The Instigator
killerinstinct
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
FuzzyCatPotato
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Women Have It Much Easier Than Men In This Day and Age

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
FuzzyCatPotato
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/31/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 543 times Debate No: 55846
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

killerinstinct

Pro

It is easier to currently live in society as a women than a man. This applies only to western areas of the world (canada, usa)

1. Looks
Any woman can get a man 100% of the time. No I dont mean any girl can get every single guy she wants all the time. I mean that any girl, fat, ugly, tall, skinny, etc can always find herself a boyfriend or lay, at the drop of a hat.

A women can simply get as lazy and as fat as she wants and there will still be tons men who desire her. She can even push the boundaries to the point of stuffing herself to obesity and can still have her pick of skinny, buff, tall or short male, easily.

However if you are a man the exact opposite is the case. Unless you are reasonably good looking or have the most amazing or manipulative mind on the planet; getting women will become extremely depressing and stressful for you. Your choices are so much more limited than a women seeking a male, when the women is of arguably equal appearance to yourself.

Tons of men like and prefer obese women, where literally no girls but a selected few or sub-sub niche like obese men. Case and point there are thousands of labeled BBW, SSBBW, porn videos but never any labeled anything remotely like "bbw man goes at it with skinny chick".

On top of that it is almost implied and 90% of the time (unless you are an amazing looking guy) that you have to be the one to essentially sell yourself to the women. Look at how the bar scene is perceived for attempting to achieve coitus.

The stereotypical man will either approach the women with some lame compliment about her looks, or the "can I buy you a drink line". To which he basically stands trial awaiting her approval for either rejection or the right to proceed further and demonstrate more of his skills, in the hopes he can say/do enough things for her to "like him". The girl is essentially takes the role of a king, while the male a jester. One wrong move and he's blown out, rejected.

Then there is an entire industry essentially to "train" men how to basically "impress" women. The dating industry, dating coaches, pickup artists. Where a man is stressed out and drained of thousands in an attempt to get a woman. He can't understand why his masters degree, nice clothes, great job, nice car is simply not enough. Yet Peggy down the street and become an Oxycontin and dorito eating unemployed whale and still have a man any night of the week.

2. Money
While I have seen headlines dictating women typically make less money then men sometimes. This is because of gender segregation. Typically women work in different jobs than men, thus the less pay. If a women of equal skill to that of a man, are both put in the exact same job for something they can both handle well (clerical duties for example), the pay is the same.

However, a man with essentially no talents or looks is pretty much screwed if he has no skills- -- for earning a living.

Where as a women can head towards prostitution and earn a killing, cam shows, pr0n etc.

Dont want to do all of that, too vile? Well, no matter what you look like theres some guy online whos dateless, and sexless, who will gladly worship and become your sugar daddy at the drop of a hat.

3. Gender Equality
Women have made a stink about male oriented jobs and how they should be on equal terms for them. Equality -- women can do whatever men can, equal rights stuff. Such as policing. And it worked.

Yet if any physical arguments takes place between a couple, where fists are being thrown, a male will always take more heat. Suddenly now the strength gap "matters".

Similarly if a woman assaults a man, punching etc, it is seen much less serious than if the roles were reversed and a man was using equal or lesser force.

At the end of the day the only things we truly were put on this earth for is to survive and replicate. At the end of the day those two things are much more easily obtained from a lesser woman than a lesser male.

Why is there a lot more whack job males than women. Rape, killings, etc. This is because of the rejection, hardships and added stresses a male has compared to a women that eventually causes their psych to snap.

Just look at that elliot rodgers case. Yes the kid was messed up in the head, but a girl in a similar position would of have a loving boyfriend it would have never come to that.

Need data driven proof?

Suicide rates are high for males in every country. 5-10x higher in most cases. I can guarantee you majority of these, at least in western cultures are fueled from life long rejection, feeling physically inadequate via the sexless 16-44 year old male.

Legalize brothels and keep women on tighter leashes, like we previously had in society, and I bet chunks of that suicide rate would drop here.

