The Instigator
9spaceking
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Rasputin45
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Wizard's Quidditch Should be Banned

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Rasputin45
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,193 times Debate No: 59765
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

9spaceking

Pro

Muggles, wizards, and half-bloods alike, hearken to what I have to say! There has been many dispute among you fellows whether or not the sport known as Wizard's Quidditch, with a capital "Q", is safe or not. Our council has officially decided that it should be banned. However, we do not know of your opinion. If anyone would like to step up, please come up and accept as round one! There will be 6,000 characters each round and 72 hours for each of us to argue. Do not take too long and run out of time though, our council will be very angry and consider putting you into jail!
Finally, this is all I have to say to the rest of you folks: vote for whoever made their case better, and upheld their case more strongly. Keep in mind that burden of proof is shared and I need to show Quidditch needs to be banned, while my opponent must show that Quidditch should be kept as a official sport required to play in wizarding school!
Thank you, thank you all.
Rasputin45

Con

I shall prove to you that Quidditch, with a capital Q, should not be banned. The sport Quidditch is a very popular game played on brooms, many times described by young wizards as the "Greatest sport in the world!" There are seven players, three chasers, two beaters, a keeper and a seeker. I plan to prove the benefits of the sport, compare the sport with muggle sports and show that the sport is not so dangerous compared to the larger wizarding world.

I look forward to an entertaining wizards duel.
Debate Round No. 1
9spaceking

Pro

Ah, we have a serious contester! He has never lost a debate! This should be interesting.

1. Quidditch is far too dangerous

(Start the video at around 1:30) Quidditch is played with brooms flying everywhere. However, it is so high, with hundreds of feet below. If a student were to fall, then he or she would more than likely die, unless some person in the audience or the coach could spot him or her among the massive chaos. In addition, with the big problem of the bludger, falling off is quite easy, especially for those chasers, since the chasers have to hold the broomstick with one hand and use their other hand to throw the quaffle, if they have a quaffle in their hand. If a beater cannot get the bludger in time, then the chaser would likely lose his or her balance, fall off, and have a big chance of dying, or at least survive and suffer trauma. In addition, even if the bludger does not hit the player, it is very likely to hit the broomstick, forcing the player to lose his or her balance and more than likely crash or fall off. In fact, even looking at Harry, the amazing seeker--the fastest and most versatile player on the team--in his 6th year he was knocked out injured! [1] We're not even looking at the other players, only at The Boy Who Lived!! Even this Chosen One can get harmed; imagine how the others could have been injured!

1b. Quidditch is far too dangerous
In addition to the harms that could occur with those bludgers, if someone else seemingly dangerous is harming the wizarding world, then dementors must guard the school. But dementors aren't always trustworthy! In fact, in that wikipedia source I refered above-- [1], Harry fell during a match due to dementors, narrowly getting his soul sucked out of him, just showing how untrustworthy these terrible soul-suckers can be. The bludger is already enough trouble, but with dementors possibly popping up, Quidditch is near impossible to play without any injuries to the players, especially during these times of stress.

2. No one follows the rules
There are hundreds and hundres of rules in Quidditch, including over 700 fouls, so it might be understandable that a rule is occasionally broken, as in soccer where people occasionally get yellow cards, and rarely sometimes get red cards. However, in Quidditch, people break rules much more often than in any other game! Why? Everything is so choatic, there is no way the coach/referee could follow everyone and still make sure that everyone follows the rules! In fact, Wikipedia refers to a breaking of a foul immediately after almost every single foul! [2] This shows how unruly and obstreperous the students can be, especially those Slytheriens, considering how sly and malicious they can be. And we're not even putting magical steroids as a possibility for these players...

3. The stupid, stupid Snitch
Why is there that ball which is worth 150 points anyways?? What were the creators thinking?? There are only two cases in which the seeker caught the Snitch but still lost. [3] However fast the Snitch may be, I doubt the opponent can score 16 quaffle goals before the seeker catches the Snitch. There are "Rare occasions in which the game lasts months", [3] and that may seem exciting, since the players are trying to catch up so that when they catch the Snitch, they win, but these "Rare occasions" get very boring. It's the same thing over and over, and the players get more tired as they go along. Eventually, everyone will have to stop at a point and just sit on their broomsticks for a few minutes or otherwise collapse with exhaustion while the audience boos and yawns. As can seen, the Snitch is worth far too much, and even if its fastness can make up for its points, if it is too fast for the seekers, games will get very boring. Keep in mind that games can technically go on forever if the seeker does not manage to catch the Snitch, since the Snitch is the only way to end the game!! In addition, the game too much heavily relies on the Seeker. The rest of the team could be injured and almost dead, lying in a heap on the floor, and the opponent could be scoring 140:0, and they're just about to score another goal with the quaffle....when the seeker catches the Snitch. This just shows how dumb the Snitch is and how much points it is worth: far too much.

