The Instigator
Iamright58
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Luharis
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Women should be allowed to be topless in pools and beaches.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Luharis
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 785 times Debate No: 73256
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Iamright58

Pro

Any women should be allowed to choose to not wear a bra and expose her breasts, whether it is in a public pool or beach. Boobs are not a reproductive organ and so they are not sexually explicit. There should be no shame in showing breasts, in fact women would feel better about themselves and have more self-esteem with their bodies.
Luharis

Con

While it is important to consider the rights of both genders equally, it should be understood that anatomically, men and women are different . It is merely a fact of life to understand these differences, not sexist. Furthermore, pools and beaches are public places, where society as a whole may commute to and enjoy, it would be unacceptable to allow little children, and pre-pubescent teens to see a woman's breasts. This would also be detrimental to a woman's self esteem, as they would see other who have much bigger breasts, and would feel ashamed of themselves, through no fault of their own. Additionally, to do so would undermine a parent's ability to raise their kids as they see fit, and force them to give the "talk" much earlier than they would prefer. While yes, gender equality is important in today's society, it must also be within reason of what could be considered acceptable to show to children. What the Instigator has failed to mention in his opening statement, or that title of the debate, is that, there will be limits. What the Instigator is suggesting, would be unacceptable to family life.
Debate Round No. 1
Iamright58

Pro

The fact that pools and beaches are public means that people should be allowed to visit them without strict rules like in private areas. Any women that see's other women's breasts that are bigger then hers will have to accept the fact that not everyone is built the same, being ashamed is a personal problem. Little children that have not been through puberty will not be negatively affected in anyway by exposure to women breasts. As the for the teens who are going through puberty, they will develop a maturity about the subject, and so they will understand by talking with their parents, some unanswered questions. The idea of hiding breasts is more detrimental to women as it shows there fear of being harassed, while by exposing them, they will show pride and maturity. Today, we see a lot of women wearing loose blouses and bikini tops which expose their cleavage, this is not very different from exposing the full boobs, since some bikini tops are made low quality and can even expose the nipples when submerged under water. Models of clothing today are more opened to women, like short skirts and tight jeans. If those so called 'explicit' clothes are allowed, then exposing breasts should be too.
Luharis

Con

You make a good point, " Any women that see's other women's breasts that are bigger then hers will have to accept the fact that not everyone is built the same". What you'rs saying is, not everyone is built the same, and i completely agree. From this perspective we can understand that if two woman are different, than wouldn't be logical to conclude a man and a woman are different, and therefore, should be treated differently. With a basic understanding of anatomy, it is found that the breast are in fact sexual in purpose, as they are considered vital in the reproductive process. They do not need to be directly involved with the actual act of sex, but they play a role in raising of babies and infants, with without which, many babies would die. Also, we must not degrade the values and standards of society further just because there is already an ongoing decline. "If those so called 'explicit' clothes are allowed, then exposing breasts should be too." Just for the same reason we shouldn't legalize public nudity because we are already allowed to leave our arms uncovered, we should't legalize exposed breasts because people can wear tight jeans.
Debate Round No. 2
Iamright58

Pro

Breasts can indeed be arousing to see for men but they remain an non-reproductive organ, which means it is not sexually explicit. Furthermore, if we accept today's clothes it means we almost accept nudity, since a lot of the body is exposed. If we don't let women show there breasts then we shouldn't let them show their legs too, even there necks. Anyhow, breasts remain different from other body parts, they are essential for a baby's development but they don't have a sexual purpose except maybe for getting men excited before sexual intercourse. Furthermore, I would like to know , what consequences there would be, if women exposed there breasts?
Luharis

Con

" but they don't have a sexual purpose except maybe for getting men excited before sexual intercourse". Really, you are asking for consequences? If they don't have a purpose, except for getting men excited about sex, this will lead to an increase of rape and sexual assault. While yes in a perfect world, this would be absolutely o.k., we must understand that the world we live in, is not. For example we still have problems in regard to woman's rights including: allowing rapist's to sue for custody of children, creating pay inequalities because of a gender bias, and finally, we still unfortunately live in a society where a woman is expected to lean on a man for support.

Society in it's current form is just not ready for such a drastic change, and to do so would spark violence against, and would be a counter-productive in the long run. For example, let's say hypothetically, a law that allows woman to go topless passes. Woman all over the country would celebrate and show of their newly won rights. The backlash would be severe though, in people who are conservative leaning, and almost any religious organization would push for it's repeal. Not only this, bu the woman themselves are in danger of violence, because unfortunately, in the United States, obtaining a weapon is incredibly easy, to those who should not have one, and such an upset of current social norms, would almost immediately spark a backlash from those who disagree. While yes,in a perfect world, Woman would have perfectly equal rights, we do not live in a perfect world, and to do such a drastic move would be disastrous.

