The Instigator
Khafre
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Lt.Harris
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

With equal circumstances and prep time Batman could not beat Superman

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 889 times Debate No: 55090
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Khafre

Pro

This debate will consist of four rounds. I started this because I have seen alot of arguments on how batman could win, However almost always there has to be a scenario, or a disadvantage to Superman, I am a Superman fan, I would like to have it settled that on an equal playing field (Albeit, as equal as it can get for these two...) Superman would win.
This is not a question of whether Batman COULD win, but an argument that Batman would win, granted equal prep time.

*Also I would like to point out that simply saying Bruce Wayne would buy the finite amount of Kryptonite in the world and throw it all at Superman, does not count. As far as the bat suit, I will concede that this is the typical bat suit he has and that any one of these objects he would have on him at any given time.
http://everythingcapedcrusader.weebly.com...

The setting is as follows: Earth. Yellow Sun.

First Round will serve as Acceptance
Lt.Harris

Con

I accept this debate. I do want to clarify that Batman does have more than one type of kryptonite and while he can't buy all of it, he does have more than one type at his disposal on his person at all times. Just wanted to make that clear that yes, he cannot but all of it but he still does have some. I would like to thank my opponent for this debate. I think it will be interesting.
Debate Round No. 1
Khafre

Pro

As per the topic of this debate, I think it would be prudent to start with a definition of the "Man of Steel"
He is Kryptonian with the following powers:
Superhuman strength, speed, hearing, longevity, stamina, and intelligence
Invulnerability, Flight, Freezing breath, Multiple extrasensory and vision powers, along with an astonishing Healing factor.

Aside from the list of abilities that Kal-El possesses, he also has been written throughout the cannon storyline of DC, dating back to the 1970's as being limitless in power and use of the aforementioned powers to such an extent that writers had a hard time finding villains for him, which lead to a reboot.

Superman has used his powers (strength, stamina, invulnerability) to move planets, survive blows from the most powerful villains in the DC world and defeat them (Darksied, Mongol, General Zod, Bizarro) . There is practically no way that Batman, even with prep time, could create or find a machine that would grant him this kind of strength, speed, and power.

Superman also possesses and eidetic memory, super intelligence that has allowed him to out think Lex Luthor, who was stated to at one point have a 12th level intellect, and being arguably the most intelligent human in the Universe . Along with this he has access to the Fortress of Solitude that has the combined knowledge of the 28 known Galaxies.

Also on a biological level Superman's ability to absorb yellow sun radiation and store it in his body makes it so that he can have in essence reserves of strength, that he does not necessarily tap into unless he must.

As far as his vulnerability to Kryptonite, Superman has on more than occasion made use of suits that have eliminated his susceptibility to the meteorite. This being said even in the case that Batman is able to somehow get the suit off kryptonite does not kill Superman, only make him weak. There are storylines and non-cannon story arcs that insinuate otherwise, but most fans will accept that it weakens him and over a long period of time it can become fatal (This can be debated).

Also another point of contention to make concerning Kryptonite, is that it has proven to have, over time, a cancerous affect to our, human, biology. After Lex Luthor made the Kryptonite into a ring and wore it for months, it resulted in him having to amputate that finger due to the cancer and health issues it created. Batman may keep Kryptonite with him, but as seen with Lex, a suit or a piece of jewelry would have severe effects on him that would in the end be counter-productive. Also with his heat vision Superman would be able to avoid him and blast the kryptonite.

The overall fact is that while Batman is in my opinion one of, if not, the greatest mortal/human superheroes in DC he and Superman on different levels in terms of strength, villains, and power. That being said there is no shortcomings for stating that. With equal prep time and circumstance Superman would win in a fight with Batman.

The major points of the argument is that while Batman may have intelligence, Superman possesses an equal amount of intelligence, Strength, stamina, invulnerability and heat vision. Everything that Batman can do with prep time Superman can do better with the same amount of prep time, without the aid of mechanisms, meteor, devices and outside aid.