4. The goal isn't even to win!!
The goal of Quidditch is actually to gain the most points at the end of the year.[4] That's right--every single game matters. But seriously, you could technically lose ALL of the matches before the final (get less points than the opponent) and still "win" at the end by winning the final.
Let me demonstrate these sample games: (ending: slytherien wins)

GAME ONE
Slytherien: 140
Gryffendor: 150
Ravenclaw: 60
Hufflepuff: 150

GAME TWO
S: 270
H: 300
R: 210
G: 200

GAME THREE
S: 350
G: 360
H: 370
R: 360

FINAL GAME
Slytherien: 560
Hufflepuff: 450
Gryffendor: 440
Ravenclaw: 550

As shown above as long as you stay close to the top score, you can still catch up in the final game, which is really unfair. If it were working for winning rather than gaining points, Quidditch would be far more exciting. (And Slytherien would not win the Quidditch Cup of the entire year)

In conclusion wizard's Quidditch should be banned due to its dangerous nature, its potential longetivity and boringness, its stress of importance on the too-much-points-Snitch, and overall lameness of the scoring system. Too much needs to be changed; wizards should play a different sport altogether.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Rasputin45

Con

Yes it is true I have never lost but that is mainly due to the fact that many of my opponents forget to post their arguments.


1. Death in Quidditch
Many of you muggles like to look upon the sport with a face that says, "YOU CAN'T PLAY THAT SPORT, YOU'LL BLOODY DIE," but I'd like to contest this notion. First, according to Oliver Wood, the head of the Griffindor Quidditch team in the first volume of Harry Potter's Biography, people have rarely died playing quidditch, but referees have been known to disappear and be found weeks later in the Sahara desert. My opponent would have you believe the high probability of someone dying playing the sport but if that is true then maybe in the 1000+ years or so it has been played, their might be a high number of recorded deaths. In comparison, many people have died in association with football since the 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org...). Would you have football banned as well?

2. A dangerous Sport for a dangerous world I do concede however that Quidditch is a dangerous sport, that much is true, but consider that the magical world must have thousands of variant magical creatures with the power of destruction to humanity and not only have wizards and witches survived them but have concealed them to the non-wizarding eye. Hogwarts alone in Harry Potter's first year had a three-headed dog, human-choking vines and a giant chess-board of evil white pieces protecting a stone that the second most powerful wizard in the world desired. The point is that in Hogwarts, you don't want to dote the children and wrap them in protective clothing. Harry Potter said it right in his fifth year, Defence against the dark arts is supposed to teach wizards how to deal with what is out there! That is the same for the entire magical curriculum.

3. Magical healing properties In Harry Potter's second year, a bludger was confunded to follow only him. I do admit that his very fast broom and his excellent skill helped him avoid that bludger but consider that the confunder, the house elf Dobby, confessed that the bludger was designed not to kill but to seriously injure. It did break his arm in the end but it was only the incompetence of the DADA teacher Lockhart and his removal of all the bones in Harry's arm that gave Harry a painful night and a disgusting bottle of Skelligrow. Magical healing can sort out a whole range of things. Missing an eye and a leg? http://static.giantbomb.com...
It took a night to regrow Harry's arm bones and a couple of minutes to get Aidan Lynch, the Irish seeker in the 1994 quidditch world cup, back onto his broom after colliding into the ground due to Viktor Krum's wronski faint: a deadly move that requires a high-speed dive from the air, tricking the enemy seeker into thinking you have found the snitch causing him to join you in the dive, then pulling out at the last moment, leaving the other seeker to crash.

I have restricted this round to the dangers of Quidditch and next round I shall talk about the brilliance of the game itself and its popularity plus some rebuttals. Thank you for your time.

Sources:
Harry Potters Biography:
Volume 1
Volume 2
Volume 4
Volume 5
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
9spaceking

Pro

DEATH BY QUIDDITCH: Then at least people would have broken bones. Those other dangerous sports are mostly reserved for adults. As seen in the football death thing in my opponent's source, only ONE CHILDREN is recorded to have died. [1] Boxing is similar; while people can die, boxing is reserved for adults only. NASCAR as well. All the extreme-to-the-maximum-sports, Skydiving, Bungee-Jumping, Rock-Climbing-a-real-mountain, these are all reserved for either the best of the best teengers, or the adults.
Plus, the movies/books are unrealistic. Harry/Anyone else seriously shouldn't have survived falls from their broomsticks. People can't even survive 7-story falls [4], no way they can survive a 100-feet fall.

