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Without God, our lives lack any ultimate objective purpose, meaning, or value.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/9/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 697 times Debate No: 82281
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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No kritiks,
No ad hominem

I am not saying that people cannot have a subjective illusion of purpose without God. Nor am I saying that atheists are necessarily bad or boring people. What I am defending is that if God does not exist, life has no ultimate objective meaning, value, or purpose.

Humanity is irrevocably doomed to die in the cold void of the heat death thanks to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. We could maybe make it out of the galaxy, we could at best escape the death of our sun, but we can't escape the 2nd law. The struggles of the doctor, the scientist, and the humanitarian, all end the same: in nothing but cold oblivion.



Thank you, Pro, for offering your opening arguments.

Essentially, you argue that because everything that lives will die, and if there is not an afterlife, that would require all actions be completely meaningless.

I will offer two separate arguments that prove that wrong:

Meaning In Life Can Only Have Value If It Is Limited:

Life is made up of many moments. As ever human only has a specific amount of them, living anywhere from around 0-100 years, those moments can be precious. However, the more moments you have, the less precious they can be.

Moments can be like diamonds. Having a few diamonds would be nice, as they would have lots of value. But, if you had an unlimited amount of diamonds, the value of each would be basically nothing.

So, if humans have a limited time on earth, to live the lives they want to live, then that is real value, as they have to make the most of that time. However, if there is an afterlife, where people will leave for eternity, then their lives would become meaningless. If you live forever, you cannot have any goals; you have no deadlines; you have no fears.

I mean, truly imagine what existence would even mean in a spirtual world like "heaven." What would be the point of life? You're immortal, there is no evil at all, only good. What would you do for eternity? How would you keep from becoming bored? How would you pass the time? Is the point of heaven just for pleasure; for fun? How is that a meaningful value?

People Might Be Able to Live Forever:

If my opponent disagrees with my first argument, we need not assume that immortality is something that can only exist in a "spiritual realm." As we have recently sequenced the genetic code, and as science continues to improve, it may become possible that we discover methods in which to prolong human life, maybe even indefinitely.

Even if we can't prolong human life, we may be able to clone humans. When one version of us dies, we could clone that person, and they could live their life all over again, except with entirely new environments and circumstances.

As for the universe eventually dying, that is definitely true, but there may be multiple universes out there. Humans may discover methods in which to travel to other universes, and if those universes are endless, then there is no issue with humans continuing to live on, alternating between universes when needed.

Debate Round No. 1



Meaning In Life Can Only Have Value If It Is Limited:

Just because each moment becomes less noticable, that doesn't by no means reduce the collective worth of all of our "moments", so to speak. If there is no God, it doesn't matter whatsoever if you lived a good life or a bad life, or if you lived life to the fullest. After you die there is really nothing left for you. its not like you can look back after you are dead and say; I had a great life. Any value you placed on your experiences is moot after the cessation of existence which follows death. You might say that you live for others, for the betterment of the human race. But no matter our efforts, the human race is pretty much doomed no matter how much we try to avoid extinction.

The problem with the idea of immortality in heaven becoming boring would be that God is an INFINITE good. An infinite good is something that you could never, ever grow weary of. But any number of finite goods, no matter how amazing, will eventually set into eternal ennui. There are only so many times you can conquer a world, or fly a spaceship until it becomes boring and dull. it may take a long time, but it WILL set in. But if there is a God, we know that our existence has some real meaning. We were created for a purpose, a reason. We aren't accidents of random chance, but beings who were created for a reason.

i.e dependent on your opinion not objective meaning. Secondly, I would certainly say that your very argument can be applied especially well to the pains of immortality upon naturalism.

Even if we could live forever, all the pleasures of the world would eventually descend into extreme boredom.

"To illustrate, an astronaut was marooned on a barren chunk of rock lost in outer space. He had with him two vials: one containing poison and the other a potion that would make him live forever. Realizing his predicament, he gulped down the poison. But then to his horror, he discovered he had swallowed the wrong vial—he had drunk the potion for immortality. And that meant that he was cursed to exist forever—a meaningless, unending life.We could still ask of life, "So what? I can live forever.". Just living forever doesn't make life meaningful without something to give living any objective meaning."

