The Instigator
zp75903
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Jamais23
Con (against)
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Women are not always the victim

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 359 times Debate No: 94230
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
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zp75903

Pro

Over the course of many years, yes women have been treated wrongly simply for being women. But that is also true for men. Like for example, who was left to die on the titanic? Men. Because at the time, women's lives mattered more than men in that situation. Another example is let's say a women is in an abusive relationship with a man and he is abusing her. She decides to hit him in self defense. It is most likely she will be seen as brave. But if we switch it around and say the women is abusing the man (yes these kind of things do really happen), and the man decides to hit her in self defense, it is most likely he will be seen as the bad guy and will face charges because "he's a man and she's just a weak little women". Why are boys taught to never hit girls, but girls are never taught the same? Why is it in polite for a man to get on a bus before a women? I'm not saying that men have it worse than women, and I'm not saying women have it worse then men. I just disagree that women are the ones lacking all the rights and that women are the victims in every damn situation. Men can be raped, men can be abused, and men can be treated lesser, because they are men.
Jamais23

Con

BEWARE: THERE ARE SPOILERS OF SOME BOOK AND FILMS !!!!!!!

If you look closely in horror films, what do you notice? A lot of characters who end up alive in the end are females but it is not always a very comforting thought. If we pretend that those female survivors were real, it would suggest that those female survivors, after surviving a disturbing encounter with their almost assassins, would have to cope with the trauma they had had experienced. An example is Texas Chainsaw Massacre final girl Sally Hardesty. (SPOILER ALERT!!!) Sally had to see her older brother get sawed to death in front of her very eyes as they widened with fear and pure shock. That witness alone, if that were in real life, would result Sally losing her sanity and she would get frequent nightmares after seeing the gory encounter in person. Not only that because poor Sally was the survivor of the film. Her adrenaline racing, her body temperature dropping and feeling disgusted, she ran through the woods to seek help. Eventually, she was captured and was force to eat dinner with the killer but she ended up in a catatonic state. Finally after facing madness and lunacy, she escaped and ended up laughing hysterically in a pickup truck as she survived to tell the tale. Do you see what I am talking about? Almost all of the horror movies have a female survivor and Sally isn't just a prime example in which the female survivors end up being traumatized. Laurie from Halloween, Alice from Friday the Thirteenth, Sydney from Scream, etc.

If you read novels and old stories as well as watch psychological films, female characters almost often have to be the victim of mental illness. Have you read A Streetcar Named Desire? If you have, I am sure you know what happened to the main character at the end of the very traumatizing occurrence. You also picked up the hint she is mentally ill since the beginning of the book. Have you watched The Black Swan starring Natalie Portman? If you have, you'd know about what happened. If you haven't, look at her suffering from series of mental illnesses. Have you read And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie? Do you know why the female survivor did what she did (read the book if you don't know because I don't wanna reveal the great climax of the book)? Have you read The Odyssey? You might have noticed that the female characters are subjected to bondage and sexual slavery as well as portrayed with having lustful character. Have you read American Psycho? Who does he usually prey upon? Isn't it women?

Have you learned about what was expected of women long ago? In Ancient China, upper class women bound their feet as if to show wealth and beauty. Geishas are common in Japanese culture in which the makeup-clad women entertain their male customers. In Torah Bible and Quran, women were viewed as second-class citizens and were controlled and subjected to heavy housework. In Sharia law-ruled countries, female rape victims could face persecution and be stoned to death or receive a hundred lashes.

Tell me why very successful books almost always have a male character as the central character of the book? If Harry Potter was a girl, I doubt the series would be as successful as it is now. Same if the main characters of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were women or many of their characters are women, it wouldn't garner the same attention. It is very interesting why people don't really like watching women play sports. Lack of sex appeal is the primary answer (1).

Women are more likely to be abused as statistics suggest that 1 in 3 women are more likely to be abused in an intimate relationship (2). Another statistics suggest that 98% of the victims in sex trafficking are women and young girls (3).

This is a difficult debate because you almost said all of the points that many people would agree with.

