The Instigator
FanboyMctroll
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
alex_kava
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Work Unions are good

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2017 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 days ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 171 times Debate No: 104821
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

FanboyMctroll

Pro

I personally believe work unions are good, as they protect employees from being taken advantage of, by companies, managers and bosses. Unions do conflict with capitalistic views but I believe without unions we would not be in the position we are now in the work force. Without unions, we would end up with rich owners and slave workers who would have no rights and would be forced to work for meager wages just to survive while being exploited by their employers.

I am all for unions, although I realize that unions can also have bad traits, I still believe in them. Tell me why unions are bad, because I'm all for them
alex_kava

Con

The definition of a union is "an organized association of workers in a trade, group of trades, or profession, formed to protect and further their rights and interests." But is it really? Is it formed to further the rights and interests? Unions are actually a push for a state income tax hike, meaning that governments get more money thanks to the union laws specifically 14.9% higher in total compensation nationally. Unions work like an machine, a political perpetual motion machine and the only way to stop it is to break the chain of automatic money transfers for tax payers, to the government, to the unions and then finally back to the politician. Basically, stop the fuel of this machine which is OUR money. Money is taken away from workers who are not directly controlled or/and affected by the government. Unions are used and exist to protect workers, but it is proven that in the 21st century most people are living under secure and anxious work- rebutting against your point that without unions we would not be in the position we are now in the work force. Furthermore I would like to add that work/labor unions increase unemployment. Supporting workers is the goal of unions? I say that it is for a fact that work unions hurt workers, minimum wage laws hurt young workers from the age of 16-24 by making it harder for them to find and enter jobs. It is statistically proven that when the federal minimum wage first became law in 1938, it was 25 cents. Adjusted for inflation, that would be worth $4.19 today this caused a severe increase of unemployment rate with over 50,000 people losing their jobs. Since then economic researchers have demonstrated that 10% increase in minimum wage jobs lead to a 3% overall reduction of jobs for younger workers. I tell you fellow debaters haven't we long passed the times when 14 year old children worked 18 hours a day? Yes we have, then why have work unions to "support" the young workers? I will proceed to rebuttal against your clearly not researched points of your opening statement of unions being useful for protecting employees being taken advantage of.
Debate Round No. 1
FanboyMctroll

Pro

Unions were created by workers standing up together for fair wages, safe workplaces and decent work hours. Without these things, the employers would have workers working for them like slaves. Workers would have no rights and would just be fired if they refused to do an illegal job function, dangerous work or potentially fatal work environments, paint exhausts, gases. If an employee refused he would just be fired without any protection.

Having a union on your side makes your job and your workplace safer and fairer. You get paid better and are more likely to have benefits that help you balance work with life at home. Your health and ability to do your job become important and your right to fair treatment gets enforced.

It shows that, on average, unionized workers across the USA earned $5.28/hour more than non-union workers. Women with unions earned more too, $7.10/hour and got paid more fairly. Workers under age 25 earned an extra 27% from jobs covered by a collective agreement.

Workers in unions are an important part of the local community and economy because that"s where they spend their pay checks . Their incomes support local businesses who create local jobs and bolster the local tax base, which supports public works and community services that add to everyone"s quality of life.

The benefits enjoyed by unionized workers dental insurance, extended health care coverage and legal insurance, to name a few attract and support dentists, opticians, chiropractors, therapists, health specialists, and family lawyers whose services are available to everyone in the community.

When they retire, the incomes earned from years of contributions into pension plans also provide money to spend in the community. More importantly, they provide income security, which means fewer seniors having to rely on their families or social programs to get by. Same goes for the health, drug and survivor benefits that many retirees enjoy because they had a union when they worked.

When unions stand up for fairness, they raise the bar for everyone. Many of the things first won by unions are enjoyed by all workers today " minimum wages, overtime pay, workplace safety standards, maternity and parental leave, vacation pay, and protection from discrimination and harassment.

Unions are for employees, all employers would not understand this because all they care about is maximum profit and they do not care about their employees and they believe employees are expendable and if you don't do the job someone else will. Employers treat their employees as numbers to get the job done. You have no rights and if you don't do what you are told then you are fired. Without unions we would still be working 16 hour days, 7 days a week like slaves. It would be no different then ancient Egypt when a Pharaoh would rake in the riches and sit lavishly in his kingdom, while the slaves built his pyramids and lavish gardens while being whipped and fed bread and water only. Unions protect against that.
alex_kava

Con

Moving on, from my first round argument I would like to proceed to state that unions are also unfair to workers that are not in one especially young workers. For example Union laws give protection to all its' labourers . What if ladies and gentlemen this labourer is lazy and unproductive and doesn't offer anything to the community or to his work area? According to these laws respective Pro, as long as this labourer shows up to work there is no way he can get fired. As you said " Unions were created by workers standing up together for fair wages, safe workplaces and decent work hours," this is exactly what I will use as my argument, this statement enables labourers to be as lazy or as unproductive as they want without being punished for it. Now I ask a question do we want a society where workers are lazy and unproductive or a society where labourers improve everyday in work by following their orders from their bosses? Also, other workers not included in a union are not allowed to go even as far as provide assistance or touch another labourer's (in a union) tools because it trespasses the union laws "taking away from a union employee." An example of this is that technicians and operators get $28 per hour-more than hardworking engineers- this being an enormous amount for a labourer that has the freedom to leave his working space whenever he desires. Do you consider this fair? Furthermore, my second argument because of unions an employee has "the right to leave," even with no complete clauses, contracts-rebutting to your point above; it is proved that very few union employees are forced to work even in simple jobs that do not require any "dangerous work" , therefore companies have numerous restrictions because of this. Labor unions are bad for business, , unions are found to be in a study , functioning as labor cartel, and with higher wages, they " bring less investment, fewer jobs, higher prices, and smaller 401(k) plans for everyone else." This shows how bad labor unions are. In addition the top-skilled people will be excluded because labor unions try to have equality, but end up putting a cap on the wage, so the skilled workers won't work any more, as proved to be true. Finally I would like to move on to further rebuttal on Pros argument that It shows that," on average, unionized workers across the USA earned $5.28/hour more than non-union workers. Women with unions earned more too, $7.10/hour and got paid more fairly. " Imagine a labourer as I said before who does nothing or very little compared to a non-union worker and is still paid this amount of money whatsoever . Would you want this to happen to you? Again, to stress this, when comparing the Private Construction Employment, the union largely fails to increase and stays static, while the non-union vastly increase, opening new jobs. To end my second round argument I would like to state that some trade unions, such as the Teamsters, have been criticized for involvement with organized crime and that trade unions take strike actions that result in the disruption of public services. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
FanboyMctroll