Thank you.
Lt.Harris

Con

This will be difficult. Thank you for taking this seriously. Too many people make these and then don't do anything at all but say "Superman is better" (or whatever the superhero is).
*I understand that Superman may not be immediately succeptable to SOME kryptonite, "Another form of kryptonite is blue kryptonite. In my opinion, blue kryptonite is the nicest kryptonite. It doesn't do much to Superman. All it does is eliminate his powers as long as he's around it." That quote is directly from the site you provided. I would like to point at that assuming Batman had this blue kryptonite, all he would have to do would be to force Superman into a more enclosed area and then Superman would be defenseless. So, while Superman starts out stronger, Batman does have ways to counter act that.
*You state that Superman can do better with the same about of prep time, without the aid of mechanisms, meteor, devices, and outside aid. However, you stated that he has suits that counter-act kryptonite. I believe a suit would be considered a mechanism. Outside help would include "access to the Fortress of Solitude that has the combined knowledge of the 28 known galaxies." If Batman used help (Fox) than Batman could easily be able to know exactly where Superman is, all the time using Fox's resources and technology.
That's all I have for now as I believe that I have shown some ways that Batman can win. I await your counter-argument. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
Khafre

Pro

I knew going into this that there would be a focus on Kryptonite, and that is perfectly alright.

The reality of this fight is that Batman, regardless of his knowledge and combat ability, is going to use technology, weapons, and devices to win (if he can).

That being said the use of technology from either side is not expressly forbidden. However, noting that lead stops the radiation from all kryptonite from affect Superman, a suit designed or laced with lead would in effect stop all forms of Kryptonite from weakening Superman.

Stating that Batman would have the ability to counter act the raw power and strength of arguably the greatest superhero in DC, does not suffice. Batman is SMART, but that is in all honesty his greatest asset.... his mind. Some of Batman's greatest moments come from his ability to predict and prevent criminals plans or actions. If Batman were to be capable of winning this fight, he would have to win the fight before it would begin. That being said the only "one up" that he would have to do this would be the kryptonite, which I have stated could easily be counter acted with the aid of suits line with lead.

As far as the Fortress of Solitude being outside help. I will clarify that statement. Using outside help would be considered using the sonar vision that Fox provided Batman when taking out the Joker. It constitutes assistance, aid, or help that occurs during the fight. To simply use the resources that you have at your disposal, whether it be Fox, or the Fortress to prepare for a fight with opponent is not breaking the rules of engagement for the fight.

The point of the fight is to prove that if given equal ability to prepare for the fight that Superman would defeat Batman in a fight.

If Superman were to think about how Bruce Wayne would try to defeat him. Kryptonite would naturally be the first thing to come to mind. This, naturally, would lead to Superman countering that before the fight stated. Also there are these factors to consider. Superman could X-Ray vision to see if there is kryptonite there. When the fight starts Superman does not particularly have to draw it out like Hollywood would. He moves faster than a speeding bullet... He could fly up to batman, break his neck and the fight would be over.

While there are those that would say that this is "cheating", those are the fans that would have the character (Superman) put at a disadvantage. The character was written with these abilities. It is the very reason that he is physically superior to Batman.

In the game Injustice: Gods among us. Superman did not gain control of the world and its Superheroes because he drew out fights, he brutal, fast, quick, and decisive. All of which when combined with his ability lead to him controlling other supernatural beings. A point to note is that in that storyline batman did not face him, but fled and attempted to regroup by start a rebellion, which he technically did not win until Superman in essence defeated himself.

All this to say that there are very few being in the universe that could defeat Superman. And Batman is not one of them.
While using kryptonite is not "cheating" it is a temporary, and sometimes ineffective, if Superman does effectively prepare for it.

I look forward to argument.
Thank you.
Lt.Harris

Con

Given the same time, I believe that Batman could come up with a suit, at the essence of which would be kryptonite, also able to break through lead. Using a version of the acetylene torch he has (more powerful) he could destroy Superman's suit and thus, leave him vulnerable to kryptonite. Yes, this fight will focus on kryptonite as there is no other way to beat Superman (who, in my opinion, is the most pointless superhero ever created). That's how Batman would get around the lead suit part. I also have to believe that, with a lead suit, Superman's abilities would be greatly slowed down, as it would weight a lot. A gallon of lead is 95.08 lbs. When you have it molten, ready to cast your mold, the amount of lead you would use would be enormous if you hoped to stop kryptonite. Thus, I believe that even though Superman is strong, he would have to focus on something more than just fighting, putting him at a disadvantage, letting Batman get that suit off of him. Batman would not be so stupid as to approach Superman in a place where he did not have the advantage. He would do it in a closed in space where Superman would seen/heard the second an appearance was made. If Superman didn't have the lead suit, Batman would easily set up kryptonite traps. If he did, Batman would set up a furnace. Batman could also evade the x-ray detection by blending in. Making it so that even when seen, he looks like part of the environment. That is one of the skills that Batman is most well known for.