SOURCES:

1) https://www.thenation.com...
2) http://www.domesticabuseshelter.org...
3) http://www.equalitynow.org...
Debate Round No. 1
zp75903

Pro

Well the movie and novel part you are very much correct. But I am more focused on real life rather than fictional occurrences, although I see your point and even if I did want to argue that topic, I would probably lose since you make many valid points. All the points you make are valid and correct including the statistics. But my point is women are not always the victim in every situation. I may have not made that 100% clear and that is my bad. You are very right about things that happened in the past and in that time women did have it worse. But now days women do have human rights as of men do too. My main reason for starting his debate is a lot of feminists who constantly accuse all men of being rapists and abusers, which I disagree, women are not always the victim. Yes I do agree with the statistics that women usually are the victims in rape, abusive relationships and sex trafficking. But that does not mean men are never the victim. As of 1998, 2.78 million men in the US had been victim of attempted or completed rape, and 1 out of every 10 rape victims are male. This shows not only women are victims of rape. Also two in five domestic violence victims are men. So this goes to show that women are not always victims and men can be too. I also previously said that I think women don't have it worse than men and men don't have it worse than women. By this I mean in general. I do think when it comes to sexual assault and domestic violence, that women have it worse, and statistics prove to show that. But I think men have it worse when it comes to being taken seriously when emotional and abused. Let's say a women falsely accused a man of raping her. Who are people going to most likely believe? The women or the man? I have personally had family issues with this. My friend physically abused her husband in front of my own eyes and broke his nose, while all he did was grab her by the arms because she was throwing punches. The next day she told everybody we knew that he was abusing her. Although she had no proof, people still believed her, and all she had to do was point her finger and play victim. So with my personal experience and many other stories I have heard, I have come to the conclusion that men have a tougher time being the victim because not many people might even take them seriously. Even if people did believe them, they might just tell them to "man up" or call them a weak because in today's society, if a women hits a man, it's not a huge deal. Plus men might be afraid to tell people due to not wanting to seem weak. Plus I also previously mentioned the smaller things like how girls aren't even taught not to hit boys but boys cannot hit a girl, and the rule of "ladies first". These small things do go to show men are not the only ones that are victims of specific rules of society. Like how women are expected to have perfect bodies and are usually fat shamed more than men, yet men are expected to basically throw everything away just for their girlfriend or spouse.

Sources:

https://www.rainn.org...
https://www.theguardian.com...
Jamais23

Con

You know, I have to admit your debate topic is a little too obvious because it's like saying "Not all Muslims are terrorists" which of course is true and trying to convince otherwise is very difficult because it would be hard to generalize. I don't think there's a single statistic that will show 100% of women are victims of a specific criminal activity. But I'll do my best to answer your topic that already has the answer written on it.

My fictional examples can happen in real life. The Railroad Killer, Angel Maturino Resendiz, was a brutal serial killer and disgusting person. He killed 15 people (1), though I highly doubt that number. He very likely had killed and murdered more. Out of all his victims, only one has known to have survived and she is Holly Pendleton. Holly was raped and beaten severely but fortunately, she survived and lived to tell the tale. But yes, Holly is among the MANY survivors of brutal murder.

What about gang rape? There's only one article I found about a man getting gang raped but almost all of the gang rape articles have women as the victim of a very monstrous, disordered attack. The infamous 2012 New Delhi gang rape proves that women can be vulnerable being left alone with a group of men than if a man is left with a group of men (2).

What about model exploitation? Since women are seen as more vulnerable, they become the targets of pedophiliac photographers. What about one of the most advocated one, equal payment? Jennifer Lawrence claimed that she and Amy Adams were paid less than their male co-stars in the 2013 film, American Hustler? (3)

SOURCES:

1) https://en.wikipedia.org...
2) https://en.wikipedia.org...
3) http://time.com...
Debate Round No. 2
zp75903

Pro

Well you're right basically about everything. Yes my topic was a pretty obvious but like I said, my reasoning behind it is the many people who always tell me that "all men rape" and "all women are victims". All of the points you just made are right and well I can't argue them. I guess in conclusion I think we both know women are not 100% victim all the time and what I said about women not having it worse than men (in cases of sexual assault and abuse), may have been a bit wrong and I think that you clearly proved that to me. Well I have no argument.
Jamais23

Con

Well those people that say "All men rape" probably will agree with someone that says "All Muslims are terrorists". However when it comes to sexual abuse and exploitation, women are more likely victims but it doesn't mean they are the sole victims. Thanks for the debate opportunity and I wish you luck on the outcome and your future debates!
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by FreddyFazbearAndFriends 9 months ago
FreddyFazbearAndFriends
So, the first argument for the opposition is that, usually a woman survives in horror movies and films, and therefore women are victims...
Just saying, but I consider being violently shredded apart by a chainsaw exponentially worse than emotional trauma. It's possible I'd try to kill myself, but I'd do it with a gun and the pain would still be less than a bloody chainsaw.
Posted by HeavenlyPanda 9 months ago
HeavenlyPanda
I think we are all aware that woman are not always the victims. But for the greater part of the our human history, women have been the victims. Yes it's not fair that men aren't allowed to hit women without repercussions but these things will happen when society tried to change its views. Things will be unfair but at least it hasn't become a war.
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