However, as it stands women have the edge.
FuzzyCatPotato

Con

Rebuttals:

1P1: "Any woman can get a man 100% of the time. .... [A]ny girl, fat, ugly, tall, skinny, etc can always find herself a boyfriend or lay, at the drop of a hat. .... [I]f you are a man ... getting women will become extremely depressing and stressful for you ... when the women is of arguably equal appearance to yourself. .... Tons of men like ... obese women, where literally no girls ... like obese men. .... [I]t is ... implied ... that you have to ... essentially sell yourself to ... women. ... The girl ... takes the role of a king ... the male a jester. ... Yet Peggy down the street and become an Oxycontin and [D]orito[-]eating unemployed whale and still ... a man any night of the week."

1. [[Citation needed]]. My opponent asserts this over and over again, attempting to make it appear more true-- but provides no scientific studies on the ability of men and women to enter relationships. Thus, Pro is failing to fulfill Pro's BoP. Moreover, it can be reasonably asserted that for every woman who finds or was found by a male partner, there is one male partner who has successfully found or was found by a female partner due to the nature of the relationship. If my opponent wishes to prove that the female partner is usually the one who initiates said relationship, it's again their burden. Otherwise, there is no reason to assume a disparity between males and females in success.

2. My opponent assumes that sex is inherently good, without proof. Clearly this is not always the case, such as if a person obtains an STD such as HIV. In fact, women are especially at risk to HIV in the future because of the nature of HIV and sexual relations [1][2]. In addition, about a third of women will face sexual violence during their lifetimes, often leading to STD infection or mental health problems [3]. This is a result of the current power disparity in relationships between males and females [2].

---

1P2: “[W]omen typically make less money then men ... because ... women work in different jobs than men, thus the less pay. If a women ... are ... in the ... same job for something they can both handle well (clerical duties for example), the pay is the same. However, a man with ... no talents ... is ... screwed if he has no skills ... for earning a living. Whereas a women can head towards prostitution and earn a killing[.] .... [N]o matter what you look like there[']s some guy online ... who will gladly ... become your sugar daddy at the drop of a hat.”

1. [[Citation needed]] for the pay-gap assertion.

2. Actually, women make less money than men even when in the same jobs [4], especially as jobs get higher-paying and more managerial, stunting the growth of women CEOs and various similar jobs [4]. So "gender segregation" is clearly only a small part of the problem.

3. Further, part of the reason that "gender segregation" exists is because societal values propagated by people who support your mindset effectively stop women from either wanting to go into male-dominated jobs or societally-“male” jobs. By removing this mindset, the gender separation problem will be greatly reduced.

4. Wow. Prostitution. Really great case there. Because it’s not like McDonalds or Subways exist and pay for people with no specific skills to prepare food. My opponent effectively states that it’s perfectly fine if women are forced into prostitution by necessity. My opponent glorifies a profession that degrades the basic humanity of humans, pushes out the elderly after they aren’t beautiful enough, that has no applicable and transferrable job skills and so prevents other work, and that ultimately helps maintain the image of women as sex toys.

5. By “If a women ... are ... in the ... same job for something they can both handle well (clerical duties for example)” are you attempting to assert that women are not capable of or suited for nonclerical duties?

---

1P3: “[I]f … physical arguments takes place between a couple, where fists are being thrown, a male will always take more heat. … [I]f a woman assaults a man … it is seen much less serious than if the roles were reversed[.]”

1. [[Citation needed]] for the physical violence assertion.

2. Again look to my source [2] about sexual violence. Further, women are victimized about 4-3 times as often as men are in intimate violence [5], suggesting that even if men get blamed more often, it is correct that this is so. This violence probably stems from the power relationship in marriages, where women are more often seen as inferior and/or incapable than males [2].

---

1P4: “At the end of the day the only things we truly were put on this earth for is to survive and replicate. At the end of the day those two things are much more easily obtained from a lesser woman than a lesser male.”

1. What are you attempting to assert here? That because we evolved, it’s acceptable to objectify women as merely means to the end of producing babies? Because I cannot draw any other conclusions from this statement.

2. Evolution makes NO statements about what ought to be, only about what is. Just because we evolved, does not mean that we have to act like it.

