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2far4u2CharlesDarwin
Pro (for)
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The Contender
JavaScriptCoder
Con (against)
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World Wide Unemployment Benefits.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/17/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 2 weeks ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 234 times Debate No: 115450
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
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2far4u2CharlesDarwin

Pro

As we move forward and robots become Charles Darwin's parasitic wasps. The majority will become the minority the unlike s of today's, majority that suffer because of a minority.

Wall E the Walt Disney movie https://www.youtube.com... is closer to tomorrow then people think and the only answer to any of this has been sang over and over again and again. But nothing ever changes when the wrong people are in charge. dito

So how about we put someone like Malvina Reynolds, Glen Campbell or Tom T. Hall, in charge and we can all sing together the people of the mother Earth.

The 1% didn't listen when these fallen heroes sang for us, too the 1%. Have the 1% ears or are they just painted on?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
JavaScriptCoder

Con

My argument:

#1 "World-Wide": There is already worldwide unemployment benefits, and they're good enough.
So far, I have not been able to find countries with absolutely *no* unemployment benefits in case someone becomes unemployed. According to http://aboutunemployment.org..., there is unemployment insurance in all 50 states if people are not fired 'for cause'. Ranging from 12-30 weeks long, these benefits are already in place for workers who are laid off due to automation and other causes not related to their work conduct to help them when they are looking for another job. Some places (Finland) even give UBI, or Universal Basic Income, which is basically free money to unemployed people. So as the countries of the world move towards Finland's example, giving out free money to help people pursue their interests, find a new job, and move forward in life, what more is there to be asked for?
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Responding to your arguments:

#2 "As we move forward and robots become Charles Darwin's parasitic wasps. The majority will become the minority the unlike s of today's, majority that suffer because of a minority."

I will take this piece by piece. "Robots become Charles Darwin's Parasitic Wasps" I assume means this Darwin quote: "I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created parasitic wasps with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars." I similarly assume that the wasps are the robots and they are supposed to feed on... *us*?

Let us first revisit why we have this system set up the way it is. We all need money because it facilitates the exchange of goods, allowing us to get food, get water, get shelter... all of our basic needs, and more. Robots are starting to take over the more menial parts of this labor: For example consider Adam Smith's pin factory. He states that "One man draws out the wire, another straights it, a third cuts it, a fourth points it, a fifth grinds it at the top for receiving, the head; to make the head requires two or three distinct operations; to put it on is a peculiar business, to whiten the pins is another; it is even a trade by itself to put them into the paper..." would *you* want to be stuck whitening pins eight hours a day for the rest of your life? I hope not! Robotics can take the menial labor and do it much better than humans, leaving humans time to do other, more skilled labors.

#3 "Wall E the Walt Disney movie..."

Yes, please everyone, climate change is real. What I disagree with is that "the wrong people are in charge". Try setting up and playing World Climate with others and you will find how hard it is to fix our problems. Maybe even try playing it with your "Tom T. Hall". You will find that solving problems requires more than the right people in charge. Being a good singer with good ideals isn't going to solve climate change either. "in charge" is difficult as well. The world has 195 countries (recognized by US State Department). The world has 7 billion people. Good luck getting all those people to agree to have massive changes, sea changes in their lives so that we can stop climate change. You'll have to get everyone to close coal and natural gas plants, jump start electric car building, build renewable plants, etc. Without a dictatorship this is impossible to accomplish, and no one likes dictatorships anyways.

#4 "Have the 1% ears" DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT PART OF THE 1% NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE

Yes, the 1% have ears, they are humans like the rest of us, and they are kind as well. The only thing they share are their material wealth. There are Democrats and Republicans and Independents in this group. There are climate advocates and deniers in this group. There are presidents and oil executives and lawyers in this group. There are *singers and political advocates* in the group, and maybe one of your idols are part of the 1%. There are many with compassion and brilliance, and a few with just... brilliance? Any problem is hard to solve, and changing a few heads at the top won't solve them. The United States, right now, has a reality show star at its helm. Did it help? It once had a peanut farmer, an actor, and of course the lawyers and senators at its helm. Did they do their job well enough? Some did, some didn't. It's very 50/50.
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Conclusion

I believe A) we already have robust unemployment standards
B) adding new political neophytes at the top of politics won't make things get better
C) robots will make our lives better
My arguments are listed above.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
2far4u2CharlesDarwin

Pro

This site is privately owned and is neither affiliated with, nor endorsed by, nor operated by any government agency is a glitch y as the likes of your reply. This is your site a blank screen or reload this page and have 1 second to read it. Freedom of speech is f#cking hilarious. http://aboutunemployment.org...

