The Instigator
MRAAJ.evil
Pro (for)
The Contender
Septune
Con (against)

Would You Become A Sell Out? :'Everyone Has a Price'.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2018 Category: Society
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 105 times Debate No: 106634
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

MRAAJ.evil

Pro

Much like how the devil tried to tempt Jesus, I want to know...

Would you rather spend your entire life fighting your demons, trying to make a life for yourself? , or take money and 'sell your soul' in return for worldly pleasures so to speak. There are many pros and cons to both, that's why it's such an interesting moral dilemma.

To make things interesting, I'll let my opponent take first choice, (s)he can either defend selling out or defend integrity. And i will just argue with you for arguments sake depending on your selected decision^. Furthermore in the comments, people can state their opinions, eg tell us what their sell out price is. Of course there are a variety of factors such as living conditions and health.

^=To maintain impartiality, at the end I'll reveal my true stance on this issue, ie if I'm willing to sell out or not, but for an early indication, check my main profile MRAAJ, if you want to see what kind of person I'm.)
Septune

Con

This is a novel topic and I'm happy to accept. I thank my opponent for posting something interesting.

I'll start by stating that I'll be arguing for "selling out". Before we jump into the arguments, I'd like to present the assumptions that I'll be basing my arguments on. The opponent did not state the goal of this debate in any over-specific way but rather conveyed the general idea of what we'll be doing. I'll lay out some specifics. If the opponent disagrees with these, they can be modified.

Assumptions

I'll assume that "selling out" refers to actions lacking integrity. The opponent states that I can "either defend selling out or defend integrity". Because he put these two terms in direct opposition, this seems a reasonable assumption.

Further, I'll assume that my role (since I'm defending "selling out") is to present a compelling argument that it is in the best interest of humans that we commit actions lacking integrity. Of course, I'm not claiming my burden is to prove that there exists at least one instance where it is in someone's best interest to act in a way lacking integrity -- that is too easy and is not fair to the opponent. I assume I must prove something much stronger: That it is in the best interest of people to regularly commit acts which lack integrity. A one-off is not enough; people must continuously and knowing carry out acts which go directly against the definition of integrity.

Speaking of integrity, I'm assuming we're using the usual definition: "first adherence to a code of moral or artistic values". [1] (Don't worry, I'm also assuming we aren't talking about adherence to artistic values. I'm not going for a semantics argument here.)

Finally, I'm assuming my opponent's burden is to present an argument proving that it is in humans' best interest to mostly avoid acts with lack integrity, and instead try to maintain their integrity most of the time.

With all that done, let's move into my arguments.

Arguments

1. Lying is an act which lacks integrity, in almost all cases.

This first point is perhaps the easiest to accept at face value, but it contributes to the rest of my argument, so I need to present it. Given that acting with integrity means acting in adherence to moral principles and that nearly every moral system ever conceived includes lying as a "no-no", it can be concluded that lying lacks integrity.

The only exception here is when the lie is done with the intention of avoiding a situation in which an even more immoral act is expected to happen. For instance, lying to protect a loved one from being physically hurt.

2. Humans lie all the time.

Humans regularly tell lies, most often in situations where there is no apparent moral justification for doing so. A 2002 study by the University of Michigan [2] found that some 60% of adults studied lied during a ten-minute conversation with a peer. What's more, an average of three lies was told during the conversation. A different researcher found [2] that at least 86% of people lie to their parents, 75% to their friends, and 69% to their spouses. At least 90% of people lie on their online dating profile (of those with an online dating profile.)

We conclude that people lie often. They lie to their loved ones, they lie to strangers, and (as we will soon find out), they lie to themselves.

3. On average, lying does more good than harm.

This is the meat of my argument. Upon demonstrating this, we have connected the dots and proved that regularly acting without integrity (lying, in this argument's case) on a regular basis is good for humanity.

