The Instigator
BenjamminL04
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
beem0r
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Women should register for the selective service

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,137 times Debate No: 2743
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (8)

 

BenjamminL04

Pro

In an age of feministic views I believe that if women wish to be treated with more respect and looked upon as purely equal then another responsibility they should take is to register with the Selective Service when they turn 18. I believe fully in feminism. It is wrong to pay women less in the work place because they do not have a penis, yet they should also have to carry the same responsibilities as men. This should go for men as well of course.
beem0r

Con

I rarely do this sort of thing, but I had qualms with your resolution, so here goes.

Your resolution states that "Women should register for the selective service." Let me point out a few things before I get to my main point.
When a statement such as the above is made, it is a statement about something that should change given that everything else stays the same. If I made a resolution "Taxes should be lowered," I could not argue that I meant that "Taxes should be lowered only if a law is first passed to increase taxes 100%." It is obvious that I cannot mean the latter statement, since it requires another change to make it valid. Thus, Pro is advocating that women, in society as it is now, should go out and register for Selective Service at age 18, just like guys do.

Now, to my main point. Women are not even ALLOWED to register for selective service. I direct you here:
https://www.sss.gov...
Look at the note in the Sex box: "Current law does not permit females to register."

Thus, for pro to even POSSIBLY be making a favorable assertion, new legislation would first have to be passed. Since this new legislation was neither part of my opponents resolution nor his opening statements, his stance cannot yet be a valid one, since he is urging females to do the impossible.
Debate Round No. 1
BenjamminL04

Pro

Thank you for pointing those things out. Let me rephrase then. Females should be made by law to register for the Selective Service at the age of 18 or face the same consequences males face when they do not comply.
beem0r

Con

Even though I hold that I won in round 1, I will entertain my opponent and the voters with some argumentation.

First, I will establish that even though there may be some sentiments to the contrary, women and men are not equal. They do not, nor should they, bear teh same burdens.

I'll first bring up birthing. When a man and a woman have a child, there is an unevenly massive burden on the female. This is a fact, it is not some form of oppression. It is undeniable proof that the sexes cannot have equal burdens. You speak in favor of equal burdens for men and women, but this is not possible. Consider the consequences. If all society-imposed burdens and rights, such as joining the military or being able to vote, are equal, females unfairly have a bigger burden based solely on the fact that they are female. Not forcing women into selective service is currently a way of at least partially equalizing this burden.

Second, it is not practical to have women in the selective service. In general, which is the scale my opponent seeks to apply his advocacy, women are not as capable of being soldiers, both physically and mentally. Women are more frail both physically and mentally, and are much less likely to succeed as combatant soldiers. Simple, you might think, perhaps we can just give them the noncombatant roles. This makes no sense, since if we ever had a draft again, it wouldn't be noncombatant forces we'd need to replenish, since they don't exactly diminish quite as fast.

So first, it's unfair, since it's an equalizer for childbirth, and second, it's impractical, since women are much less likely to suit the roles the military would need to replenish with selective service.
Debate Round No. 2
BenjamminL04

Pro

BenjamminL04 forfeited this round.
beem0r

Con

I don't really have anything else to say. My points still stand, since my opponent didn't address them.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Round 1 was won because women CAN'T register for it, and that's what it says they should do. Pro was urging women do to something they cannot currently do.

His qualms were aimed at the women who don't register, not at the government. He wasn't saying that the government should make new policies, he was saying that the women should register. This is why he cannot be right. Women shouldn't register for selective service... because they can't.

I realize it's a technicality, which is why I didn't leave it at that, I argued in round 2. However, my opponent did not contend any of my points. How then, can you say he did a better job in the debate? Because you think I'm wrong? I certainly didn't debate worse than him. I addressed all of his points, he addressed none of mine.

Also, if men already have such a tough time dealing with war (as you stated), would not the generally frailer women be even worse off? Why would we do that? People should stick to what they're good at, and women aren't good at being soldiers. Those who are are the exception, not the rule.

Also, please, don't act like it's just as tough being a father during pregnancy as it is being the mother. Whatever you do for your wife is _not an obligation_. It's something you choose to do. It's not something that is forced upon you, a burden you have no choice to bear. In fact, many women don't even have a nice guy like yourself to help them through this tough time.