Approximately 70,000,000 psychopaths and approximately 280,000,000 sociopaths 1% and 4% of the worlds population both have destructive habitual behavioral issues, they both have no moral compass about empathetic or sympathetic traits that loving caring parents teach their children.
High functioning sociopaths and psychopaths play vicious games exploiting any that threaten their statues quo of all I.Q levels. A trained mind can spot both traits. A true psychopath have an actual physical brain disorder and sociopaths has a physiological brain dysfunction.
One in five CEO's exploit humanities humane it's about the same as prisoners in prison.
https://www.healthyplace.com...
http://www.beardexecutiveconsulting.com...

Sigmund Freud selling out the human race to the 1% and 4% that had very little concept of how to exploit humanities humane.
https://firmitas.org...

Google: The Future of an Illusion by Sigmund Freud (Summary) - Firmitas.org
If the links above doesn't work any more. Freedom of information still exists.

Even my own site https://sites.google.com... doesn't fit into a conversational laptop or monitor screen unless you know how to do it. Within view settings.

So we all drag the chain of dread and don't quit while your ahead. Is it any wonder the eclipse of division between life and death?
It's a sad truth to consider.
How could an existence creator have unconditional love, if free will was taken from its own creation "us", by coming out from behind an eclipse, as to crucify its own free will?

When all he asked of us was to love each other and we will learn how to love our self and don't do to another what you wouldn't do to yourself.

The tongue is as a double-edged sword it cuts both ways. Practicing; Empathy, Humility, Sympathy and Cooperation throughout our lives, create's an understanding of the surroundings that we are subjected to, doing this teaches us how to talk to each other, so we can speak with each other and not at each other.

These are the structured principles of the shifting sands of time that one man told us all over 2000 years ago and what have we learned from history, that we learn very little from it at all.
Because action speaks louder than words and what have we all done apart from creating a tree of monkeys and a Tower of Babel. We have let the shifting sands of time corrupt our own religions and beliefs within a BIASED SANDBOX recording of the teachings of Jesus Christ, from when he came out from behind our own eclipsed minds and showed us the way home.

2far4u2 Charles Darwin the benevolent analyst. AIDS of an Allusion is not an illusion as to exists without devolution within the Stars.

Move along little donkey and that will do pig.

One dark day in the middle of the night.
Two dead men got up to fight.
Back to back, they faced each other.
Drew their swords and shot each other.
One was blind the other could see.
So they chose a blind man as the referee.
The blind man went to watch fair play.
And two lame men came too carried them away
with a paralysed donkey that was passing by
that ended up kicking the blind man in the eye.
It knocked him through a nine-inch wall.
Into a dry ditch that drowned them all.
A deaf policeman heard all the noise
He came to arrest the two dead men that were just young boys.
If you don't believe this story"s true,
Ask the blind man he seen it all through you and me.
And the two boys called it liberty.

Upon this road of lest forget, we meet another with no regret to ask our eyes that sting us so, the how's or why's of constant sorrow. We stumble across a justly act to see us through a humble fact that lies within mercy's grace, that is the way of mummies safe. Let us stray beyond this funny space. With love and faith towards a nicer place.

At the going down of the sun and in the mourning. We will remember them. Lest we forget. Remember the person that they where before they left and we lest forget the person they had to become to return. For the real heroes are the fallen.
Peace be with you all and thank you from us all that justly know.
JavaScriptCoder

Con

Before I get too far into this, I'm glad that you have decided to respond to my query. It's nice to have another person to debate against on a reasonable topic. That being said,

For the record:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com..., and also ad hominem. I'm either with you, or with the sociopaths and psychopaths you mention for most of your argument, correct? And of course my reply is *glitchy* and I don't respect your fallen heroes even though at least one of them is still alive. This is, as per you, "f#cking hilarious". However, I won't dwell on fallacies in your speech or the saturation of sentence fragments in your speech. You're free to say what you want and it's a valid argument.

My argument:
About the website: you probably don't have the correct screen resolution to read it. Here's another one from the government: https://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov.... I don't care the source, the facts of the case are the same no matter what source they come from. What I'm trying to press here is that unemployment benefits are already in place, and we have a robust system, the economy is booming, and unemployment is at 4.1% here in the US of A even though automation is taking away those menial manufacturing jobs you're lamenting.

