in the game. Meaning he had to be a better player than Wilt. Contention 2: 60+, sorry I had a typo, for Jordan. Now, here is the first place you went wrong, by stating the 100 point game. Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game had ridiculous numbers. Over the course of the entire game Wilt Chamberlain took 63 shots and shot 32 free throws. In a 4 quarter game without overtime, the most shots Jordan has ever taken was 43 and the most free throws was 27. This means Wilt shot 20 more shots than Jordan ever did, and 5 more Free Throws a game than he did. The issue comes down to, did Wilt score 100 points and how did he do it? Yes, he did set the all time record for scoring, but it also took the most shots by any player in a single game in history to accomplish it. So to use that as a point is irrelevant to this debate. Contention 3: I win this because defense in Michael's day was proven to be tougher than defense in Wilt Chamberlain's days, which hampered the ability of Michael to perform at the same level. Pro agreed that the defenses in Michael's day were tougher, so you have to look at this as a winning argument for negative. And finally to the random arguments that have finally been titled as "Teams". Pro claims this is his favorite part of the round, but unfortunately for Pro, this is where the Con side passes the stage to the fat lady so she can sing. Pro goes through and talks about some of the players mentioned above and then lists some players that Wilt and Jordan faced. Then he continues on to elaborate about the extensive hall-of-famers Wilt had to face in his day. Well let's have a look at some of the hall of famers that Jordan faced. Jordan: Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Hakeem Olajuwan, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Allen Iverson, Charles Barkley, Moses Malone, Dominique Wilkins, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Clyde Drexler, David Robinson, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, Patrick Ewing, James Worthy, Kevin Garnett, George Gervin, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe Mutombo, and the list goes on...and on.......and on that is just 29 there, don't believe me? Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Mark Price, etc. Now we are at 32, and I can still name more Fat Lady: Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala......Connnnnnnnnnnn issss the Victorrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! *opera voice* Thanks once again for this debate, Pro, but the fat lady has just sung, it's all over. Vote for this debate should clearly go to Con. Vote Con. |
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Posted by codyholt4 1 month ago
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Posted by daytonanerd 1 year ago
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Posted by PolicyKing501 1 year ago
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Posted by Apollo.11 1 year ago
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2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ixaax 12 months ago
| daytonanerd | PolicyKing501 | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - |  | - | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | | - | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | - | | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | | - | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | | - | - | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | | - | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 3 | 3 |
Reasons for voting decision: Slight argument advantage to Pro. Pro had spelling errors and opinionated sources.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 1 year ago
| daytonanerd | PolicyKing501 | Tied | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agreed with before the debate: | - | - | | 0 points |
| Agreed with after the debate: | - | - | | 0 points |
| Who had better conduct: | - | - | | 1 point |
| Had better spelling and grammar: | - | | - | 1 point |
| Made more convincing arguments: | - | - | | 3 points |
| Used the most reliable sources: | - | - | | 2 points |
| Total points awarded: | 0 | 1 |
Reasons for voting decision: Args-tied. S and G for capitalization errors