DANGEROUS WORLD: As if you couldn't accidentally hit someone with a wand and break the rule that "Players may take their wands onto the pitch, but they must not be used on or against any players, any player's broomstick, the referee, any of the four balls, or the spectators. (The right to carry wands at all times was granted during the height of wizard and witch persecution by Muggles, according to Quidditch Through the Ages)." [2] Plus, you only learn DatDA during your fifth year. Harry and the other studnets are in danger for 4/7 of their years, yeah, that's totally not dangerous. [3]

MAGICAL HEALING PROPERTIES: But the fall/injury would still hurt. Nobody likes getting hurt. Nobody would play Quidditch with such risks (with the possible exception of Gryffendor), but especially, nobody would play against Slytherien (again, with the exception of Gryffendor), since Slytheriens break so many rules so many times.

Again, I remind my opponent he has failed to rebut the fact that the rules are easily broken throughout many games, many of times. Once more, the stupid Snitch is really really dumb. Even the muggles are smart enough to know that--in their "quidditch" they even made it only 30 points, [5] showing us how dumb and over-priced our Snitch is. And finally, my point that the goal wasn't even to win in most of the games is NOT rebutted as well. Three unrebutted points; my opponent has better catch up.

[1] http://www.bbc.com...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] http://www.chinasmack.com...
[5] http://www.usquidditch.org...
Rasputin45

Con

Thank you for a competent rebuttal.

1. Brilliance of the Game.
The Idea of quiddiitch is that there are 4 different kinds of players with different ideal builds and tactics, yet no-one is more important than the other theoretically. The snitch is designed to be hard to catch, so the seekers need to be quick, agile and sharp-eyed. The quaffle needs to be thrown into the hoops, so the chasers must be good at throwing and passing; they also need to work together to get the quaffle into the hoops. The keeper has to guard not one but three hoops, so he needs to be extremely aware as to where the quaffle is. The beaters need to be strong and able to whack the bludgers hard enough to deter a chaser. While the snitch does get a lot of points and wins the game they are very fast and small so that gives the chasers and keepers responsibility as well. Football (Soccer) on the other hand has two different people, defenders and attackers and people can easuly swithch between the two while in quidditch there much more diversity. According to acedemic D. Bruno Starrs, the game is also unique because it can encompass different size/builds and genders into one team.

2. It's just so popular
Pro has brought up valid points, but no-one in the wizarding world seems to care. They know about the snitch and broken bones yet they love it anyway. It has been said repeatedly throughout Harry's biography that quidditch is the greatest sport in the world. It has been played for a millenium and has been incorporated by wizarding schools despite the dangers it can bring to players. Apart from the danger argument, no argument says that we should ban the sport; just because you think the game is flawed, doesn't mean we should remove the fun that people are having with the sport.

Rebuttals:

The Stupid, stupid Snitch

"There are only two cases in which the seeker caught the Snitch but still lost," yes but for this to be correct you first have to assume that every single quidditch game was reported in Harry's biography which of course is not true. "However fast the Snitch may be, I doubt the opponent can score 16 quaffle goals before the seeker catches the Snitch." Well, in Harry's biography it rarely happens, but consider that the people have brooms of different speeds and it isn't said that the snitch is regularly updated to be faster relative to brooms. Meanwhile, in the Bulgaro-Irish match, all the players have firebolts, the current fastest broom, and in that fight, Bulgaria got the snitch but Ireland won.

"There are "Rare occasions in which the game lasts months", [3] and that may seem exciting, since the players are trying to catch up so that when they catch the Snitch, they win, but these "Rare occasions" get very boring." Ok, that might get boring but how do you know. Have you attended a month-long match? Before the 1994 Bulgaro-Irish match, Authur Weasley said that some matches last months and Harry responds with "Wow, hope that happens this time." Now that doesn't say whether he wouldn't get bored but it still something.

The Goal isn't even to win!
"The goal of Quidditch is actually to gain the most points at the end of the year." While that's true for hogwarts, official competitions do not do this. So if we changed it to how competitions did it then this wouldn't be a problem, so why ban the sport?
Maybe if this debate was, 'Quidditch is a stupid/flawed sport.' Then your argument would be relevant.

No one follows the rules
First, it should be, no Slytherin follows the rules and that's just kind of expected. Out of the list of some of the fouls mentioned in Harry's biography, only five of them were ever commited at his time in school. Of the 700 total fouls, "most are now impossible to commit as there is a ban on using wands against an opponent (imposed in 1538)," So there isn't really anything to worry about when it comes to those fouls but what you're suggesting here is that we should not allow anyone to play quidditch becuase of those unruly slytherins.