We have National Unemployment Benefits, and they are robust, alive, and well. "World Wide Unemployment Benefits", which I believe you take to mean one large umbrella unemployment insurance covering the entire world would require more bureaucracy, more organizations to check the unemployment benefits and more hassle for ordinary people trying to get their benefits. This is unnecessary given the already robust systems in place. A few dozen lines of unrelated verse and imploring people to listen to the fallen heroes, out of which 33% are still alive do not change the facts of the case. An argument about "how could an existence creator have unconditional love, if free will was taken from its own creation "us", by coming out from behind an eclipse, as to crucify its own free will?" does not change the facts. Nor does the false statistic that 20% of CEOs are psychopaths have anything to do with unemployment*. Can we please, please stay on topic? I've come here to argue about the cons of having an international organization giving out universal unemployment benefits, not about whether I'm a sociopath.

* That figure is 513% of the actual figure, with a study by Babiak et. al. concluding that only about 3.9% "had a score of 30 or higher (the common research threshold for psychopathy..." (Babiak et. al, 184)

Babiak, P., Neumann, C. S., & Hare, R. D. (2010). Corporate psychopathy: Talking the walk. Behavioral Sciences and the Law, 28, 174-193.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Something that may or may not help you (not an argument, because this is wayyy off topic):

It it very easy to see the world in black and white. No effort is needed. All you need to do is to ALWAYS assume that you are right, ALWAYS the others are wrong. Don't get me wrong, kindness and compassion are essential traits to have, but the world is not divided into categories. There aren't psychopaths and non-psychopaths. There is a percentage scale on which they are rated. Who knows, you could be 3% psychopathic, I could be 5%, maybe even ten. Does that mean I lack all basic compassion? Does that mean I have no moral compass? Now, look again at your leaders. If I am not mistaken, your PM is Malcolm Turnbull. Is he the "wrong person to be in charge"? A former journalist, lawyer, merchant banker, and venture capitalist with leadership experience that a majority of your population voted for is *probably* the best choice for governing your nation. Frankly, who else? Would 50% of your population vote for Tom T. Hall? There are shades of grey, and I hope one day you and I can sit down together and see the world as it is. Not in black and white, but in shades of grey.

Respectfully,
JSC
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Debate Round No. 2
2far4u2CharlesDarwin

Pro

You over generalize. So it's Little boxes on the hillside with Malvina Reynolds
https://www.youtube.com...

And I mention now 3 fallen hero's as you somehow someway think that I have mentioned live hero's . So you want to play like that then how about 1971 Don McLean with Orphans of Wealth and how about The universal soldier from Donovan And still you come up with some bull sh$t medical government funded care with a pay it back until you drop and an unemployment system as to be slaves of rent, food and electricity as to pay it all back as well in slave labour. So are the 1%'s ears painted on or what?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

And yes we of Australia know that people within positions of power are either narcissists, sociopaths or f$cking power hungry ego maniacs that if they had it there way would be the most wealthiest to be the most powerful and all to become a sexual perverted sadomasochistic despot.

Sigmund Freud selling out the human race to the 1% of the human race has all wealth and many more then then 4% of them are narcissistic egomaniac sociopaths that had very little concept of how to exploit humanities humane until the 1900's when
https://firmitas.org...

In 1911 the United Kingdom introduced the National Insurance Act 1911. Humanity is humane after all. Why didn't the rest of the world leaders follow suit and adjust it accordingly with the changing times. https://en.wikipedia.org...

As Australia has ever since Mr's Margret and Gough Whitlam in the late 60's and Julia Gillard of the early 2010's the only humanitarians as to make it as prime ministers worth there salt.

Cause and effect has been out of the majorities grasp ever since WW2 and the end of the civil wars in Europe. Since then we exist within a Skinner box materialist throw-away society.
https://www.simplypsychology.org...

Eugenics that many nations adopted back in the early 1900.
https://www.britannica.com...

We are now in an age of consequences. Are the 5 permanent members of the united nations ready to consider change upon their governing rule by accepting all nations to become permanent members of the United Nations? Could this be even possible or is it the money and the power that keeps them there, to begin with, while they continue pointing nuclear bombs at each other in some game of insanity?