When you talked about how outside help like Batman using the sonar vision given would be cheating, I disagree. Batman would have that set up way in advance and, as it already is set up, all he has to do is turn it on. That isn't outside help. Batman relies on his own technology to win. If he started out knowing where Superman was, he could easily keep track of him. I agree that Superman is fast, but kryptonite would weaken him significantly without a suit and with a suit, Superman would be slowed down.
Debate Round No. 3
Khafre

Pro

The arguments that you are giving are good, and while almost convincing they do fall short.

The argument that Superman would be slowed down by the weight of the lead is a mute point. Superman prior to both reboots, was stated at having practically limitless strength. In All star superman he was shown lifting 200 quintillion tons and stated that he felt he could lift more (mind you this was because his body was saturated with yellow sun radiation, but the point still stands). After the The New 52 reboot, he is stated to be able to lift and possibly exceed "5.972 sextillion metric tons". His strength, stamina and speed are not a factor in simply wearing a suit that at the most would way 2-3 metric tons at the absolute most... and that's with a complete over exaggeration.

As far as attempting to state that Batman would be able to create a suit that could disable Superman's.... Consider this...
Superman in essence, to win this fight, has only to take away batman's access to Kryptonite. This would include his suit and simply picking up Batman and moving the fight else where. The point that I am making is that Superman and Batman are not equal. Stating that Superman would not have a lead suit is like saying that Batman is going to come to this fight without Kryptonite because the prolonged use and exposure to it could cause cancer. Its simply not going to happen.

Establishing that the suit and its weight would not be an issue for The Man of Steel, and noting that with the suit making him practically invincible. There is little to no chance of success for The Dark Knight.

As for "blending in" Superman's x-ray vision does not work like that. It does not see the traditional color spectrum, or lack there of, that Batman generally makes use of. Superman would be able to see Batman if he was there. The only way that he could hide from Superman would be to in case himself in lead, which would defeat the purpose of have the Kryptonite in the first place.

To the point of the sonar vision and outside help. Fox was helping him operate it... If you can honestly say that Bruce did not need Fox there to help him use it, then I would agree that its fine to use. However we see Fox directing the sonar, and relaying information to Bruce so that he could make sense of what he was seeing. (especially when the Sonar went out, and Fox had to fix.

I will end with this the truth is that Superman and Batman are not equal, even with equal prep time and circumstance. The reality is that while Batman is an impressive hero, he is not Superman. Superman is the other worldly, somewhat god-like hero that consistently saves the day against the strongest opponents, and fights with an unshakable morality. Batman is the flip side of that coin. He defeats his enemies by his mind, will, and body (which is what Superman does). His moral compass is more flexible, but never breaks. His strongest opponent is Bane, and he almost always defeats him by detaching the poison, or in the case of the movie, his mask. Some would say that they are two sides of the same coin. One with the power to protect humans from threats with sheer power and strength; the other with brains and will. However when faced with defeating each other, Superman would win in fight. Batman has been praised and elevated due to television media and popularity.

I am in no way stating that he is not one of the greatest superhero's, but he is not able to defeat Superman.
Lt.Harris

Con

Lt.Harris forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Khafre 3 years ago
Khafre
Its perfectly okay. I hope you enjoyed the visit :)
Posted by Lt.Harris 3 years ago
Lt.Harris
My apologies on the forfeit. We had visitors from out of the country and I have not been able to get on in a few days.
Posted by Khafre 3 years ago
Khafre
I do not have any objections to the site that you provided as proof.
Posted by Lt.Harris 3 years ago
Lt.Harris
Just to clarify, will you let me use my website for this debate or would you rather I just stick with your website?
Posted by Khafre 3 years ago
Khafre
I looked at your site and I can agree that is a more accurate and detailed profile of Batmans equipment, and suit. I thank you for accepting and very much look foward to this debate.
Posted by Lt.Harris 3 years ago
Lt.Harris
Hey. I would love to do this debate but I don't like the website you gave. It doesn't properly fit him. I think that batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman's_Gadgets is a much better site. Please respond as I would love to debate this. Everything on there was written by a mixture of Christian Bale Batman and then comic book Batman fans (pretty much any comic book of him).
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