The Instigator
TN05
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Gandalf_123
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Xbox One's downsides outweigh its benefits

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/10/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,514 times Debate No: 34677
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

TN05

Pro

The resolution of this debate is simple - the downsides of Xbox One outweight its benefits. I will be arguing affirmative. The rules are:

1. Burden of proof is shared. Each side must prove their case.
2. Forfeiture of any round by either side results in a victory for the other side.
3. First round is for acceptance.
4. Round 2 is for opening arguments only.
5. Round 3 is a clash round. You can only rebut the arguments the opponent made in round 2, and you may not introduce new arguments.
6. Round 4 is for closing arguments. You can rebut arguments made in round 3 and sum up your case.
Gandalf_123

Con

I believe I will find arguments in favor of Xbox One that will by far outshine the negative opinion that has been formed by the restrictions on the platform. Therefore I will be taking the con side of this argument. Good luck and let's have a good debate.
Debate Round No. 1
TN05

Pro

First off, I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. Good luck to us both!

To begin, my argument will rest on four main points, each of which is a major issue that the Xbox One (which I will call the 'Xbone' to save space) has: required online connection, digital rights management (DRM), always-on Kinect, and price.

The first issue, required online access, is a major downside for the Xbone. As we all know at this point, the Xbone requires you to check in online at least once every 24 hours. If you do not do that, you will not be able to even play offline, single-player games. This online connection is required to be broadband, with a preferred minimum rate of 1.5 Mbps. According to TechNewsDaily, 1.5 Mbps is twice the speed that most broadband users receive. They also note that "Interestingly, although not checking in will prevent you from gaming, it will not cut off your Blu-ray or TV access, which should give you some idea of the Xbox One’s priorities.".[1] Further, broadband itself is actually not as common as you might think - 119 million Americans do not have broadband access, according to the FCC.[2] Further, there are also major issues with the always online aspect from Microsoft's end - let's say a hacker breaks into the Xbone servers. When this happened to Sony, they had to shut online off for 24 days - with the Xbone, you would not be able to play any games for nearly a month! Or, when Microsoft releases a new system in 7-8 years, they could force you to switch by shutting off the Xbone servers. Simply put, this is unacceptable.

The second issue, digital rights management (DRM), is even worse than the first. Microsoft wants to control where, when, and how you play your games. Because the discs become worthless after installation, you cannot exercise your right to lend, trade, or sell your game. This pre-empts the doctorine of first sale, a long-standing copyright rule that establishes that when you buy a copyrighted work, you own it. You have the right to do keep it for yourself, lend it, or sell that copy to someone else, at which point you have no more right to that copy. On the other hand, your right to that work only extends to that copy, and you can’t make copies of the book and sell them to other people.

To give an example, if you go to the store and buy a new book, it is your book. You can do what you want with it - you can keep it for as long as you want, lend it to a friend, or sell it. The publishing company cannot tell you when you can read it, where you can read it, or who you can sell it to. That sounds pretty fair, and it is very fair - both sides are protected. Unfortunately, that just isn’t good enough for publishing companies, who want to get paid whenever anyone buys a game, new or used, as opposed to when someone buys it new. This is a violation of your rights as a consumer, and a distortion of copyright law, because the point of copyright law is encourage production of new, quality works, not to make publishing companies as much money as possible.

The third issue is Kinect. Aside from my disdain for 'video games' with no controllers, Kinect is always on. Although Microsoft says that the Kinect is only listening for the phrase 'Xbox On', Microsoft has been a member of PRISM (the NSA surveillance program) since 2007, when they were the first major internet company to join it.[4] Additionally, Microsoft has filed patents to limit the usage of apps to a certain number of people, meaning if you bring your extended family over to your house to watch a movie on Netflix, Kinect could theoretically pull the plug for having too many people in the room.[5] This is just more evidence of how Xbone is designed to harm the consumer and their rights.