These 5 and of late now 6 permanent members of the united nations are at the very top of the scientist's tree of monkeys. The top and upper branches has the Psychopaths/ Sociopaths with money and power designing principles upon shifting sands that create unethical corporatism within capitalism, along with the scientists creating something new that we all must have and pay a fee to use, as to get the next grant for funding their laboratory's with blood money made from unethical corporatism within capitalism.
The middle branches are B.F. Skinner's rat race propping each other up finding some security in there so called successes. Surrounding themselves with creature comforts along with the scientists that have to invent something new that we all must have and pay a fee to use so that they both can have their names up in lights as to move up the tree. Upon the lower branches are humanities humane and the educated undecided atheist scientists all working together as slaves, yes slaves that have no more then the basic necessities of life and then there are the people on the ground that shift through the sh$t that trickles effectively all the way from the very top and the only thing that varies is the depth.

The only love I see on this tree is humanities humane and the educated undecided atheist scientists all as slaves working together on the lowest branches as not to drown in the rising sh$t. Saving who they can from being sweep away within tidal surges that continues to trickle down effectively poisoning the roots of the tree that creates an existence within a Skinner box materialist throw-away society.

Stupid seppo's leading the way down the septic tank. So all I can say is F#CK OFF AMERICA WITH ALL OF YOUR LIABILITIES THAT YOU DESCRIBE AS LIBERTIES. But we read the fine print of your corporate materialistic capitalism. Go and buy a gold plated airplane and make it you president.

Religion and beliefs have had its place in time to be the leading rule for the people by the people and it just isn't the structures created for worship that it was and should be. Religion and beliefs over time corrupt their own fundamental principles, when they try to become a governing force. People then break away and create their own governing rule. All religions and beliefs belong between the people and governing rule. Credibility is kept in check of both positions of authority at the people's discretion.
So how is it that the leaders of the towers of Babel (established religions and beliefs of today) have so much wealth and treasures while people are starving to death? So many wealthy individuals upon the tree of monkeys (today's worldwide economics') would pay billions.
The word Babel was an attempt to break down the barriers of communication to reach our own existence creator who was believed to be in the heavens. Be it that heaven was at the very top of the Tower of Babel. All religions and beliefs of all nations could supposedly communicate with each other within the miracle gift of speaking in tongues.
To have a position upon this tower you had to be the leader of your religions belief within its own hierarchy and all that mattered was who could be trusted with the tree/ book of knowledge.

All on-board become in-captured with a love that was so pure no one could measure. It was so overwhelming all that tried to make there way up the tower where ridiculed and ostracized by another upon the stoop above and all about them. Slandering each others name and reputation as to drive them back down making those about them look undeserving or feeling unworthy. The most desperately sort stoops where at as high as the tower could be built and as not to lose there position the higher the tower got and the more that the leaders defended there position upon their stoop and the higher the tower become towards the heavens. Until it, all fell down and they altogether blamed our own existence creator.

Saying things like if our own existence creator has all the answers and knows all, why wasn't something or anything done about it before this happened and it still goes on today in all religions and beliefs and within the scientists tree of monkeys while the majority of people, still force a big stick into our existence creators hand or not to have a creator at all.

So a World Wide Unemployment Benefits with free medical is possible while the united nations at least give out free contraception as we are all at the mercy of the likes of an Asian dictator that now has a bomb or two to play the game of insanity with the rest of the world leaders and now lets all have fathead Albert's E=MC2 toys of insanity from the likes of Africa or how about South America all pointing at the Statue of Liberty while we can still ask what about the big fat asteroid in 2880 on it's way.
https://academic.oup.com...

But that's not cool as my children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children just may still be around lets f$cking hope shall we.
JavaScriptCoder

Con

Do I honestly have to argue that this is about Worldwide Unemployment Benefits and why they should/should not be implemented? Please stay on topic. You can message off-topic communications to be me personally, and I can reply. Thank you.

Perhaps one sentence sums it up best: When you give out free money, you inherently make that money less valuable... which means you have to make more money, which means you make that money less valuable, and ad nauseaum. See for example post WWI:

http://www.usagold.com...

So either you end up paying 5-20% extra on your income tax or going with less coverage or going into debt. Your choice. America is 21.2 trillion in debt just from paying its ordinary bills. And BTW, before Australia got its brand of republicanism from us, you got governed by your "people within positions of power are either narcissists, sociopaths or f$cking power hungry ego maniacs" without safeguards. Yes, go back to that age.

(Off-topic)
*Anyways, you are either criticizing yourself for being part of that group of "either narcissists, sociopaths or f$cking power hungry ego maniacs" or you are admitting you have no position of power whatsoever. So either you can change things and you're not willing to, or you're powerless. Either one isn't the best.
Debate Round No. 3
2far4u2CharlesDarwin

Pro

https://thenewdaily.com.au...

