The Instigator
TazM
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
lolzors93
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points

Would religion as law establish a better society?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TazM
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 401 times Debate No: 48966
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

TazM

Con

Society today is not a fit place. Looking at Saudi Arabia, their society's behavior has more morals as America, because of Sharia law. Would establishing something similar in the US create a better society? No. America is not a conformist country and therefore, would not take that kind of change with a grain of salt. We'd have to establish a new leader, new form of leadership, different laws, and a religion to live under. It would only cause more rebellion and problems before it made a positive impact, that's saying if it even does.
lolzors93

Pro

Really, this argument simply reduces to whether Christianity is true or not.

Christianity claims that people are totally deprived. What this means is that all people, those in a carnal state of man, are incapable of doing any good: evil is prevalent in all states of life. This is not equivalent to utter depravity, which is an application of the degree of evil. A person who murders his neighbor has done more evil than a person who speeds, though they are both evil.

From this basis of everyone in a natural state of man being totally evil, though not utterly evil, the only way one can do good is for one to become a Christian. Christ died on the cross for the salvation of the wicked. In this, those who have faith in Him are in union to Him, being attached to His death and also to His life. We (i.e. all Christians) have died the death that we deserve for the evil that we have done; we have also been given new life in the Spirit, having been born again.

Good trees only bear good fruit, and bad trees only bear bad fruit. Christians have a new nature within them, a nature of the Spirit of God. This true self, and inner self, is what makes any person capable of doing any sort of good deed. Moreover, the Spirit imparts wisdom from God unto us, giving us godly knowledge and understanding.

Hence, with all this having been said, what seems most logical is if the government is run by a group of Christians. They will bear good fruit in their inner being, and they will be able to run the government justly and fairly. All other religions do not work because they are false religions, not truly having God conquer their carnal nature of evil. Thus, let us have God rule the nation. This is the wisest and most logical thing to believe in. The only thing that can counter this is to say that the Christian God is not real; for if He is real, then everything I have said follows logically.
Debate Round No. 1
TazM

Con

Christianity often reports false prophets. How would America know that it was being led safely into the Promised Land? And by Authentic leaders and prophets no doubt. Even if this country was sure about its leaders, there are over 75 religions and a good chunk of these religions are polytheistic (worship more than one deity). When we as Christians accept this fact, we will do everything we can to force change. Forcing change and increases the lack of will yo change which causes more problems. This would not only be an issue if Christian leaders were to take charge, but any other religion because it is against the followers beliefs to worship any other deity or to deny their lord in the face of the public . Real followers will stick with their religion through and through, causing issues.
lolzors93

Pro

***Christianity often reports false prophets. How would America know that it was being led safely into the Promised Land? And by Authentic leaders and prophets no doubt. Even if this country was sure about its leaders, there are over 75 religions and a good chunk of these religions are polytheistic (worship more than one deity). When we as Christians accept this fact, we will do everything we can to force change. Forcing change and increases the lack of will yo change which causes more problems. This would not only be an issue if Christian leaders were to take charge, but any other religion because it is against the followers beliefs to worship any other deity or to deny their lord in the face of the public . Real followers will stick with their religion through and through, causing issues.***

No one can change a person's beliefs to Christianity, except God. Outside of Biblical Christianity, people wander from one religion to another until they find something that fits their own selves the best. This is irrelevant to whether or not Christianity, if it were to be law, would establish a better society. The only people who do good are Christians. If this premise is true, then a Christian nation would be the best nation.
Debate Round No. 2
TazM

Con

TazM forfeited this round.
lolzors93

Pro

lolzors93 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
TazM

Con

You may say that Christianity would provide the best religion to govern the United States. Yes, it is believe that Christians are the only people who do good, but that only further proves my point. With a largely non-Christian nation, we'd have a country almost full of do-badders, roaming the earth. Also, in the Bible, it seems that God has no issue with women being raped, yet rape is against most morals. People would have to change their morals, and be trained to change their morals as well as their children s. Law would simply no be the same, and I doubt that this would restore order. America is a stubborn nation, and with moral change comes confusion, and with confusion, there is chaos.
lolzors93

Pro

You may say that Christianity would provide the best religion to govern the United States. Yes, it is believe that Christians are the only people who do good, but that only further proves my point. With a largely non-Christian nation, we'd have a country almost full of do-badders, roaming the earth. Also, in the Bible, it seems that God has no issue with women being raped, yet rape is against most morals. People would have to change their morals, and be trained to change their morals as well as their children s. Law would simply no be the same, and I doubt that this would restore order. America is a stubborn nation, and with moral change comes confusion, and with confusion, there is chaos.

