The Instigator
yayawhatever
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
tvellalott
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

Women Topless

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,278 times Debate No: 12133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (7)

 

yayawhatever

Pro

Since breasts arent required for sex, they are not sexual organs. I believe women should not be required to cover their chests anymore than men are.
tvellalott

Con

I'd first like to thank my opponent for the opportunity to debate such an interesting topic.

"Since breasts aren't required for sex, they are not sexual organs..."
I'd like to start by saying that although the female breast is not physically required for sex, my opponent surely could not deny the fact that, at least in Western Cultures, the breast is thought of as a very sexual part of a women's body. Our culture is saturated with references to breasts as a sexual object. Thus, I would suggest that though they aren't 'reproductive organs' they are very much 'sexual organs'.

I have been doing a bit of research on the topic of female toplessness and the word that seems to keep popping up is 'Modesty'.
The dictionary defines being modest in this context as: "having or showing regard for the decencies of behavior, speech, dress, etc.; decent."
In other words, conforming to recognised standards of society.
In a society such as the United States of America, these standards must to some extent stem from the strong Christian presence (Approximately 78% of Americans are classified as some form of Christian.)
In cultures where Christianity and Islam were not present, the breast was not seen as a sexual object and was freely displayed. The correlation between the introduction of Christianity and Islam and the exposure of breasts in public being considered indecent is without question. I conclude that it is religion that created the taboo of exposed breasts. Since such a high percentile of the North American public is Christian and it is religions such as Christianity who created this taboo, I would assume that majority of Americans would see the public exposure of breasts as inappropriate. Being a Democratic country, this would explain why many American and Western jurisdictions consider the public display of women's breasts to be indecent exposure.

The fact is that there are very few cultures throughout modern history where the public display of reproductive organs is not seen as inappropriate. The female breast, though not a reproductive organ, is definitely seen as a sexual object in Western culture. Thus, the public display of the female breast is inappropriate.

I look forward to round 2
Debate Round No. 1
yayawhatever

Pro

I too wish to thank my opponent for participating in a debate of this interesting topic.

"Since breasts aren't required for sex, they are not sexual organs." This point must be conceded, for it is fact.

That said, allow me to respectfully aver that my opponent misses the point of this debate, and debate in general, by interposing existing and acquired social behaviors on an abstract issue. Using "commonly accepted," "modern cultures," and "Western culture" is a deflection and avoidance of the abstract nature of pure debate. Of course I agree that dropping a women-can-be-topless permission upon modern society would be massively complicated and unworkable. l am advocating the point that women should be permitted to be topless in general, in a "perfect world." It works in some societies, those that haven't been crippled by the repressive boot of Christian/Islamic rules and dictates. My opponent states his agreement with this point.

Therefore, by subtracting this "imperfect" aspect from this debate, and interposing the abstract "in a perfect world" standard - don't you agree women should be treated equally to men in as many ways as physically possible? Women are "disadvantaged," in some manner, however minimally, by being prohibited from behaving in as free a manner as men.

They should be treated equally to men - even in matters of permissible dress and outward appearance. In a perfect world, they would be.
tvellalott

Con

I thank my opponent for her swift reply.

My opening argument was merely to state the reasons why public female toplessness is thought of as indecent exposure and as my opponent stated, it is simply down to 'the repressive boot of Christian/Islamic rules and dictates.' A debate is defined as "a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers." I believe my opening argument fits that definition, thus I disagree with the statement that I missed the point of the debate and debating in general. To paraphrase my opening statement, public female toplessness is seen by the public as general as immodest and indecent. I advocate both modesty and decency.

"Since breasts aren't required for sex, they are not sexual organs." This point must be conceded, for it is fact."
Again I disagree. As I previously stated there is a massive difference between a 'reproductive organ' and a 'sexual organ'.
The breast is sexual, that is fact.
The breast is an organ, that is fact.
Thus, the breast is a 'sexual organ'.

As for my opponents hypothetical 'perfect' world where men and women are treated perfectly equally. I certainly agree that in such a place, women should be able to go topless just as freely as men. In such a world, morals, modesty and decency wouldn't be a factor. We do not live in such a world. Debating the merits of a perfect world is pointless as every persons idea of a perfect world would be different.

I believe in our 21st century Western society women are well on the way to being treated equally to men. I would even go so far as to state that women in some respects have more rights than men. In this perfect world would men and women have equal rights to custody of their children? The women nurtures the child in her womb, yes, but certainly men can be equally good or negligent parents to women. Yet this is certainly not the case in our society.

The fact of the matter is that there are reasons that men and women have different rights. For women and men to be perfectly equal, they would have to be physically and mentally identical. The strengths and weaknesses that are inherent in men (physical strength for example) and women (multi-tasking for example) wouldn't exist. I advocate equality between the sexes, but as long as they are different creatures, different considerations must be made.

I look forward to my opponents closing argument.
Debate Round No. 2
yayawhatever

Pro

yayawhatever forfeited this round.
tvellalott

Con

Vote Con!

:)
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Grizzman2012 4 years ago
Grizzman2012
I would have to disagree i don't think that the female breast is a sexual object they are just extra fat on a woman's chest. I think that females should have every right to walk on this earth topless if guys can do it so can women.
Posted by LiquidLiquid 6 years ago
LiquidLiquid
I agree with atheism. However, I do see breasts as a sexual organ, but I don't think it carries the same weight.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
I took con because I thought it would be a challenge.
Posted by Alex 6 years ago
Alex
Edit: "Attractive woman should be able to go topless"
Posted by Alex 6 years ago
Alex
What kind of person takes con on this?
Posted by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
I believe that women should be able to be topless and not abused for it, verbally or physically. But, as pro forfeited, my vote goes to con. =\
Posted by cjl 7 years ago
cjl
Go Pro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Zetsubou 7 years ago
Zetsubou
Too easy.
Posted by bluecarnival 7 years ago
bluecarnival
yes i like breasts
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
Yeah... they should be able to go topless.

This would give more freedom and liberty to everyone.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by lovelife 6 years ago
lovelife
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Vote Placed by LiquidLiquid 6 years ago
LiquidLiquid
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Vote Placed by ravenwaen 6 years ago
ravenwaen
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by cjl 6 years ago
cjl
yayawhatevertvellalottTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30