According to Del Paulhus, a professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia, people regularly lie to themselves and rarely with bad intentions. [3] Robert Trivers (same source) says, "Believing we are more talented or intelligent than we really are can help influence and win over others." He refers to an example of an executive who lies to himself by telling himself that he is a great public speaker. Trivers notes that this actually helps the executive be a better speaker. Merely by lying to ourselves about having a skill we can actually become better at that skill.

A different study [3] found that women who were asked to trace out sketches of their bodies on a larch piece of paper while being read a story about dating were significantly more likely to trace out a thinner-than-actual figure, as compared to women being read a story about architecture. By thinking about the prospect of dating (and the stuff which follows, such as mating), women adopted a better body image. A 2002 study [4] found that people who were more confident in themselves came off as confident to their partners, which had the effect increasing romantic attraction.

Just as self-deception helps improve confidence and ability, deceiving others is often positive. Researchers found [5] that lies can often serve as a "harmless social lubricant" which allows people to better get along and collaborate. They conclude that our social lives could "collapse" under the weight of constant honesty.

Our Conclusion

We have found that lying is an act lacking integrity (selling out), that people regularly lie, and that lies are often a good thing. People are more successful, have more confidence, and are more able to socially connect with and work with others by lying. This self-deception and these "little white lies" are the foundation of how humans operate, individually and socially.

The reason why this lacks integrity, beyond a simple definitional analysis, is that one can imagine a world in which lying is rarely necessary. A world where people are confident about themselves because they have realistic expectations and a firm understanding of self. A world where we do not have to lie to fit in with others because those others are open to understanding someone's true self without bias and without judgment.

That might be a great world, but it is not the real world. If we could magically stop lying, the very fabric of society as we know would collapse. It would be hard to keep friends, businesses would shut down because no one could get along, relationships would be harder to maintain and people would find themselves depressed from the crushing realization of who they really are.

Lying lacks integrity and it is, on balance, good for humanity. We must conclude that, in the case of lying, selling out is generally the way to go.

I look forward to my opponent's response.

Footnote

It should be noted that I have not claimed that all lies are good, nor is it my burden to claim such a thing. I am merely showing that it is good for people to regularly lie, but not in all cases and not about all things. One can easily imagine a situation where lying is harmful, as these are the lies which are most often reported to us and that we get so passionately frustrated with.

We rarely hear about all the healthy lies we tell and have to dig through psychology journals to find such praise, likely for the exact reason that lying does lack integrity and that it has become stigmatized by almost every community on the planet.

Sources:
[1] - https://www.merriam-webster.com...
[2] - http://mentalfloss.com...
[3] - https://www.wsj.com...
[4] - http://www.spsp.org...
[5] - https://www.psychologytoday.com...
Debate Round No. 1
MRAAJ.evil

Pro

Sincere apologies bro, I do not have time for this debate at the moment, I will restart it at another time and resend it to you. At present, however I do have time for a quick short debate if you are still interested in debating me in the now.
Septune

Con

I'm pretty poor at short debates. Maybe when you have time we can finish this one.

Anyway, assumably this is a forfeit. If you just let the time run out, it will permanently float in Unresolved Forfeit Land, which may be preferable for you.
Debate Round No. 2
MRAAJ.evil

Pro

Alright cool
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by MRAAJ.evil 1 week ago
MRAAJ.evil
openly '
Posted by MRAAJ.evil 1 week ago
MRAAJ.evil
As in accept the cards dealt by the universe so to speak, and try to rectify past wrongs, or sell out. A perfect example of a sellout would be someone opening willing to join the drug cartel trade for instance. Conversely, examples of perfect integrity include nuns or monks, as they will never sell out. Both have different desires, needs, live conditions, and so on. It's about where /how you react to the cards dealt, that's what makes this such an intriguing proposition.
Posted by Yes-JustAHighSchooler 1 week ago
Yes-JustAHighSchooler
Fighting your demons as in trying to be morally upright for your whole life? Or did I interpret that wrong...
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