Read more:

If you had a clone, that clone would not be "you" so to speak. Much like a man and his twin, a clone and a person are two different people, who just happen to share the same genetic code. Copying yourself exactly, won't make them "you", or have the same mind. Some trans-humanists might say that we could upload our brains into computers, but despite the dubiousness of whether or not that copy is actually "you" or just another copy, even if we could no matter what, there is still the possibility of failure. When one computer or body wears out, we would have to be uploaded to a new one. Given how protons actually have a half life, thisTwo things seem likely to happen:

1. As humans we always have the possibility of error, and if we are talking about an infinite period of time, one day that transmission will fail, and your mind will either be copied incorrectly, or dissapear into oblivion. Even if it is merely a small chance, remember the monkey with a type writer. If something has a non-zero chance of happening, given an infinite period of time it will happen.

2. Your body could die before you can be "reincarnated" or re-uploaded. Given the . Not to mention if there is an infinite amount of worlds, there would definitely be races VASTLY more powerful than humanity, who could wipe us out with but a whisper. And as this has a non-zero chance of happening, it WILL happen given an infinite period of time.

Also the idea of travelling to another universe is (sadly) pure science fiction right now. Remember the hawking-Preskill-Thorne bet? Information or matter cannot leave this universe.

I would like to point out that if my opponent disproves that life has ultimate meaning, value or purpose with God, he does not prove that life has any ultimate value without Him.

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Ts eliot

Life has no meaning the moment you lose the illusion of being eternal
jean paul sartre.

In the consciousness of the truth he has perceived, man now sees everywhere only the awfulness or the absurdity of existence and loathing seizes him.

Friedrich Nietszche


Thank you, Pro, for offering your rebuttals.

Meaning In Life Can Only Have Value If It Is Limited:

What makes life valuable is that we have an idea of that which is precious. A world where things can only be discovered once, where life may end at any time, these make life valuable. In a world of immortality, nothing would be precious. Everything would be infinite, and with no purpose. What would be the purpose of life in heaven? My opponent didn't give an answer to this, he merely stated that since because God is infinite, it answers the objection. Even if God exists, and is infinite, you would still have to explain how that gives meaning to an immortal existence.

In this world, I can have meaning by helping those that are suffering. I can help lead them to a better path. I could invent something beneficial to humanity.

But, in a heaven-like existence, you cannot help others. You can't invent anything. Everything would be perfect, and no one would be in need of anything. How can there be meaning in that?

My opponent then gave an example of an astronaut marooned in outer space, and chose to drink poison over living for eternity. Granted, this astronaut was alone. However, I would argue that adding more people to dilemma would still lead towards the same outcome. Why would you want to live forever? Authors have tackled this thought countless times, and have always conceded that living forever only causes the longing for death.


My opponent objects to my argument for clones. He argues that they wouldn't be the same person. This is very true. They would be the same physical person as you, but different circumstances and environments would alter them on a psychological level.

But that was just one possibility for longevity of the human race, not for the immortality of the individual.

My opponent argued that humans always have the possibility of error. He somehow then equates this with meaning that we could accidentally wipe out the entire human race at some point in the future. The conclusion does not follow from the premises. Sure, there may be some mistakes along the way, but humanity as a whole will still continue to progress.

My opponent argued that in an infinite world set, there would be races of species vastly more powerful than humans. Even in an infinite world set, events are limited by what is realistically possible (i.e. in the constraints of physical and logical limitations). I would argue that some kind of magical species that could wipe out all of humanity in a whisper is realistically impossible.

My opponent argued that information cannot leave this universe. It was proven that if information goes into a black hole, that information will eventually come back out, albeit jumbled up. However, this is only in relation to a black hole. A wormhole is a theoretical concept that could allow information to travel to another universe.

My opponent also argued that I haven't shown that life can have ultimate value without God. However, my first argument was that real value can only exist without God. Real value can only exist in a world where things can be destroyed, and suffering happens. In a heaven-like world with God, there cannot be real value or meaning.

Debate Round No. 2


Sunfire315 forfeited this round.


Lupricona forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Brandon221423 2 years ago
The "ultimate objective purpose" of life for humans is to advance humanity. Everyone's goals should be centered on the furthering of human existence making every step or hardship better for the ones we leave behind.
Posted by canis 2 years ago
With or with out a god. Any "ultimate objective purpose, meaning, or value" would be 100 % the same.
Posted by Retributionist 2 years ago
Oh perfect, Interstella!

He's going into the topic of Wormholes now...
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
god is the lack of meaning of life
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