Pro

I have more points here on why a Union is beneficial to a work place

COLLECTIVE BARGANING is the heart and soul of the labor union. A single worker might feel that a certain new safety measure should be implemented in his factory, but he might have limited power to get the company to install the new measure. If the entire workforce is made aware of the need for the new measure and bands together to pressure the company to install it, there is a much greater chance that the company will comply. Labor unions join workers together, allowing the voices of individual workers to be heard and made into a goal of the whole union.

WORKERS SAFETY when employees are considered disposable, businesses can become less interested in protecting them. Employees also may lack someone to intervene on their behalf with management on safety issues when there is no union representation. When workplaces become organized, the need for cooperation becomes more obvious. Companies recognize that they can take steps to make a stable workforce more safe, productive and effective, through training, better equipment, and making better use of their knowledge.

HIGHER WAGES One of the top benefits of being a union worker is that you enjoy a better wage as compared to your non-union counterparts. Union workers get about 20 percent more in terms of wages compared to others in similar jobs that aren"t supported by a union. Union workers are also more likely to enjoy consistent pay raises on a regular basis. This is due to collective bargaining between the union and the employer that results in an agreement setting out clear terms regarding pay and wages. With a non-union job, the employer can set the wage without any formal bargaining process or input from the employee

BETTER BENEFITS One other key benefit of working as a union employee is that union representatives work on your behalf if you have a personal issue with the employer. Non-union employees have to contact the company"s human resources department for assistance, but it"s important to keep in mind that the department is part of the company, not a representative of the workers. Meeting with a boss and the employer"s HR representative can make an employee with feel outnumbered and vulnerable. Having a union representative evens out that balance of power.

All these key points show why it's better to have a Union as a worker. Employers will never like an union because they want to be the BOSS, they want to make all the decisions, but unfortunately they all take it too far and employees become just numbers or slaves to be exploited for their labor.

Unions fight for the people for equality and for a fair wage to survive in this competitive power hungry, money profiting world where profit is more important then an employees well being or compensation. Without employees the bosses, the corporations would not have anything done, accomplished or made, Unions make sure those employees are protected from mistreatment

(mic drop)
alex_kava

Con

Honorable opponent, for the last round of this debate I would like to start with my points, the argument that unionized workers raise their own wages above their natural rate at the expense of their businesses or other workers assumes that unions never raise productivity to compensate for higher wages. Unions are capable of raising productivity by reducing turnover, by increasing coordination between workers and management, and by increasing workers' motivation. Many unions raise the productivity of their workers, and some even raise it enough to make up for wage increases. Another argument raised by union supporters is that unionized workers will spend their higher wages, driving economic growth and creating new jobs. Union opponents respond that this is an example of the broken window fallacy; union supporters assume that money is more valuable in the hands of unionized workers than in the hands of whoever else would obtain it in the union's absence. There is some evidence that this is not a fallacy, as greater wealth equality seems to be correlated with greater economic growth. Union supporters counter that unions, if organized without violence or government help, are part of the free market; if unions can win higher wages for their workers without coercion, those wages are legitimate.Union violence is violence committed by unions or union members during labor disputes. When union violence has occurred, it has frequently been in the context of industrial unrest. Violence has ranged from isolated acts by individuals to wider campaigns of organised violence aimed at furthering union goals within an industrial dispute. Advocates of unions claim that the higher wages that unions demand can be paid for through company profits. However, as Milton Friedman pointed out, profits are only very rarely high enough. 80% of national income is wages, and only about 6% is profits after tax, providing very little room for higher wages, even if profits could be totally used up. Moreover, profits are invested leading to an increase in capital: which raises the value of labor, increasing wages. If profits were totally removed, this source of wage increase would be removed.According to The New York Times, wages in 2012 fell to a record low of 43.5 percent.

I would not like to engage in any further rebuttal because my points are too strong for the opposition to win this debate.
I would like to thank the opposition and I am looking forward to seeing the vote. Honorable judges I hope you see clearly who was won this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by alex_kava 1 day ago
alex_kava
Someone vote please!
Posted by alex_kava 2 days ago
alex_kava
Let the best man win!
Posted by FanboyMctroll 2 days ago
FanboyMctroll
Very well put third round. Now we will have to wait for the Judges
Posted by alex_kava 2 days ago
alex_kava
Don't think so! Not this time!
Posted by FanboyMctroll 2 days ago
FanboyMctroll
In one hour I will be athe champion of yet another debate. If DDO counted all the forfeits I think I would be at 100-1 record for debating. Everyone just drops out, so I am the winner again!!!
Posted by NCdavidB 1 week ago
NCdavidB
I am working on another debate this week. PM next week if you still need an opponent.
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