The Instigator
FalseReality
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
pageantgrl
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Women will never fully be respected as long as they continue to be beautiful

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,665 times Debate No: 11346
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

FalseReality

Pro

My stance is that women will not fully be respected as individuals as long as they continue to care about their looks, in particularly being beautiful or sexy. More recently in the 21st century, women have been trying to be viewed as equals to men in both the business world and their personal life. This debae is not about whether that pursuit is good or not, but whether or not that is actually achievable. I say it is not, as men in some form or fashion will still see them primarily in a sexual way, especially as long as women encourage it. This goes beyond the jobs of prostitutes or strippers who are just trying to make a living, but even to women of high status. For instance, a typical fashion for women now a days is very form fitting clothes, such as this:

<http://3.bp.blogspot.com...;

Dresses are also still worn

<http://fc06.deviantart.net...;

Cleavage as well as emphasis on other extremities are mainstream fashion

<http://www.gypsyrosedancing.com...;

And women are still very much concerned about looks, even in serious job positions.

<http://poplicks.com...;

I've tried my best to find pictures that aren't models, which is very hard to do with Google. In all these cases these are not women whose job it is to be revealing and attractive but willingly choose to do it themselves. It's an undeniable fact that the majority of women, or at least those in America, care about their looks. They only continue to propagate the image of "sex object". Because of this, they will primarily be viewed first on their appearance, then secondly their personalities. Women (such as feminists) have no one to blame other than their own gender. Because women continue to enforce this stereotype, men will never fully respect them as people without first judging their sex appeal, regardless of job or status position. It is therefore my opponents job to show that women can be fully respected first as people, regardless of whether they care about/encourage their physical appearance.
pageantgrl

Con

As pro mentioned that woman will never be respected as long as their beautiful which is fully not true there are so many men out there that respect woman but as they said dresses are worn and "sex object" men are also "sex objects" take play girl men pose nude for a woman's pleasure and this day in age beauty is important for no matter who you are. axe also shows men and same with underwear commercials. they also mention "hookers" but if the woman plans this to be her job then it is her job it's the woman's body and she should not be judge what she uses it for. same with "exotic dancers" they are planning to do this with them self's. If it was men that did this as much as woman they would not be judge as much as a woman because every thing is so biased with gender.

since this is a guy
http://www.piercemattie.com...

im sure no one really does care

but this is a woman
http://img.alibaba.com...

she is judged because she is beautiful and she is modeling underwear.
Debate Round No. 1
FalseReality

Pro

I'm going to try and rewrite my opponents arguments so that they are more, uh, comprehensible.

"As pro mentioned, woman will never be respected as long as they're beautiful which is not entirely true. There are many men out there that respect woman"

I didn't say there weren't any, we're mostly talking about majorities, in which case because women are still so concerned with their looks, and continually try to make themselves look "sexy", men will first view them as sex objects rather than as people.

"But as he said dresses are still worn."

Exactly. Women continue to fall into the accepted feminine dress style. Not to say that to get respect they have to come in pant suits to fancy parties, but there are other clothing lines available or at least they could be less revealing. This form of clothing is now almost a requirement among women who wish to or are going to "high class" events, and I think that a first step for women gaining more respect as people than beauties is to stop conforming to the acceted female attire norm, such as dresses.

"and in this day and age beauty is important for everyone no matter who you are." & " "sex object" men are also "sex objects", take play girl men who pose nude for a woman's pleasure"

I staunchly disagree. Many men do undoubtedly care about their appearance. However, the unattractive male is just as socially acceptable as the attractive one. For instance, most corporate heads are, generally speaking, old men. Statistically speaking, they do not put nearly as much emphasis into making themselves look good as females do. For instance, Jim Sinegal, CEO of Costco, is not an in particularly trim man. He has no make up, jewelry, and no fashion trend is expected off him beyond a tucked in shirt. However on the flip side, Teri Fontenot, CEO of Womans Hospital, is wearing make up, some jewelry, and a very feminine business suit [http://www.businessreport.com...]. She may not be a super model, but she is still taking extra time to appear "lady like". And I am not arguing about whether or not models of either sex are hurting their cause, I stated clerly in the first round that I wasn't talking about people whose job it is to be attractive, like models and actors. I am saying that the women majority, those who are just being paid to work, in any job field, are only continuing to make themselves a stereotype by taking the time to look pretty. I'm not saying someone can't take care of themselves, but the degree to which women take to ensure their attractiveness is far greater than that exhibited and more importantly,expected of men. As long as women continue this trend they will only continue to be "eye candy" first.