---

1P5: Why is there a lot more whack job males than women. Rape, killings, etc. This is because of the rejection, hardships and added stresses a male has compared to a women that eventually causes their psych to snap. Just look at … [E]lliot [R]odgers … Yes the kid was messed up … but a girl … would of have a loving boyfriend it would have never come to that. Need data driven proof? Suicide rates are high for males in every country. 5-10x higher in most cases. I can guarantee you majority of these, at least in western cultures are fueled from life long rejection, feeling physically inadequate via the sexless 16-44 year old male.

1. [[Citation needed]].

2. Actually, male successful suicide rates in most Western countries are about 3 times as high as female successful suicide rates [6]. However, women attempt to commit suicide more often than males [7]. This disparity results from the higher use of immediately fatal methods by males (such as gun and bridge), which prevent any remorse or going back [7].

---

1P6:Legalize brothels and keep women on tighter leashes, like we previously had in society, and I bet chunks of that suicide rate would drop here.”

1. [[Citation needed]].

2. I’m actually for legalized prostitution, because it would improve the quality of the lives of those men and women trapped in it, rather than any social-control methods.

---

In summary, Pro has failed to meet the Burden of Proof, while I have proven repeatedly that women experience more problems in modern society than men.

---

References:

[1] https://www.womenshealth.gov...

[2] http://www.thelancet.com...(04)16098-4/fulltext

DDO handles the above HTML weird. Just click the link and paste the rest of the URL into the browsing bar.
[3] http://www.who.int...

[4] http://www.economist.com...

[5] http://www.victimsofcrime.org...

[6] http://www.theguardian.com...

[7] http://www.womenshealth.gov...

Debate Round No. 1
killerinstinct

Pro

killerinstinct forfeited this round.
FuzzyCatPotato

Con

My opponent posted their argument in the comments, which I will reproduce here.

Responses to my rebuttal of 1P1:
2P1A:
"your point was ridiculous, "for every woman who finds or was found by a male partner, there is one male partner who has successfully found or was found by a female partner". She was the chooser, you missed the whole point, you're just being a smart a$$."

1. [[Citation STILL needed]]. My opponent fails to prove that this point is true, except by asserting that it is so. For all we know, in the real world it may be that men 'choose' women more often than men 'choose' women, because my opponent has provided NO empirics.

2. I don't think I either missed your point or was cheeky, while I do believe that you fit both of the previous descriptions by using words such as "ridiculous" and "smart-a$$". Moreover, it cannot be discounted that a male-female relationship inherently requires participation by both a male and a female, and that this inherently leads to male participation in said relationships.

2P1B: "Sex is good. But twisting it around and finding a side effect isnt disproving anything I said."

1. [[Citation STILL needed]].

2. Actually, "finding a side effect" does disprove what you said, because I have proven that sex has negative effects, while my opponent have failed to prove that sex has ANY positive effects. Because my opponent provides no evidence, in this debate sex is still currently considered "bad". Regardless of my personal opinion, this is a result of my opponent failing to provide evidence.

3. My opponent fails to mention how sexual interaction in rape and domestic violence is "good".

2C1: I would also like to offer one more argument, namely that of masturbation. If sex is, indeed, good, then my opponent must provide a reason that having sex with oneself (ie, masturbation) is worse than having sex with another.

---

Response to my rebuttal of 1P2:
2P2: "If a woman was say a construction worker or brick layer, then yes I would say they are not equally suited. As a mans productivity and work load would be higher typically do to the strength gap. Thus he should earn more, as he is working more."

1. [[Citation STILL needed]] for the pay-gap assertion.

2. [[Citation needed]] for the assertion that men are stronger than women. I'm not disputing this -- merely that my opponent doesn't support it, and we can't accept it in this debate.

3. If, ONLY in specific jobs, were men paid more than women because they were able to contribute significantly more work, then that would be different. However, in the real world, in ALL jobs women face discrimination and a pay gap. My opponent thus does not meet the BoP of the resolution.

4. My opponent does NOT rebut my point that if women and men are in the same jobs, then the women WOULD get paid less.

5. My opponent does NOT rebut my point that rhetoric like that of my oppponent is the cause of these differences.

6. My opponent does NOT rebut my point that prostitution is terrible and that better alternatives exist.

---

Response to my rebuttal of 1P3:
2P3: "This is more opinion, however I would say a good chunk or so of those victimized women deserve what they get. There is no law for the mental abuse of the ongoing and relentless quote "crazy screaming bitch". I am aware all women are not like this, and I am aware men can be like this as well. Worth mentioning though."