Also, I only said I "won" in round one because I didn't want people to think that I was abandoning my round 1 position when I continued the argument in another direction. I still hold that position, I simply added another separate argument. Neither of them were criticized by my opponent. Yet there are still those who vote simply based on their own feelings.
Posted by bluejoewho 9 years ago
bluejoewho
Personally I think some people are pissed that women have the audacity to ask for equal pay and equal rights. To Get the "woman" back for this they want to draft her into a war. Over the existence of the human race woman have never fought in war. But yet you want to change it all over her wanting equal pay. I bet your moma didn't breast feed you.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I personally don't want a draft because I don't want people that aren't proud to be a soldier serving anywhere near my husband.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Proof , I can't imagine your wife agrees with you that you had a harder time with the birth of your son than she did. That is so ridiculous to say any father has it harder during childbirth than the mother. You carry a baby for 9 months and then deliver it and then you can tell me how it is so much worse to have to rub a stomach and buy some damn pickles. Do you know what it is like to have morning sickness, cramping, a baby in your lungs, kicking, not being able to sleep in any position you try, heartburn for 9 months straight, an epidural (yes the long needle that gives you the drugs after hours of pain) stuck in your back (5 times when they keep missing) , a whole room full of people looking at you in places you would rather not share, then their is the actual birth. When you have gone through all that then you can tell me you have had a harder time because you had to rub a stomach and buy some pickles. Thank God my husband who is a soldier , knows I had it much harder having our daughter than he did. He will tell you , I had all the pain and he had the joy of just making her, comforting me and watching the joy of her birth. So explain to me when you and your wife both get drafted who will watch your child(ren) ? There are reasons women aren't going to be drafted anytime soon (besides the obvious that there is no draft currently because there are so many brave men and women that volunteer.) Women can't serve in an infantry unit. Women and men are equal in some ways , but are still made differently. Women can go through childbirth and men can't. Women are often times better at nurturing while men are often better at being warriors. My husband and I are very different. I could never be as brave as he is and go off to war. I would not be able to touch a gun let alone shoot one unless if I had to defend my family. He could and is comfortable with it. There are always exceptions to the rules. However many women would not make good soldiers although some may.
Posted by proof317 9 years ago
proof317
For the record blue. I don't completely agree with the draft, BUT, if I have to sign up for it then why shouldn't that woman yelling "equal rights" "equal pay" not have to sign up for it.
I don't feel I should be forced to serve a country that I don't agree with, BUT if I do, then so should that woman stitting in the office cubicle next to me making the same pay as I.
Posted by bluejoewho 9 years ago
bluejoewho
This comes down to philosophy. And by the way, bemmor, you made your argument a whole lot more complicated then what it needed to be. And by the way, you don't "win" round 1 because ben didn't bring up the fact that of course a law would have to be enacted in order for woman to register. That's just down right silly. I personally thought that it was obviously implied.

Calm down and be more quick to your point. And don't ever say you "win" a round. You look like an arse.
Posted by proof317 9 years ago
proof317
I learned it all from bluejoewho
who? Yo mamma!!
Posted by bluejoewho 9 years ago
bluejoewho
first of all i voted for con. I disagree with his style but his overall point I agree with.

Bottom line, men and woman are different. Women nurture. Men Protect. Its in our DNA. Don't deny your manhood. I know that's hard for some.

Watch out for proof. I heard he's a flaming pole smoker;)
Posted by proof317 9 years ago
proof317
You are correct, I didn't have a baby inside me for nine months. But I did bust my balls working my butt off 12 hour shifts to come home to a freezing apartment to lay down next to her stomach and rub it and talk to it for a couple of hours. Then I would take a shower and relax for a couple of hours. Then after finally nodding off after my 18 hour day I would get woke up with the famous "Are you awake?". So I could in turn run to the grocery store for some pickles and vanilla ice cream. Then after two whole big hours of sleep, guess what? I got to get up for work and do it again!!!
9 months, yes that's right!!
Apparently you don't have a child, so don't you even begin to tell me what it's like for a father during childbirth!!
Oh, and FYI, she was in labor for 47 hours. Approx. 36 of those she sleep due to them yummy drugs they get. Know how much I sleep???
ZERO!!!!
Because I had to deal with MY son's heart rate up and down or not there at all.
Round one? You did not win. He was stating that they should have to register. If that implies some congressional move then that's what it meant.
I voted for him because I think your argument no way supported your theory nor any realistic common sense.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Oh come on. You didn't have to deal with the burden of having a child inside you for 9 months.
The point is, both sexes do not have the same burdens by nature, so the best we can do is even the scales.

Also, please don't vote based on your own view. Vote based on the arguments. There is absolutely NO way you can vote for my opponent based on the debating. This is simply ridiculous. Not only did I win in round 1 on a technicality, but then I made an argument and my opponent didn't argue against it.

This is the cancer that is killing debate.org
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by THEmanlyDEBATER3 9 years ago
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