Sources:
http://distractify.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Iamright58

Pro

Saying that we live in a non-perfect world is a completely different problem. You said that getting a weapon in the U.S is easy, but this is not related anyhow to this question. Religious organisations will have to deal with the fact that everyone thinks differently and since there are already bikinis that show part of the breasts, and they don't mind it, they should not mind women being completely topless. How can this be related to violence? How can it lead to assault and rape? You can't say that it will happen for sure. We see rapes happen all the time whether women are dressed modestly or in bikini. Since more and more women will be topless, criminals will be scared to assault because of their large number. Forbidding women to expose their breasts is more problematic since it will give them the idea that they are weak. They should have the right to do it.
Luharis

Con

You appear to be missing the point of the debate, "Women should be allowed to be topless in pools and beaches." The debate is not called, "Women should be allowed to be topless in pools and beaches in an ideal society". When we debate issues that can cause division and anger in society, we must also understand that society will push back, and therefore, it is perfectly logical to consider other issues that are tied to the topic. For example, studies have shown a direct link with how women dress, to how they are treated, and their likelihood of being raped. Now, if women were to go topless altogether, it would create a potentially dangerous scenario. We live in a society that at times, views women as objects, and by removing this dress barrier, it WILL cause negative repercussions, against those who will try to bravely use their new rights.

"Religious organisations will have to deal with the fact that everyone thinks differently and since there are already bikinis that show part of the breasts, and they don't mind it, they should not mind women being completely topless." To my understanding, we legalized abortion in the entire country, legalized stem cell research in the entire country, and legalized gay marriage in majority of the country. Yet for some reason, a majority of religious groups, and quite a few politicians are firmly opposed to one, if not all of those ideas despite the fact they are legalized. It is exceedingly idealistic to assume that church groups, who already feel the country is losing it's moral's, to drop any opposition to it.

"Since more and more women will be topless, criminals will be scared to assault because of their large number." I'm sorry, but this is just bad logic. Under this understanding, it would be okay to leave your keys in the car whenever you leave, because if everyone did it, the thieves would be afraid to steal your car. Or, you could say, following the same logic, if we legalize the death penalty (which we did), people would be afraid to murder (yet the rate of murder has not decreased). By having more potential victims present, it would create a boom of assault against women,

"You said that getting a weapon in the U.S is easy, but this is not related anyhow to this question." Unfortunately, this is related to the question. Almost all of the firearms in the United states, owned by civilians, are owned by people with anger issues, and more often than not, a very conservative mindset. These are people we not only have a gun, put frequently have fights, and also, often carry concealed weapons. Just imagine what would happen if a middle aged angry man with a gun, saw a topless woman. The toplessness causes a dehumanization process to occur, in which he would actually consider her as less of a human. The unfortunate outcome of this event would be either this woman is raped, killed, or raped then killed.

Saying Women should be allowed to be topless in pools and beaches, is like saying, People should run around in Texas, shouting trucks are evil, the NRA is bad, Obama is amazing, gay rights are good, and the state of Texas is stupid*. Just because people can do this, does not mean they should do this. Both these scenarios would not end well.

* I do not mean to insult the state of Texas, i apologize if anyone finds that offensive

Sources:
http://vpva.rutgers.edu...
http://wellness.gwinnettmedicalcenter.org...
http://www.disastercenter.com...
Debate Round No. 4
Iamright58

Pro

We all agree that society is not perfect, but for it to become better we need to stop adding law's that are against human rights. More particularly in this case, women's rights. A lot of women already wish to expose their breasts because they don't like hiding them, it makes them feel weak.
Now for the weapon issue, I wish to not elaborate more since it is far off the main question.
Legalizing abortion will of course be denied by some people but we should not punish a majority just because of a minority. Just because a few rapists will commit crimes we can't force all women to hide their breasts.
I am still not clear on how this law would have bad consequences. You said : 'We live in a society that at times, views women as objects, and by removing this dress barrier, it WILL cause negative repercussions, against those who will try to bravely use their new rights.' I understand that women can be viewed from different angles but I still do not understand what could be so bad about it.
Luharis

Con

I feel like i must explain the phrase you quoted, "We live in a society that at times, views women as objects, and by removing this dress barrier, it WILL cause negative repercussions, against those who will try to bravely use their new rights" What I was trying to say was, that with violence against woman, we have a potentially dangerous situation, in which, if we were to alter society too quickly, we would run into dangers of social backlash. Take for instance the civil rights movement, it took place through the 50's and 60's, and it achieved almost all of it's goals, but at a cost. Violence. When society was suddenly forced to grant new rights, that they didn't necessarily agree with, violence broke out against those who sough to secure fundamental rights. The same goes for our debate. History will repeat itself, it always does. Just imagine for example, that we legalized toplessness in pools and beaches, what would happen? Well, historically, when new rights were suddenly given, violence has always broken out, and it has always ended sadly*. What you aim to advance, would be far to much of change, in far too little of a time. In fact, society would react to this change with increased opposition, due to the speed of implementation. What I feel you have neglected in your arguments is, society plays a massive role in social issues, whether we like it or not.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to debate with me.

*Some of the violence that has historically followed social change includes, just to name a few: shootings, bombings, assault, imprisonment, fines, and beatings
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by brented 1 year ago
brented
Go topless, own it! Do it! But don't get mad when you lose the respect that you once had. Men will want to touch you and fondle you all the time. Yes, most men like to touch them. You have to understand that boobs are sexually arousing to most men. It's part of our DNA. You will likely encounter men wanting to see more of you and all kinds of weirdos asking you out on a "date". But if that is what you want, then go for it. In fact I challenge as many women as possible to try it and see what the result will be.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 1 year ago
FuzzyCatPotato
Iamright58LuharisTied
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