The Instigator
David12N
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
Jupiter2
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points

Would the world be a much better place without religion

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
David12N
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/16/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 531 times Debate No: 73615
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (2)

 

David12N

Con

No I don't think so. The biggest killers in the world are things like chronic disease, poverty, car accidents and depression and these would all still be there without religion. The old argument that most wars are caused by religion is just not true. I would also argue there would probably be less volunteering and donations to charity if religion did not exist which would be a bad thing.
Jupiter2

Pro

I accept. I want to define several terms for you below:

better (adj.) - more appropriate, advantageous, or well advised.
religion (n.) - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

I will refrain from quoting scripture. I have tried to avoid as many "God Exists" debates as possible. Before I begin let me get this out of the way. I AM NOT AN ATHEIST. I come from a religious family just as you might or anyone else. I go to temples to worship, and pray whenever I can. And, so I will not be using my beliefs as my argument.

If I were to take this argument literally, from a moral and economic (notice I did not say spiritual or biblical) point of view, religion has done more harm. Religion has orchestrated some of the biggest wars, notably the Crusades. The following excerpt is from Britannica Encyclopedia:

"It is particularly interesting to note that the Council of Clermont, at which Urban II called for the First Crusade (1095), renewed and generalized the Peace of God. It may seem paradoxical that a council both promulgated peace and officially sanctioned war, but the peace movement was designed to protect those in distress, and a strong element of the Crusade was the idea of giving aid to fellow Christians in the East. Tied to this idea was the notion that war to defend Christendom was not only a justifiable undertaking but a holy work and therefore pleasing to God"

In other words, the 'Holy Wars' that ensued were a result of salvation. You could have killed several hundred people, committed adultery, or steal, but, by fighting in the Crusades, you were forgiven. Not by God, but by religion. God never gave you his permission to slaughter hundreds of thousands of people. Also, this brings up a very important position: Religion mandates a God, but God does not mandate there be a religion. I mean, who wrote the Bible, your Koran, bhagavad gita? GOD? No, it was us, humans. It was your Moses, your Mohammad, etc.

I mean, for God"s sake, what about ISIS? Yemen? (because that place has become a hellhole) I don"t want to discuss religion and foreign policy, but doesn"t it boil down to Sunnis killing Shiites? How many people dead because of them? Now, I know what they"re doing is insane and wrong, but religion is the reason for the problems in the middle east.

http://addictivelists.com...

Here. That is a list of the biggest religious wars fought. How could you economically, or morally, justify that was good? You have a massive reduction in population, there is basically few people left. Of those remaining, their nominal wages skyrocket. It"s terrible.

Slavery. Ah, yes. Let us make a logical argument of the following excerpt:

By the reign of Pope Zacharias (741-752), Venice had established a thriving slave trade . . .when the sale of Christians to Muslims was banned (pactum Lotharii [13]), the Venetians began to sell Slavs and other Eastern European non-Christian slaves in greater numbers.

Source: Slavery in mideval Europe, Wikipedia
"Selling Christians as slaves is banned?? Let"s sell Non-Christians instead!". Slavery is wrong, but PICKING what religious groups to sell? If that is not psychotic and evidence enough that the world would be better without religion, I wouldn"t know what is.

More arguments to come.
Debate Round No. 1
David12N

Con

Thanks for accepting.

I am arguing that most wars including most of the top ten deadliest wars {and the Crusades are not one of them based on death-toll} would still have occurred without religion and the majority of all wars would still have occurred. Of course the death and suffering from religious wars was and is bad. No doubt the Middle-East is an example of the bad religion can do. It should be noted that the reason the conflicts have not be solved may be more political rather than religious in the Middle-East. An argument made by Tony Blair. The Congo crisis which has resulted in more deaths than from ISIS was not caused by religion. So it is not all about religious wars in Africa.

Religious people selling slaves is not good but slavery would have existed without religion. There are more slaves today than there has ever been in history and the biggest drivers of that are not religious but things like poverty and lack of economic opportunity. According to the United Nations. It should also be noted that Christians supported slavery but there were Christians that also used religion to argue against slavery during the trans-Atlantic slave trade. There are examples throughout history of slavery unrelated to religion included in your link.

Just so we are clear. My position is that the argument the world would be a much better place {much less suffering, etc} without religion is factually incorrect. The claim {from others} that most wars are religious suggests that without religion there would have been much more peace in the world and that is just not the case. I am sorry if I misunderstood your slavery reference but I argue that religion {and the Biblical texts that support it} are not the main reasons we have slavery today and were not the only reasons we had slavery in the past.
Jupiter2

Pro

Jupiter2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
David12N

Con

It was nice debating with you.
Jupiter2

Pro

Jupiter2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
David12NJupiter2Tied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
David12NJupiter2Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Ff