DEATH BY QUIDDITCH
"As seen in the football death thing in my opponent's source, only ONE CHILDREN is recorded to have died." Then show me the source that any child in recent history has died due to quidditch.

"Plus, the movies/books are unrealistic. Harry/Anyone else seriously shouldn't have survived falls from their broomsticks. People can't even survive 7-story falls [4], no way they can survive a 100-feet fall." I know they are unrealistic, because it's fantasy world set in our own. Dragons, Giants and flying brooms are also unrealistic. So for them surviving long falls, I only have to say this: Poetic License.

DANGEROUS WORLD
"Plus, you only learn DatDA during your fifth year. Harry and the other studnets are in danger for 4/7 of their years, yeah, that's totally not dangerous. [3]" Sorry but I am confused. Students learn DADA from first year not fifth year, could you clarify what you mean in this statement.

MAGICAL HEALING PROPERTIES
"Nobody would play Quidditch with such risks (with the possible exception of Gryffendor), but especially, nobody would play against Slytherien (again, with the exception of Gryffendor), since Slytheriens break so many rules so many times." Well that's where your wrong, hufflepuffs and ravenclaws have definitly being playing quidditch at hogwarts. In fact, hufflepuff beat Griffondor twice in Harry's time at school.

"Even the muggles are smart enough to know that--in their "quidditch" they even made it only 30 points"
Do not let the death-eaters hear you say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Harry Potters Biography:
Volume 3
Volume 4
Volume 6
Debate Round No. 3
9spaceking

Pro

FINAL ROUND
1. Is Quidditch brilliant?
No. The seeker is far too important. Harry scores his goals in like no more than 10 minutes of movie time, no way can the opponent go so far on the offense as to score 16 quaffle goals. As for encompassing different size/builds and genders into one team, the keeper could easily be the beater, and the seeker is basically the best of the chasers.

2. Quidditch's popularity
There's a reason we banned collesium battles, they used to be popular, but people were dying too much and losing too much blood, and modern technology provides movies and shows where we can watch all the violence and gory we want without actually all the violence and gory. Now, the most dangerous/tough sport is boxing, but even that only breaks a bunch of bones, doesn't kill anyone--and keep in mind it's reserved for adults, while Quidditch is for little children who could easily get harmed and not handle the responsibility, unlike the adults in boxing. Everyone may have liked collesium battles in olden days, but everyone's moved on to less exciting but still seat-edge grabbing other-kind sports.

THE DUMB SNITCH
My opponent says " people have brooms of different speeds". This only proves that Quidditch is stupid; it's just a test of richness, whoever can get the firebolt gets the advantage, not everyone has a set broom. In contrast, the different sneakers provide little difference in running sports. As for Harry's wanting the match to last a month, it's probably because he's only been through 10-minute-games and wants something fresh.

Goal is not even to win: My point is, why do they do this in Hogwarts? Unfortunately, the rules are quite difficult to change, so changing these dumb rules in Hogwarts would be extremely difficult, so why not ban them completely?

BAN USE OF WANDS?
Okay, I have to drop this point, but this only helps another point--freedom of expression.
The rules says you are able to put your wand in your pocket, yet you cannot use it? Wow, that's totally not limiting the wizard's freedom of expression. They'll be quite eager to cheat, especially Slytheriens, and again, considering the choas, the referee is likely not to notice. Furthermore, my opponent even says sometimes the referee disappears and is randomly found in a dessert, inferring that the players teleported him away so that nobody would be there to see that they had broken the rules.

DEATH BY QUIDDITCH
Poetic license?? Oh come on, we're talking as if Quidditch was real. Even wizards cannot survive such a huge fall.

DANGEROUS WORLD
Oh, I'm sorry, that must have been a typo. Well, even the Chosen One wasn't able to defend himself, nothing shows that other not-so-worthy students would have been able to stand up to dementors.

MAGIC PROP.S
What I meant was, although everyone is forced to play, they would be unwilling to do so due to the injuries possible and the possibility of Slytherien cheating.
As for muggle quidditch, my opponent hasn't countered that point. He has yet to make a case for why the 150 Snitch is better than that 30 point snitch.

Thus, I believe I have fulfilled my BoP and upheld the resolution enough. All people of the wizarding world, VOTE ME if you want your children to be safe. VOTE ME if you are convinced that Quidditch should be banned!
Good debate.
Rasputin45

Con

Final Round.