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For one, God does take issue with women being raped.
Second, this is an ontological debate, meaning that we are establishing whether a Christian nation would be better than a non-Christian nation. This is not a debate on a nation that is partly Christian. This is not a debate on how we are to know whether a nation is truly Christian. This is a debate on whether a Christian nation, one that is ontologically Christian, would be better than a non-Christian nation. If Christians necessarily do good, and no one can do good unless Christian, then it follows that if a nation is Christian, then the nation will be better, at least in the moral sense.
Debate Round No. 4
TazM

Con

" Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
And, if we try to become a Christian nation, there will obviously be those who refuse to conform. Even if they pretend to be Christians, there will be blasphemers, and since there will be many blasphemers , this will cause a large chunk of our nation to burn in hell. In order to safely even establish America as a religious nation, we would have to break the United States Constitution and many a mainly political person would be infuriated. Also, if America was known as an ONLY Christian nation, less tourists would come because many of our tourists are of different or no religion, some that do not even believe in ONE God. That would cause America to prophet less, which would mean a poorer countries. Christians often believe in the principle that if you can save a soul, then save it. And due to that belief, some Christian rulers may try to change the religion of others, especially leaders of countries and non conformists, therefore possibly ruining trade opportunities and making the US and even poorer nation.

To reiterate from my past arguments. The majority of the nation is not Christian, will not conform and could cause moral values to be completely warped. A Christian nation would not be a great nation. A Christian nation, especially in its early stages, would be like turning the US into Great Britain before the Revolutionary War, a strict nation full of silent anger and eventually, some are going to leave and some are going to fight.
lolzors93

Pro

"Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don"t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don"t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
And, if we try to become a Christian nation, there will obviously be those who refuse to conform. Even if they pretend to be Christians, there will be blasphemers, and since there will be many blasphemers , this will cause a large chunk of our nation to burn in hell.
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This is not an argument for fake Christians. This is an argument for if the nation were to actually be a Christian nation.
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In order to safely even establish America as a religious nation, we would have to break the United States Constitution and many a mainly political person would be infuriated.
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This is not an argument about how to establish a Christian nation. This is an argument about whether one would be a better nation.
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Also, if America was known as an ONLY Christian nation, less tourists would come because many of our tourists are of different or no religion, some that do not even believe in ONE God. That would cause America to prophet less, which would mean a poorer countries.
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Is this relevant to the nation being better?
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Christians often believe in the principle that if you can save a soul, then save it. And due to that belief, some Christian rulers may try to change the religion of others, especially leaders of countries and non conformists, therefore possibly ruining trade opportunities and making the US and even poorer nation.
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This is not a debate about what ifs. This is a debate as to whether or not an actual Christian nation would be better.
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To reiterate from my past arguments. The majority of the nation is not Christian, will not conform and could cause moral values to be completely warped. A Christian nation would not be a great nation. A Christian nation, especially in its early stages, would be like turning the US into Great Britain before the Revolutionary War, a strict nation full of silent anger and eventually, some are going to leave and some are going to fight.
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The main premise of my argument has yet to be challenged, namely that good trees (i.e. those who are of God) only bear good fruit, and that bad trees (i.e. those who are not of God) only bear bad fruit. If this is the case, then a Christian nation will necessarily be better.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by TazM 2 years ago
TazM
@lolzors93 your reply was well thought and well written. This will be interesting and highly enjoyable.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Seeginomikata 2 years ago
Seeginomikata
TazMlolzors93Tied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's case is built on the philosophical points of how well a perfect religious society would function. Con brought up that this point of view has an undeniable disconnect from reality, where things are not perfect. Con's arguments show that attempting to enforce religious morality in public life would be disastrous. Con Spelling and grammar was horrifying. No sourcing on either side.