The final issue I will raise is price. Xbone costs $499 US dollars, a full $100 above the Sony Playstation 4 and $150 more than Nintendo's Wii U. To warrant that price, Xbone needs to be far-and-above better than the competition - unfortunately, it is not. None of the other consoles have always-online, DRM, or spying cameras. Wii U offers graphics that are equal or better than those of the Xbox 360 (a fantastic console), and PS4's graphical capacity actually beats Xbone![6] Further, PS4 does not require you to purchase their online package in order to access online apps like Netflix or Hulu or streaming services, and PS4 is region-free - Xbone requires you to purchase their online to access apps and streaming, and is region-locked.[7] Quite simply, why would I want to pay more for a product that violates my rightsand is infererior to the competition?

To sum up - Xbone has very major concerns on all fronts, and is also the most expensive console out there. It's graphical capacity is inferior to PS4, and its DRM and online requirements are very restrictive. These are major downsides, and cannot be made up by any upside.

References:
1. http://www.technewsdaily.com...
2. http://arstechnica.com...
3. http://en.wikipedia.org...
4. http://www.usatoday.com...
5. http://kotaku.com...
6. http://www.christiantoday.com...
7. http://www.cinemablend.com...
Gandalf_123

Con

I will show that Xbox One has a lot of features that make it a good console at launch and I will also show that concerns about the Xbox One DRM are not going to translate to an actual bad experience for the early buyers of the console or into a massive sway towards PS4 or other platforms.

XO has good day one and launch titles not coming ever or soon to other platforms[XO_exclusives]: day one: Ryse: Son of Rome, Dead Rising 3, Forza 5, Killer Instinct; launch window: Titanfall, Halo, Quantum Break, Project Spark. That is besides the better visuals and the countless other games coming to the platform that would differentiate it from any other platform except PS4 and high end PC.

XO also is a good platform to develop for, having adopted an x86 CPU with similar performance to PS4[simple_xbox_hardware]. Microsoft is also a lot more experienced in creating development tools than Sony as John Carmack has said in the past[xbox_tools_better]. This means that developers will find it easy to develop for XO and the other platforms will not gain an edge in this regard.

I will present an example of huge internet backlash that has not influenced most buyer's and players opinion about a game. The game is Battlefield Heroes that launched with a free to play with an item store. It later increased it's prices beyond most players ability to purchase most items for use from an hour's worth of gameplay daily. That created a huge backlash on the internet at the time. But the players continued to play the game and revenues increased to sustain the continued operation of the game[backlash_fallacies].

XO is also coming at the same time as it's primary rival the PS4[XO_on_time_launch]. It will not be at a disadvantage like the PS3 that launched with a year's worth of games less.

One platform registering a lot of growth is the mobile platform. Resale of apps in the Iphone App Store and the Android Marketplace are completely forbidden as opposed to XO which has a better policy in this regard[mobile_apps_non_resalable]. That has not stopped the release of games far more expensive than the 99 cent usual price on mobile.

As we speak there is confidence by PC gamers in DRM done right. The platform of choice for many PC gamers that buy their games digitally is Steam. It has a strict DRM policy of 'phoning' home every two weeks[steam_drm_now]. At launch it had to deal with a backlash in the media about that restriction of not playing your games when you are not connected to the internet. By comparison when there was news about Dark Souls coming to PC a community of potential buyers appeared to back the Steam platform instead of the Windows Live platform of digital distribution[dark_souls_pro_steam_petition].

Microsoft's Xbox One will live or die by the quality of the DRM in XO, so they will push the quality assurance of the DRM involved to much higher levels than what was going on in Windows Live. They also have an experience in running the Xbox Live and Windows Live platforms for a very long time now, like Valve had with Steam in the above example. Like Windows 7 was a stable platform compared to Windows Vista, so should Xbox One be a stable platform without major issues at launch that would transform the initial media backlash into a secondary disaster confirmation backlash when the console actually launches and ends up in actual customer usage[microsoft_learns_from_experience].