"If it was men that did this as much as woman they would not be judged as much as a woman because every thing is so biased with gender"

EXACTLY! It IS biased. And I think it doesn't have to be, but women just keep the ball rolling! They do not have to adhere by the century old view of the feminine woman, but they continue to do so. If they all stopped caring so much about their looks, then the would finally be brought up to the social status of men, not only legally as it is now, but socially. I contend that though it says on paper women must be treated equally, they are still viewed as inferior walking dolls, and not as people as they should be. But I am also saying that it is more womans fault for that then men's because they let themselves be viewed that way by encouraging and exacerbating it.
pageantgrl

Con

woman view a guy that way too if a guy is ugly some girls wont want any thing to do with them at all. even though woman have to keep themselves looking good because of Hollywood same as guys. both men and woman have their imperfections that they want to prefect then why cant they. men or woman they are treated equally and in-equally so every one just makes a big deal about a woman doing something to her body when guys are doing the same thing
Debate Round No. 2
FalseReality

Pro

"Women view a guys that way too. If a guy is ugly some girls won't want any thing to do with them at all."
That may be true but it is not socially unacceptable for men to go out without make up, jewelry or revealing clothing. It basically is for women. Even if women are not in the best shape they will still make an effort to look good even if they are only going to the grocery store or a movie. Men do not have that same "requirement".

"Even though woman have to keep themselves looking good because of Hollywood, same as guys."
Again, we've already established that this is not about men or women whose job it is to look good. This is about normal, everyday women who make themselves pretty for day to day activities, and how doing that only continues to make them appear as sex objects to men.

"Both men and woman have their imperfections that they want to prefect, so then why cant they?"
Being in shape, as I've already stated, is not the issue at hand. What is is women objectifying themselves with their bodies, in shape or not. I've already stated numerous times how they do that, and don't think I need to reiterate.

"Men or women are treated equally and unequally, so why does every one just makes a big deal about a woman doing something to her body when guys are doing the same thing?"
Because en are not doing the same thing. In a male dominated society, they are viewed much more for their work ethic than women, who are first viewed for their looks, then by their job ability. Working past that is the goal women have to work for, and they are not going to reach it by continuing to care more about their looks than their job. There is a very distinct line between going out looking decent and going out trying to look good, and women very pointedly cross that on a day to day basis for no other reason than that's how it's always been done.

So to conclude, I believe I've made it quite clear that women are only continuing to objectify themselves as a beautiful talking body rather than as a respectable person. While men and women have equal rights on paper, the mind set is not there. While this is the case, and women continue to go out with the expressed desire to be attractive than that is what they will be first.
pageantgrl

Con

pageantgrl forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by belle 6 years ago
belle
its not socially unacceptable for a woman to go out without makeup either. except, interestingly enough, according to some women. at least in my experience.
Posted by MeganLoaskia 6 years ago
MeganLoaskia
quite a contreversial arguement, as the reason women DO continue to " dress sexy" OR wear alot of makeup is because they think the man wont be as intrested . Its true :)
Posted by Kinesis 6 years ago
Kinesis
Excellent topic. Shame about Con.
Posted by FalseReality 6 years ago
FalseReality
Dammit.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
Pro, bottom three links are 404 not found.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by NiamC 2 years ago
NiamC
FalseRealitypageantgrlTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by beastboy838 6 years ago
beastboy838
FalseRealitypageantgrlTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by belle 6 years ago
belle
FalseRealitypageantgrlTied
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Total points awarded:50