Rebuttals

1. Is Quidditch Brilliant
Last round I explained why I thought it is a brilliant sport. It was part of my burden of proof to show why it was too good to be banned. My opponent rebuts this, but I don't think that is necerssary because he is trying to show why the sport should be banned. Even if it was the most stupid sport in the world it wouldn't matter because thats not reason enough for the sport to be banned.

2. Quidditch's popularity
"There's a reason we banned collesium battles, they used to be popular, but people were dying too much and losing too much blood," That why most gladiators were slaves. Your analogy doesn't hold up because Quidditch doesn't have the number of accidental deaths that the required deaths of the Colliseum.

3. The Dumb Snitch
That is a very good point and I cannot rebut it without contradicting myself. Yet I still ask why this means we should ban the sport altogether. Also, you didn't answer my question as to how you know for certain the boringness of a month-long match.

"the rules are quite difficult to change, so changing these dumb rules in Hogwarts would be extremely difficult, so why not ban them completely?" So, just writing something down and posting it to the governors and the sport staff is much more difficult than putting in place a full ban?

4. Ban use of wands?
What does any of this have to do with anything? "Wow, that's totally not limiting the wizard's freedom of expression." Well why not say players cannot bring their wands at all, that solves this....expression problem?

5. Death by Quidditch
"Oh come on, we're talking as if Quidditch was real." What are you talking about, of course Quidditch is real. Are you calling me a liar sir? ARE YOU CHALLENGING ME TO A WIZARDS DUEL SIR?
"Even wizards cannot survive such a huge fall." Well they must have for the last 1000 years the sport has been play. Or they are very good at staying on their brooms.

7. Magic Props

"What I meant was, although everyone is forced to play, they would be unwilling to do so due to the injuries possible and the possibility of Slytherien cheating." First, no-one is forced to play, except in the training which Harry and his friends had in first year but never had again for some reason. Second, you haven't rebutted the point that hufflepuffs and ravenclaws have played, despite the risk.

"As for muggle quidditch, my opponent hasn't countered that point." Muggle Quidditch? MUGGLE QUIDDITCH! How did those people find out about quidditch? What have those lazy idiots and the ministry of magic been doing to ensure the statute of secrecy?

"He has yet to make a case for why the 150 Snitch is better than that 30 point snitch." I don't see why I have to. Once again, the flaws in the sport do not mean it should be banned. I think 150 is too high but I also think 30 points is too low but I'm sure there is a middle ground. A simple shifting of numbers is much more simpler than banning the sport.

I think the Ministry are fools if they wish to allow muggles to learn of our presence and sport yet arrest young wizards for preforming patronus charms, even though they were threatened by an actual threat. I also think they are fools for trying ban an 1000 year old sport, an international sport rooted in history, with the reason that it is flawed when it comes to the role of seeker and the snitch. I would just like to ask them one thing: how much revenue was collected at the 1994 world cup?

Vote for me if you don't want to see this sport thrown away like the flying carpets. In the words of Ludo Bagman, "They'll never get rid of brooms!"
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
There was some good merit to pro's case, however it got buried under side tangents. The debate I came closest to losing I crippled myself in much the same way (ban holodecks).
Posted by Rasputin45 2 years ago
Rasputin45
Good Debate, 9spaceking. Certainly some heated contentions. I do admit, you have changed my mind somewhat on Quidditch, but you definitely made me think through my arguments. I still think the sport is quite unique and eccentric, which fits the world J.K. Rowling created. So thank you.
Posted by Rasputin45 2 years ago
Rasputin45
Don't worry, I'm not dead!
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
he'd better hurry on his argument or otherwise forfeit.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
oh, you'll see...
Posted by Victoria85176 2 years ago
Victoria85176
I think you just offended harry Potter...... that's low.......
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
9spacekingRasputin45Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's case boils down to how "little children" should not be able to play (people start playing as teenagers, AFAIK), and the sport should be modified to give less points for the snitch. Pro accidentally made a case for shopping being more dangerous than Quidditch (R3, S4). "Plus, the movies/books are unrealistic" hurt the credibility of his case; if the sport were not real there would be zero need to ban it. Somewhat disappointed by how long it took con to easily flip one source by quoting it "most are now impossible to commit as there is a ban on using wands." "Quidditch is for little children" poorly executed pathos appeal. "muggle quidditch, my opponent hasn't countered that point" I did not notice any relevance of that point, what muggles do baffle us all... Besides, at best this is requesting a modification, in no way supporting a ban. Plus failing to show the death rate when asked (wizards can even survive being stuck my lightening during it, with no lasting effects).