[XO_exclusives] http://www.geek.com...
[XO_on_time_launch] http://www.theverge.com...
[simple_xbox_hardware] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[xbox_tools_better] http://arstechnica.com...
[backlash_fallacies] http://www.joystiq.com...
[mobile_apps_non_resalable] http://www.avvo.com...
[steam_drm_now] http://steamcommunity.com...
[dark_souls_pro_steam_petition] https://www.change.org...
[microsoft_learns_from_experience] http://apcmag.com...
Debate Round No. 2
TN05

Pro

"XO has good day one and launch titles not coming ever or soon to other platforms[XO_exclusives]: day one: Ryse: Son of Rome, Dead Rising 3, Forza 5, Killer Instinct; launch window: Titanfall, Halo, Quantum Break, Project Spark. That is besides the better visuals and the countless other games coming to the platform that would differentiate it from any other platform except PS4 and high end PC"

I'm not going to argue on games at this point, because speculating on them seems a bit premature. However, it has been clearly established that, although Xbone is more powerful than Xbox 360, it is less powerful than PS4. According to Eurogamer, "PlayStation 4's 18 CU graphics core has 50 per cent more raw power than the GPU in the new Microsoft console".[1]

"XO also is a good platform to develop for, having adopted an x86 CPU with similar performance to PS4[simple_xbox_hardware]. Microsoft is also a lot more experienced in creating development tools than Sony as John Carmack has said in the past[xbox_tools_better]. This means that developers will find it easy to develop for XO and the other platforms will not gain an edge in this regard."

Once again, this is a pure software issue. However, one thing to note is that Microsoft is actually only friendly to developers from major studios. While PS4 allows indie developers to self-publish, Xbone does not.[2]

"I will present an example of huge internet backlash that has not influenced most buyer's and players opinion about a game. The game is Battlefield Heroes that launched with a free to play with an item store. It later increased it's prices beyond most players ability to purchase most items for use from an hour's worth of gameplay daily. That created a huge backlash on the internet at the time. But the players continued to play the game and revenues increased to sustain the continued operation of the game[backlash_fallacies]. XO is also coming at the same time as it's primary rival the PS4[XO_on_time_launch]. It will not be at a disadvantage like the PS3 that launched with a year's worth of games less."

Once again, software issue. The article says the base that complained about the game was only 2% of all people who played it; however, virtually every major poll of gamers has shown support for PS4 over Xbone by significant margins - as much as 94% of all gamers in some polls.[3] Forbes notes that "[$499 USD] is a price aimed directly at the core gaming community. Hardcore gamers are the only people who spend that much money on new consoles — they’re the ones who need to experience the biggest, newest games, no matter what the cost, and they’re the ones who can prop up a system until it grabs a large enough install base. But they’re also the people who have been most vocal about their displeasure with Microsoft Xbox One’s used games policies.[4] In other words, Microsoft is screwed because they have alienated the core gamer base and have made the price of the console one which will market primarily to hardcore gamers.

"One platform registering a lot of growth is the mobile platform. Resale of apps in the Iphone App Store and the Android Marketplace are completely forbidden as opposed to XO which has a better policy in this regard[mobile_apps_non_resalable]. That has not stopped the release of games far more expensive than the 99 cent usual price on mobile."

Mobile growth is interesting in that regard, but a 99 cent app is a lot less expensive than a $60 USD game. If I pay $60 for something, I want to own it - not rent it indefinately - and most gamers seem to agree with me.

"As we speak there is confidence by PC gamers in DRM done right. The platform of choice for many PC gamers that buy their games digitally is Steam. It has a strict DRM policy of 'phoning' home every two weeks[steam_drm_now]. At launch it had to deal with a backlash in the media about that restriction of not playing your games when you are not connected to the internet. By comparison when there was news about Dark Souls coming to PC a community of potential buyers appeared to back the Steam platform instead of the Windows Live platform of digital distribution[dark_souls_pro_steam_petition]."