As we here in Australia pay 27% of our income below $1000 per week in tax and then there's 10% GST on want's not needs as to say even more on fuel and beer and cigarettes, all money earned over $1000 per week you it's 50% tax rate and guess what we Australians don't give a f#ck if we do because that's the price we pay for living in this lucky country where we don't feel like heartless f#cking seppo's that let there own people die in the streets or off to jail goal tale your pick to stay alive and work as slaves to make the rich wealthier and to impossibly make your country safer. But as sad as it is we are following your idiotic rule of enterprising off a privatized prison system as the poor man cocaine ice epidemic is out of control. F#cking profiteering off an others misery must be the American way I suppose.

Every American that I have meet here in Australia doesn't want to go back to your country of misery. So they find some Australian women to marry and stay. I do wonder why that is stupid is as stupid does?
JavaScriptCoder

Con

If you want to continue insulting my country (that thing with borders defined by random people and usually unnatural), please don't do so debating here. You have a sampling bias, because if you meet an "American" permanently residing in Australia, they're 100% Australian and nothing else. Go to America, find an Australian, and ask if they want to go back to their country. They will say no. Deal with it. We already have good enough national unemployment.

https://www.mja.com.au...
"As the poor man cocaine ice epidemic is out of control" speak for your own country, overdose deaths have doubled since 2005. If that's your definition of winning...
Debate Round No. 4
2far4u2CharlesDarwin

Pro

Are you truly going with that dribble honestly? https://www.mja.com.au......
"As the poor man cocaine ice epidemic is out of control" speak for your own country, overdose deaths have doubled since 2005. If that's your definition of winning...

http://www.debate.org...
JavaScriptCoder

Con

I am so done arguing with you about what my country is good at and whether my country is hypocritical. As far as I can see, you think Australia's unemployment benefits is great, and I think USA's unemployment benefits are great, so what's more to argue? If residents of their own country are happy with their own benefits, then isn't that enough?

Anyways, nice arguing with you. Again, thanks for creating this debate. Let the voters decide who is right.
JSC
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 3 weeks ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
we also have GST 10% on want's but not needs. We have more consumer affair alterations on the way yes much more as the realization of our own insects not the existence creators robotic insects but our robots as we become our own existence creators of a species that take a head from one and put it upon another and splice DNA chains to master the elitists of a continuous tomorrow where body parts will have bar codes and people will sell there children to the highest bidder not for slavery but for a new body to out a head upon.

I do wonder if there own children would pay the ultimate price for there mum and dad?
Maybe there a whole flock of virgins awaiting as a reward for such a unadulterated manipulation of a selfless but inhumane endeavor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Posted by Negotiate 4 weeks ago
Negotiate
Maybe I am just too ignorant, but I am confused on this tax rate you are claiming- the tax rate for Australia is a certain amount of cents for every dollar above a given amount and, except for the first tax bracket, going up for each following tax bracket. There is also a set amount of tax for each tax bracket- except for the first two- that you must pay.

I stand by my paradocial ad for Socialism. What you/ your government are proposing is a Socialist idea, and as far as I can tell, more are to come for Australia.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 4 weeks ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
Here in Australia we pay 30% in tax up to $1000 gross and then it's 50% and that is the price that we pay to live in the luckiest country in the world. We have free medical and an unemployment system that we are considering making it mandatory for all that live here.

And we are happy to do so as that is the price of freedom.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 4 weeks ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
The robots as they do already.
Posted by 2far4u2CharlesDarwin 4 weeks ago
2far4u2CharlesDarwin
Needs are mandatory and want's are paid for by working and all are taxed at the same rate. So all wants are GST 15% for all. This would pay for the mandatory unemployment benefits system.
40% tax on working incomes. So if you want a car work for it and pay 15% GST for fuel and the car. If you want to take go out and have some fun 15% on GTS. The list goes on. Get rid of local government and have only federal and the community council decides to purpose allocated moneys.
Posted by dukeofpanda 4 weeks ago
dukeofpanda
Who is gonna fix the robots? Or design the robots to accomplish progressively more complex tasks?
Posted by Negotiate 4 weeks ago
Negotiate
Up Next: Free college tuition for everyone!

And if that doesn't get you psyched up for Socialism, we'll throw in free healthcare for everyone TOO!

Forget the genocides, the poverty, and the failure rates- this time, Socialism is going to be so much "bigger, badder, AND better!" Buy now for the "low, low" price of a free market!
No votes have been placed for this debate.