1. My rebuttal of 1P3 is NOT opinion, unlike that of my opponent, seeing as I provided two sources to substantiate my claim that women are hurt far more often in intimate violence and sexual violence than men are. My opponent needs to prove that women who are hurt in these situations "deserve" said violence, and a reasonable basis for when a person "deserves" to be raped or to be harmed.

2. I can't rebut "There is no law for the mental abuse of the ongoing and relentless quote 'crazy screaming bitch' " simply because I don't understand what point my opponent is trying to make. However, I assume that my opponent is talking about how some women are annoying sometimes, which, of course, FULLY justifies violence, much like attacking your coworkers when they annoy you. Oh, wait.

---

Response to my rebuttal of 1P4:
2P4: "Again you missed the entire point. This entire article is regarding survival and replication. Your baby making machine point is irrelevant but I could use your twisted logic here "it can be reasonably asserted that for every woman who produces a baby with a male partner, there is one male partner who has successfully produced a baby with a female partner due to the nature of the relationship"."

1. Which "entire article"? I didn't provide an article here, and neither did my opponent.

2. That logic is pretty solid (sex is required for babies in non-technologically-assisted circumstances), but it doesn't justify having babies or forcing women to have babies WHATSOEVER.

3. My opponent does NOT rebut my point that the fact of evolution does NOT justify forced babymaking.

4. My opponent does NOT rebut my point that the theory of evolution does NOT justify ANYTHING.

---

Response to my rebuttal of 1P5:
None.

My opponent does NOT contend that I won 1P5, so extend the fact that women generally attempt suicide at a higher rate than men, which nullifies ANY impact from 1P6.

---

Response to my rebuttal of 1P6:
2P6: "I agree with you[.]"

1. Great.

2. However, we still disagree about the fact that you assert that keeping women "on tighter leashes" and legalizing brothels would make the suicide rate drop, which you STILL do not provide a citation for.
Debate Round No. 2
killerinstinct

Pro

killerinstinct forfeited this round.
FuzzyCatPotato

Con

My opponent did not post within the 3 day normal posting period OR the additional 1 day posting period that I allowed.

As such, I am regarding this round as a forfeit.

Extend my arguments and vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
1.5 hours remaining.
Posted by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
My opponent has an additional 15.5 hours to post their final argument. If no final argument is posted, I will assume forfeit.
Posted by killerinstinct 2 years ago
killerinstinct
1P1 1. your point was ridiculous, "for every woman who finds or was found by a male partner, there is one male partner who has successfully found or was found by a female partner". She was the chooser, you missed the whole point, you're just being a smart a$$.

1P1 2. Sex is good. But twisting it around and finding a side effect isnt disproving anything I said.

1P2 5. If a woman was say a construction worker or brick layer, then yes I would say they are not equally suited. As a mans productivity and work load would be higher typically do to the strength gap. Thus he should earn more, as he is working more.

1P3 2. This is more opinion, however I would say a good chunk or so of those victimized women deserve what they get. There is no law for the mental abuse of the ongoing and relentless quote "crazy screaming bitch". I am aware all women are not like this, and I am aware men can be like this as well. Worth mentioning though.

1P4 1. Again you missed the entire point. This entire article is regarding survival and replication. Your baby making machine point is irrelevant but I could use your twisted logic here "it can be reasonably asserted that for every woman who produces a baby with a male partner, there is one male partner who has successfully produced a baby with a female partner due to the nature of the relationship".

1P6. I agree with you

Summary: Being a smart a$$, redirecting things, and linking to some articles and statistics doesnt disprove much of anything I said.
Posted by kbub 2 years ago
kbub
Rape. Men can walk alone at night.
Posted by Charliemouse 2 years ago
Charliemouse
"Actually, women make less money than men even when in the same jobs"- it's not that we make less money we just spend too much and don't know how to handle getting paid. I would say more on other quotes but i'll wait for round two >:D
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Defro 2 years ago
Defro
killerinstinctFuzzyCatPotatoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF