The Instigator
woodjm79
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
Ithacus
Con (against)
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Women should not allowed to hold offices of power due to PMS

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,667 times Debate No: 42318
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
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woodjm79

Pro

Stay with me on this for a minute!
I have met very few women that do not use their female cycle to blame their negative actions on. Mood swings, crazy thoughts, and behaviour that is detrimental to their own personal lives or relationships?
my entire point is 2 fold. either women are unfit for a few days a month to make decisions or they are not? why should I be tried by a woman judge who suffers from sever pmdd and is hating men the day of my trial? women in office making decisions for the people of the country having a mood swing ... so either pms and pmdd is real or women just use it as an excuse to be crazy for a few days? cannot be both...
I think most men, if really honest would tell you that "most " women that they know or have been in a relationship with will tell you that for a few days " she is crazy"
why should we allow people who go crazy for a few days have any power at all?
then again maybe women are just using this as an excuse to behave negatively without consequences
Ithacus

Con

PMS: premenstrual syndrome: any of a complex of symptoms (including emotional tension and fluid retention) experienced by some women in the days immediately before menstruation.

PMDD: premenstrual dysphoric disorder: a condition characterized by intense emotional and physical symptoms experienced by some women between ovulation and menstruation.

sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.


There are many myths and misunderstandings surrounding PMS. It is unfortunate when these unfounded attacks on women's sanity and rationality enable sexist modes of thought and behavior towards women. I will make three arguments in this debate.

1. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD do not exist.

2. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD, even if they existed, would not make them incapable of leadership and self-control.

3. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power regardless of any syndromes or disorders they may have, so long as they are appropriately treated.

If the audience is swayed by any one of them, I have successfully defended my position. I look forward to fighting tooth and nail against the staggering discrimination proposed by my opponent. I shall dedicate Round 1 to my first argument.



1. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD do not exist.


A) There is no experimental proof that PMS and PMDD exist

PMS and PMDD do not exist in any biological sense: repeated studies have found no empirical correlation whatsoever between mood swings and hormonal and physiological changes accompanying phases of ovulation and menstruation, meaning the symptoms are either psychosomatic or due to alternative causes unrelated to the menstrual cycle. A recent meta-analysis in 2012 confirms this resoundingly.

There is no clear link between women’s negative moods and the pre-menstrual phase of their cycles, according to a review of research led by University of Toronto experts. (2012) Source:http://www.news.utoronto.ca...

This is a very typical example of the medical community's description of PMS:

About 80% of women experience some premenstrual symptoms. The incidence of true PMS has often been overestimated by including all women who experience any physical or emotional symptoms prior to menstruation. It is estimated that clinically significant PMS (which is moderate to severe in intensity and affects a woman's functioning) occurs in 20% to 30% of women. About 2% to 6% of women are believed to have the more severe variant known as PMDD.

PMS remains an enigma because of the wide-ranging symptoms and the difficulty in making a firm diagnosis. Several theories have been advanced to explain the cause of PMS. None of these theories have been proven, and specific treatment for PMS still largely lacks a solid scientific basis. (2013) Source: http://www.medicinenet.com...


What physician in their right mind would diagnose someone with a mental disorder that has no proven causes, lacks a solid scientific basis and does not appear to be associated with any personality types? The whole premise of PMS is that the symptoms are caused by the menstrual cycle. But if the causes are unproven, the symptoms cannot be traced back to a menstrual-cycle-related disorder such as PMS or PMDD. Correlation does not imply causation – only experiment can prove causation, and the absence of experimental evidence is overwhelming.



B) PMS and PMDD are culturally fabricated


There are many reasons why many women may report psychosomatic symptoms incorrectly termed an actual syndrome such as PMS or PMDD – sometimes science is stranger than science fiction.

Culture-bound syndromes can vary wildly, and some of them are really weird to outsiders. Parts of West and Central Africa have epidemics of men who believe that their penises have been stolen. […] Other examples include the dhat syndrome in India, the Native American “ghost sickness” and the Korean “fire illness.” (2013) Source: http://www.slate.com...

Because there is no biological evidence that PMS and PMDD exist, the logical conclusion is that they are culturally fabricated.

"PMS and PMDD are both 'culture-bound' syndromes," says Joan Chrisler, PhD, a psychology professor at Connecticut College and president of the Society for Menstrual Cycle Research. "There is no evidence [that PMDD exists], though people have to find such evidence," says Paula Caplan, PhD. Source: http://www.apa.org...


B
) PMDD is actually MDD

This author is correct to point out that PMDD just sounds like a way to make a variety of emotional and physical health issues woman-specific.

PMDD is listed in the DSM-IV as a "depressive disorder not otherwise specified." The symptoms of PMDD are remarkably similar to those of Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). The difference between PMDD and MDD is that PMDD symptoms are cyclical, subsiding with onset of menses. The DSM-IV also notes that some mood disorders, somatoform disorders, personality disorders and general medical conditions, such as thyroid and other endocrine disorders, migraine, anemia or various infections can be exacerbated during the premenstrual phase. Source: http://www.apa.org...

Furthermore, feminist psychologist Paula Caplan

cites research by Sheryle Gallant and colleagues "that demonstrates without question that the category of PMDD is neither valid nor helpful to women." The study (Psychosomatic Medicine, 1992) asked women – a group that said they had severe symptoms and a group with none – to keep a checklist of PMDD symptoms. In the end, the checklist responses failed to differentiate the two groups. Perhaps most interesting, some men were asked to participate in the study and their checklist results didn't differ from the women's. Caplan says that's "dramatic proof" that classifying PMDD as mental disorder is "unjustified."

Thus, the 3–9% of women who experience such severe PMDD that the disorder interferes with their life are most likely suffering from MDD, since plenty of research appears to indicate quite clearly that there is nothing cyclical or woman-specific about PMDD, or even any experimental evidence to suggest that it exists at all.


C) PMS and PMDD are the modern equivalent of "hysteria"

"if pms and pmdd isnt real and women dont go a little nutty then we men have been made victom of the largest con of all time.. cant be both"

Excuse me? We men have been the victims of the largest con of all time? Men? You can't possibly be serious! There is a solid scientific basis to argue that hundreds of millions of women around the world needlessly suffer on a monthly basis because some misogynistic douches invented a culture-bound a few thousand years ago to have an excuse for discriminating against women, and sexist physicians in the 1930s reinforced these damaging stereotypes and prejudices. Sure, there are negative repercussions for both genders, but the idea that women are "conning" men is ludicrous and victim-blaming at its blindest.

Interestingly, PMS / PMDD is by no means history's first con of women. It began with the misogynistic ancient Greeks, who claimed women were irrational, stupid and suffered severe mood swings due to their uterus – this was actually considered a disease in the Western world for thousands of years, and labeled "hysteria" after the Greek "hustera" (uterus). We now know that hysteria has nothing to do with the womb, that it can be experienced by both sexes, and that women were oppressed for millennia in part because physicians diagnosed them with a phony disorder based on culturally induced symptoms. Sound familiar?


Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD do not exist.
Debate Round No. 1
woodjm79

Pro

First I would like to say it is a pleasure to debate you. You have addressed me with character, class and respect and I will return the same courtesy. I disagree with you but I know this will be a treat to debate.

Ladies and Gents,
My opponent argues my initial idea with 3 points. All three seem on the surface as legitimate reasonable arguments " but lets dig a little deeper ..scratch past the surface and examine his 3 points with logic and reason".
I would also like to make the point that I could go to Google and control/ copy paragraphs from a multitude of sites that have respect in the medical community backing up my arguments to come.. but that is boring and you all know how to Google.. rather I will give my own ideas and thoughts on this matter"
I will start with his first point and go from there".

***1. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD do not exist.
A) There is no experimental proof that PMS and PMDD exist

PMS and PMDD do not exist in any biological sense: repeated studies have found no empirical correlation whatsoever between mood swings and hormonal and physiological changes accompanying phases of ovulation and menstruation, meaning the symptoms are either psychosomatic or due to alternative causes unrelated to the menstrual cycle. A recent Meta-analysis in 2012 confirms this resoundingly.
There is no clear link between women"s negative moods and the pre-menstrual phase of their cycles, according to a review of research led by University of Toronto experts. (2012)

and

B) PMS and PMDD are culturally fabricated****

My opponent would like you all to believe that PMS and PMDD does not exist" in fact he states that it does not exist"
But he does not explain all the doctors and mental health professionals that diagnose it every day? Are these doctors performing malpractice? Insurance fraud? Why on earth would all these medical professionals risk their careers mis diagnosing their patients with a disorder that does not even exist? And what about the medicines that are sold every day at walmart and pharmacies around the world? Are they committing fraud by selling a product to relive symptoms that don't exist" don't even get me started on the liability these retailers would receive for selling medicine that women put in there bodies that they don't need!

My opponent stated that PMS remains an enigma" AN ENIGMA" something all you ladies just make up in your heads" but you are not crazy.. and you should not be discriminated against ever for making up the following symptoms for 1 to 10 days a month"

Tension or anxiety
Depressed mood
Crying spells
Mood swings and irritability or anger
Appetite changes and food cravings
Trouble falling asleep (insomnia)
Social withdrawal
Poor concentration
My opponent says that up to 85% of you ladies just make these symptoms up in your heads and they do not really exist "
Now I will take his thought process a layer further! People that once a month for 1-10 days make up symptoms in their head and act on them are normal and sane?
Let me list some symptoms for you

Hostility or suspiciousness
Inability to cry or express joy
Inappropriate laughter or crying
Depression
Oversleeping or insomnia
Odd or irrational statements
Forgetful; unable to concentrate
Delusions
these are most of the symptoms for schizophrenia".
I argue that making up fake symptoms in your head once a month for 1-10 days and acting on these symptoms in a negative way effecting your life and relationships with loved ones is delusional ". They are not just made up in your head caused possibly by culture-bound syndromes

My opponent also argues the following:
****What physician in their right mind would diagnose someone with a mental disorder that has no prove causes, lacks a solid scientific basis and does not appear to be associated with any personality types? The whole premise of PMS is that the symptoms are caused by the menstrual cycle. But if the causes are unproven, the symptoms cannot be traced back to a menstrual-cycle-related disorder such as PMS or PMDD. Correlation does not imply causation " only experiment can prove causation, and the absence of experimental evidence is overwhelming.***

So following his logic if it cannot be tested for and diagnosed with scientific proof then it does not exist"

Most mental disorders cannot be tested for .. therefore schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, personality disorder, sociopaths ..and many more are all just made up disorders" hey we can't test for them so they like PMS and PMDD are not real". just going down the same rabbit hole my counter part wishes you to go down"

My opponent states: C) PMS and PMDD are the modern equivalent of "hysteria"
Ladies you are just victims of society and its not your fault you make up fake symptoms and act on them negatively effecting your entire lives"

His second point is this
***2. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD, even if they existed, would not make them incapable of leadership and self-control.***

I STRONGLY DISAGREE with my opponent ".I say PMS and PMDD is real. It is real and it has many of the same symptoms of schizophrenia" Many men and children and loved ones have felt the emotional impact of PMS and PMDD"
Lets put this in real life shall we? I hire a lawyer to protect me " she is a week way from menstruation and suffers from PMS or PMDD" will she give me the same quality of service with symptoms similar and in some cases exactly like schizophrenia? would you hire a schizophrenic to be your lawyer? I would not " but my opponent says if you don't you are discriminating" shame on you "
Another example; what if the judge over seeing your case is suffering from PMS of PMDD" she is unstable emotionally and passes judgment on you based on emotions that she is having and symptoms that dare I repeat again ".peace officers, public officials, public servants, even your boss" is it fair that we men OR women be forced to suffer the effects and negative behavior of these women in these positions?? I sure do not think that it is fair if I work very hard and apply my whole life in a career and it taken away because my female boss or HR woman is PMSing"

Do I think women are less then me or men? of course not"
Do I think that PMS or PMDD is the biggest CON ever perpetrated on men" Of course not, that statement was made to exaggerate my very point.. PMS/PMDD is REAL and the symptoms are real and the negative trickle down from women in positions of power are unfair at best to the innocent men and women in their wake.
Ithacus

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for his generous words, this will indeed be an interesting debate and I appreciate the courtesy! May the best arguments win :)

Firstly, I will address some of my opponent's counter-arguments; then I will proceed with the second and third defenses of my position.


My opponent stated that PMS remains an enigma" AN ENIGMA" something all you ladies just make up in your heads" but you are not crazy.. and you should not be discriminated against ever for making up the following symptoms for 1 to 10 days a month"

My opponent commits a fallacy: just because a mental illness does not exist in any biological sense, does not mean it cannot exist in a psychological sense. This is the definition of a culture-bound syndrome: an illness invented by and restricted to a particular culture, in this case Western culture. I cited several examples. You can certainly "diagnose" someone with dhat syndrome or Latin American fright sickness, but it would be simply incorrect to actually assume that the menstrual cycle is the cause of these symptoms or that they exist biologically.

Symptoms may be a) psychosomatic, b) caused by other non-disease-related catalysts, such as a stressful day, or c) evidence of a different syndrome/disorder entirely, such as MDD. All of these options may lead to a diagnosis; all of these options lead to plenty of symptoms; and none of these options are any proof whatsoever that PMS
actually exists, a claim which the 2012 study obviously refuted.

Now, since it is our own culture which is perpetuating the PMS myth, and because of PMDD's parallels with the actually existing MDD, it should not be surprising that there is still debate in the Western scientific community over whether or not the syndrome is real or culture-bound. I have satisfied the burden of proof to provide as much evidence as possible that it is not real and that it is culture-bound, particularly the 2012 study that most researchers now quote as the final word on PMS; I have also shown that there is no evidence for PMS being biologically real, only evidence to contradict that view. Before he can question me, my opponent ought to provide evidence to support the idea that PMS is biological.


these are most of the symptoms for schizophrenia

I don't really see how schizophrenia is relevant to this discussion. It's rather offensive to both groups to compare a mental illness characterized by delusions and auditory hallucinations to a culture-bound syndrome consisting largely of enhanced irritability and anxiety. Schizophrenia exists, as opposed to PMS, for so many reasons it's hard to compress them in one place, but I'll try.

Successful pharmacological treatments [for schizophrenia] exist. The risk factors for schizophrenia are most prominently genetic. Brain-imaging techniques have opened up the schizophrenic brain for direct inquiries, in terms of structure, neurochemistry, and function. New hypotheses of pathophysiology do not overlook dopamine as playing a major role, but do emphasize the participation of integrative neural systems in the expression of the illness and of the limbic system in generating symptoms. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

There is plenty of proof to show that schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and antisocial personality disorder ("sociopathy" and "psychopathy" are not scientific terms) are biological, to the extent that an expert can look at a human brain image and tell you which illness the brain is suffering from. The whole point of my argument was to provide evidence that there is no biological evidence for the existence of PMS or the cyclical nature of PMDD, which would just make PMDD woman-specific MDD.


I say PMS and PMDD is real. It is real and it has many of the same symptoms of schizophrenia" [...] will she give me the same quality of service with symptoms similar and in some cases exactly like schizophrenia?

PMS and PMDD have nothing even vaguely resembling the symptoms of schizophrenia! Schizophrenia is "a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation". This is so far beyond "emotional tension" I don't even know where to begin. It is characterized by auditory hallucinations because it is a disease of the brain. PMS has no proven biological causes and effects, least of all brain damage.


2. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD, even if they existed, would not make them incapable of leadership and self-control.

I sure do not think that it is fair if I work very hard and apply my whole life in a career and it taken away because my female boss or HR woman is PMSing"

How does emotional tension translate to hatred of men or discrimination against them? In the words of Gloria Steinem, "If women are supposed to be less rational and more emotional at the beginning of our menstrual cycle when the female hormone is at its lowest level, then why isn't it logical to say that, in those few days, women behave the most like the way men behave all month long?" Show me the scientific evidence that low levels of female hormone lead to negative behavior. Spoiler alert: there is none. Your fears are unfounded, and therefore symptoms of prejudice.


3. Women should be allowed to hold offices of power regardless of any syndromes or disorders they may have, so long as they are appropriately treated.

PMS and PMDD are pretty mild as far as emotional issues in the psychiatric handbook go. Plenty of men and women suffer from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, various anxiety disorders, and other mental and physical illnesses with serious impacts on emotional health. However, so long as these disorders and syndromes are appropriately medically treated, these people can be surgeons, pilots, CEOs, senators, judges and much more, just like intelligent and capable regular people.

would you hire a schizophrenic to be your lawyer? I would not " but my opponent says if you don't you are discriminating" shame on you "

I'm not saying that – American law is saying that :)

Mental illness can be a disabling condition, and when it qualifies as such, firing someone based on a mental illness violates the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. The ADA prohibits discrimination against applicants and employees who have had, are regarded as having or who actually have, an impairment that limits at least one of life's major activities. The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the agency with ADA enforcement authority, says that mental illness encompasses a number of conditions, among which are obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, schizophrenia and depression. Source: http://everydaylife.globalpost.com...

Yes, there are schizophrenic lawyers – who are brilliant and very, very good at their job! Because they get treatment, because their disease is biologically real and can be treated. And yes, it is discrimination to refuse to work with someone due to a mental illness they may have, as well as diseases such as AIDS. Which only goes to prove my point – even if PMS and PMDD were as severe as schizophrenia, it would be immoral discrimination to prevent them from holding offices of power – especially since 20% of women don't have PMS and up to 98% of women don't have PMDD. This shows that my opponent discriminates not against the so-called illness, but against the female demographic as a whole.




Women should be allowed to hold offices of power because PMS and PMDD, even if they existed, would not make them incapable of leadership and self-control.

Women should be allowed to hold offices of power regardless of any syndromes or disorders they may have, so long as they are appropriately treated.

Thank you :)

Debate Round No. 2
woodjm79

Pro

Again I have been met with class. I am excited to make my final argument with such a fair and respectful opponent.
He is wrong however, and he has proved it for me.

My opponent has made a very reasonable "sounding" argument. My opponent has fallen victim to making my argument for me.
For the sake of argument let"s follow my opponent"s theory. ..His theory that PMS/PMDD symptoms are a) psychosomatic b) caused by other non-disease-related catalysts, such as a stressful day, or c) evidence of a different syndrome/disorder entirely, such as MDD. All of these options may lead to a diagnosis; all of these options lead to plenty of symptoms; and none of these options are any proof whatsoever that PMS actually exists, a claim which the 2012 study obviously refuted.

Let"s expect these as truths! This theory that my opponent has proven with his facts shows that PMS/PMDD is NOT in any way biological. It IS a metal problem. I will go as far to say a metal disorder effecting up to 80% of women in the western world. Let"s stick to just women in the western world for the rest of my argument since my opponent has made it clear they are the only women that "suffer" from this disorder. My opponent states...
*it is our own culture which is perpetuating the PMS myth*
I dismiss the notion that PMS/PMDD is biological and agree with my opponent that PMS/ PMDD is totally a mental disorder in western women.
This is exactly why women in the western world that are diagnosed with the mental disorder PMS/PMDD should NOT be allowed position in power. Matter of fact NO person with debilitating mental disorders should be allowed to hold offices of power.
Below is a video from a health website that helps empower women to address the negative effects that PMS/PMDD have on their relationships...
http://on.aol.ca...

In short PMS/PMDD may not ever be able to be proved by science biologically. The symptoms however are very real. Not only real but the effects on so many women"s lives have been life altering. PMS/PMDD affects social relationships negatively every day. A simple google search reveals page after page of sites offering studies and help.

Schizophrenia is very relevant to this discussion as well as all mental disorders that effect the diagnosed as well as all the people the diagnosed comes in contact with every day.
My opponent has proved for me that PMS/PMDD is a mental problem in western women. It is his opinion on why it is prevalent in western women and I have no reason to doubt it...

Now that my opponent has proved PMS/PMDD is a mental problem with a lot of un explained mystery about it, let us move on to the real point!
ALL people... men and women with metal disorders should not be allowed positions of power where about their disorder can affect others lives. My opponent"s ONLY real argument is:
***I'm not saying that " American law is saying that :)***

Let me give you a few examples of some real American "LAWS"

1. Tennessee has made it a crime to share your Netflix password, or any other password to, uh, Internet "entertainment" sites

2. No Simulated Bestiality in a Bar " Oklahoma
Oklahoma has a fairly standard law covering indecency in a bar. Basically, it holds the bar owner liable if his customers get too rowdy and start finger-banging on the dance floor. But for some insane reason, they felt the need to add bestiality to the list, which I"m guessing happened because some state senator saw some drunken college frat bro jokingly try to bang the mechanical bull at a bar while all his friends whooped it up, and decided, "No more!" After all, mechanical bulls are people too.

3. No Keeping Pregnant Pigs in Cages " Florida
This one gets extra points because it"s not just a law; it"s actually in the state Constitution. Florida, amirite? Yes, the Florida state Constitution has an amendment "limiting cruel and inhumane confinement of pigs during pregnancy." Sure, you"ve got dudes roaming around eating bath salts and gnawing off faces, but there are pregnant pigs that don"t have enough room to really luxuriate. You can see why this would be important. Then again, it"s Florida, so some poor idiot in the state legislature probably felt guilty after knocking up one of his pigs and decided to make sure she"d at least get to raise their bastard in comfort. These are Southern gentlemen after all.

4. New Mexico it is illegal for idiots to vote...
According to the New Mexico state Constitution, everyone of legal age is entitled to vote accept for the usual riff-raff, like felons. But New Mexico decided to add a little more integrity to their elections by also disenfranchising insane people and idiots. Look, there"s an obvious joke here to be made about the Tea Party, but I"m above such things. I just want to know who decides who"s an idiot. Would Corky from Life Goes On be allowed to vote? George W. Bush? I mean, who makes this decision?

5. No Owning Six or More Dildos " Texas
You knew Texas would probably show up here, and naturally, it"s about dildos. I think the rationale here was that anyone owning that many dildos is a dildo salesman or something, which is also illegal in Texas for some idiotic reason. But what"s funny to me is picturing some old Texas rednecks sitting around the legislature arguing about the specific number. I mean, what made five dildos okay while six was apparently just one too many damn dildos? What if they are different types of dildos? Are vibrators considered different from dildos? What if a lady has a refrigerator drawer filled with cucumbers? Is a SWAT team going to kick in the doors after the local grocery clerk sends in an anonymous tip about bananas being sold in bulk to lonely ladies? You"ve opened a Pandora"s Box here, Texas

6. No Seducing Unmarried Girls " Michigan
You can get up to five years in prison for seducing an unmarried girl, which means that every dude who lives in Michigan who"s married is technically a felon. That"s what makes it so ridiculous.

Do I really need to go on? There are so many American laws that need to be changed and dropped that I could write a book 1000 page long just to touch the tip of the iceberg.
The argument that it is LAW fails to hold any water at all. In all actually again proves the point that the laws need to be changed.

A simple search on the internet will show multitudes of pages and sites of case studies that show where appropriately treated individuals with mental disorders fall victim to their disorder.
20 % of people with bipolar commit suicide
http://statisticbrain.com...
20%.....
THAT"S TREATED AND UNTREATED.
there is NO cure for most mental disorders... only short time temporary treatment... most people laps and fall back into their state of disorder...
It is not in any way reasonable to allow people with mental disorders (even while under temporary treatment) to have positions of power that can affect the lives of innocents.
I am willing to split hairs with my opponent and meet him halfway on this issue... I am willing to fore go my point that no persons with mental disorders should be allowed to hold positions of power... rather that they are allowed to hold these postiotions as long as they disclaim their disorder...
If you give any sane person a list of the 5 attorneys in town and out beside one it says that he has bipolar disorder ... common sense tells us he would not be in business very long and rightfully so...

LIFE is not fair my friends... we are not all entitled to be treated the same because none of us ARE the same.

PMS/PMDD is real. Its symptoms are real and the emotional effects on others are real.
I move to begin a study to show that women suffering from and diagnosed with PMS/PMDD, with symptoms of a certain degree of negative effect be classified as a mental disorder.

This is my final argument.
Thanks to my opponent, it has been my pleasure to debate with him .
Ithacus

Con

This has been an exciting debate and I look forward to its resolution :)

I move to begin a study to show that women suffering from and diagnosed with PMS/PMDD, with symptoms of a certain degree of negative effect be classified as a mental disorder.

Before any professional finishes this study with the results you invented, you cannot win the argument that PMS is a mental disorder, especially since, so far, you have produced not a single professional source or opinion on PMS/PMDD except for an uncited list of symptoms. Because I hold that PMS is misdiagnosed woman-specific MDD, I do not seek to trivialize the negative effects of MDD. However, as I cited before, up to 98% of women do not suffer from MDD. It would be highly irrational and an act of great discrimination to keep 100% of women out of offices of power because 2% of women have MDD. Plenty of men suffer from MDD as well.


My opponent rather irrelevantly provides a lengthy list of peculiar and occasionally disturbingly unconstitutional laws, none of which are acts passed by Congress, in fact all of which are state-specific and not national.

My opponent also fails to prove, despite repeated demands on my part, how PMS or PMDD are in any way, shape or form comparable to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Statistics pertaining to victims of biological brain damage and hallucinations/delusions should never be made analogous to people suffering from emotional anxiety and irritability. Even though upwards of 80% of women have PMS/PMDD, statistics show that women are far better biologically equipped to cope with stress than men, leading biologists to speculate that the stereotypical stressed-out woman may be a culturally induced phenomenon without biological support.

Women are so much better, in fact, at coping with stress that scientists are considering using female hormones to create pills or injections that men can take to help them calm down :)


"We have examined the molecular mechanism underlying gender-specific effects of stress," the study's senior author Zhen Yan, PhD, a professor in the Department of Physiology and Biophysics at the University at Buffalo, said in a press release. "Previous studies have found that females are more resilient to chronic stress and now our research has found the reason why."

The researchers exposed female rats to one week of physical restraint stress, and found that the rat's ability to remember and recognize objects that they had been shown previously was completely unimpaired. But male rats exposed to the same level of stress did show impairment in their short-term memory.


This memory impairment, the study's authors noted, represents a disturbance in signaling capacities of the glutamate receptor in the prefrontal cortex of the brain, the region that governs abstract thinking, behavior regulation, emotion, working memory, and other high-level cognitive functions.

"If we could find compounds similar to estrogen that could be administered without causing hormonal side effects," Yan said in the press release, "they could prove to be a very effective treatment for stress-related problems in males."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...;


Whether or not this is a result of nature or nurture, women are also slightly better negotiators.


When it came to negotiating for a lower price, many shops were unwilling to budge. However, when they did, it was more likely to happen for women than men. In fact, 35 percent of women were able to get their requested price met, compared to 25 percent of men.

“It’s kind of an ironic twist,” says Zettelmeyer, the Nancy L. Ertle Professor of Marketing. “The same kind of cultural expectations that cause repair shops to overcharge women are probably also responsible for showing preference toward women in negotiations.”

http://www.fi-magazine.com...


Women also outperform men in learning environments – such as school:

The study shows that gender disparities in grades start early and uniformly favor girls. In every subject area, boys’ grades are lower than where their test scores would predict, according to the researchers. They attribute this to what they call non-cognitive skills, or “how well each child was engaged in the classroom, how often the child externalized or internalized problems, how often the child lost control and how well the child developed interpersonal skills.” http://psychcentral.com...

Women also used to lag behind on IQ tests, but have now taken the lead – possibly because education opportunities are becoming more equal. http://www.telegraph.co.uk.... Repeated studies have also shown that women are superior investors.



Amazon book: “Warren Buffet Invests Like a Girl: And Why You Should, Too.” http://www.amazon.com...

Additionally, men hold onto their losers a lot longer than women. They’re sure the stock will come roaring back — even as it sinks. Academics call it confirmation bias; investment advisers call it boneheaded. “Women are more loss averse than men, more emotionally unattached and are far quicker to unload losers. Whereas men with their bravado, they don’t want to admit they’re wrong,” says Anthony Zalesky, a certified financial planner who advises individual investors and small businesses. Bad financial decisions often can be traced back to unwarranted optimism, or the “positivity illusion” that things are going to turn out just right. On paper it sounds good — better to be hopeful right? Not so fast. This tendency clouds critical thinking. http://articles.washingtonpost.com...

The study, conducted by consulting firm Rothstein Kass, found that hedge funds led by women, who are the minority in the hedge fund industry, far outperformed the global hedge fund index in 2012. A spokesperson for the study said the results came as no surprise, as research has shown women investors overall are more risk-averse than men, making them potentially "better able to escape market downturns and volatility." The study suggests that female hedge fund managers may be better at managing risk and less likely to try to time the market. Women "trade less and their investments perform better, that they are more realistic, that they are more consistent investors, and that they tend to engage in more thorough research and ignore peer pressure," according to Lofton. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...



Women are at least slightly, if not significantly, superior to men in several aspects crucial for performing well in offices of power, including but not limited to IQ, investment strategies and coping with stress. It would be an enormous loss for the workplace to exclude women from positions of power.


Neither PMS nor PMDD are in any way comparable to schizophrenia. They are restricted to "emotional tension", considered "severe" in only 2-5% of cases. Women have a lot of excellent faculties to bring to the table – just like men do.

Even if a reader were persuaded by Pro to believe PMS/PMDD are comparable to schizophrenia, banning any group or individual from offices of power due to disability is illegal and discriminatory.


Banning women from offices of power due to an illness which is not woman-specific is discrimination. Vote Con. Thank you :)
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by humansruinedearth 3 years ago
humansruinedearth
only a few women have pms anyway, not all of them
Posted by megblack 3 years ago
megblack
While I do acknowledge that women do go through a menstrual cycle (duh) , this should not be deemed a burden by any means. It is important to note that PMS and the "period" industry is highly subsidized and commercialized; companies crack a smile every time a women complies with this MALE DOMINATED commercialization (i.e. "its that time of the month again!)

Women and men are equal. When men fall back on these empty arguments based on insecurity and manifest their personal inferior demons on women's we come to a wall of social improvement.
Posted by woodjm79 3 years ago
woodjm79
it was a pleasure sir!
thanks for the good debate!
i look forward to the next time we get to discuss an issue
Posted by Ithacus 3 years ago
Ithacus
Whoops, I made a mistake in the categorization of my sub-arguments >,> I'll list them in the correct order here so we can both refer to them without confusion

A) There is no experimental proof that PMS and PMDD exist
B) PMS and PMDD are culturally fabricated
C) PMDD is actually MDD (originally B)
D) PMS and PMDD are the modern equivalent of "hysteria" (originally C)
Posted by woodjm79 3 years ago
woodjm79
fair enough i will use my arguments for the debate
Posted by Ithacus 3 years ago
Ithacus
I am working on formulating an argument. However, woodjim79, I'm not sure it's fair to be making arguments that I cannot respond to in the comments section.
Posted by woodjm79 3 years ago
woodjm79
below is a list of some of the symptoms of pms from a medical website

Confusion, difficulty concentrating, or forgetfulness
Fatigue and feeling slow or sluggish
Feelings of sadness or hopelessness
Feelings of tension, anxiety, or edginess
Irritable, hostile, or aggressive behavior, with outbursts of anger toward self or others
Loss of sex drive (may be increased in some women)
Mood swings
Poor judgment
Poor self-image, feelings of guilt, or increased fears
Sleep problems (sleeping too much or too little

these are facts... not how I feel. if you have not noticed women and men are different they are not equal. Do not misinterpret this as saying women are less then men they are not but fact are they are not alike and equal in all ways. if it is a medical fact that 85% of women have pms and the symptoms include and not limited too the above that I posted they should not be allowed to make decisions that effect others lives during this time? that's not hate that's facts... I don't hate women I love them! But if we all subscribe to your theory of life then people that are not mentally stable should be allowed all the privileges as the rest of us ... or we are just being hateful and ignorant.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
"If pms and pmdd is real and women go crazy for a few days then they should be allowed power to effect others lives?"

"then again they may not want to vote during their pms/pmdd period."

Like I said, every word. Your debate is full of hatred and ignorance.
Posted by woodjm79 3 years ago
woodjm79
that is not an argument but nice try.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
Q: How is it sexism?

A: Every word you type.
No votes have been placed for this debate.