I don't use Steam, but, unlike Xbone, it allows you to play Steam games on multiple machines in return for the DRM limitations. Its still a bad deal, but at least it provides you something for it. On Xbone, you can only play games you have bought on the Xbone - not, say, Windows 8, Windows Phone, and Surface Tablet. Additionally, Steam is actually trying to eliminate the 'authentication period' for all games (meaning they are aiming for an indefinate offline mode[6]) still, two weeks is far less restrictive than the one-day login requirement for Xbox. Look at it this way - if the Steam servers crash, there is far more time for them to be fixed before you can't play games on it. Using the worst-case Sony scenario - 24 days - you would have 14 days of gaming on Steam, meaning ten days with no gaming, as opposed to only one day of gaming on Xbone, meaning 23 days with no gaming. Of course, both of these are far more restrictive than PS4 and Wii U, which let you play games whenever you want.

"Microsoft's Xbox One will live or die by the quality of the DRM in XO, so they will push the quality assurance of the DRM involved to much higher levels than what was going on in Windows Live. They also have an experience in running the Xbox Live and Windows Live platforms for a very long time now, like Valve had with Steam in the above example. Like Windows 7 was a stable platform compared to Windows Vista, so should Xbox One be a stable platform without major issues at launch that would transform the initial media backlash into a secondary disaster confirmation backlash when the console actually launches and ends up in actual customer usage[microsoft_learns_from_experience]."

As demonstrated above, Microsoft has a tremedous task ahead of them. They have to sell a high-priced, restrictive console with inferior graphics to the hardcore gamer audience, who are already pretty solidly against it. The problem with Xbone is not that it has a single very bad issue, it is that there are many bad issues that combine to make a very bad system. For example, let's say Xbone removes DRM and online checkin. You still have to deal with the price and the always-watching-you Kinect. If they lower the price, you still have to deal with DRM, Kinect, and online checkin. Can it be done? Sure. Sony's PS3 had a very bad launches, but it has rebounded to the point where it has out-shipped the 360.[8] But, as it stands right now, Xbone has its work cut out for it.

References:
1. http://www.eurogamer.net...
2. http://www.develop-online.net...
3. http://www.cinemablend.com...
4. http://www.forbes.com...
5. http://www.wired.com...
6. http://www.wired.com...
7. http://steamcommunity.com...
8. http://www.gamesindustry.biz...
Gandalf_123

Con

With regard to the quality of the connection required I highly doubt that all single player games on XO will have a high server backend requirement. Most will require only a limited connection for authenticating the system with the Xbox Live service and afterwards work with online features enabled without regard to connection speed. The other class of games that will require a high performance network connection are games mostly or totally focused on multiplayer. I also doubt that publishers will not create a limited features version of the game for gamers that only want to play singleplayer and do not have a very good internet connection. For example Forza 5 that will have online features and AI should in principle work without fast connection or any connection to servers. And Titanfall should also have such a reduced features version. But these two games and other like them are multiplayer focused and those players that don't have Xbox Live Gold and a very good internet connection would be at a loss of features anyway.

A second problem is the possibility of hacking to occur that would render the Microsoft servers unavailable. Xbox Live on XO should be a solid service done by a company with a lot of online services maintenance experience. Hackers attacking Microsoft had in time a lot more to gain from successfully hacking Microsoft platforms. From email services with Hotmail, Windows update servers to years of Xbox Live server maintenance Microsoft has delivered on security and stability. And that experience has only gotten better in time. That is by contrast to Sony with it's PSN outrageous security practices in the past. The PSN hack was Sony's Code Red virus. Microsoft has learned the security lesson long ago by having the Windows ecosystem and not gamers as it's guinea pigs. Another way of looking at things is considering the multiplayer games. Any game that provides multiplayer, be it an MMO, a racing game or an FPS, would completely lack any way of accessing that portion of the game with or without online authentication. That is exactly what happened with PSN where there was no online authentication for PS3 and multiplayer gamers where blocked out of playing online at all.

My understanding from the Microsoft E3 conference is that the DRM on XO is a way to check whether the game disc was soled at GameStop. Taking a large cut from the resales will put them at a severe disadvantage to Sony so they will not do that. And when it comes to countries that were not shown on the list of starting countries for XO that is clearly a case of Microsoft not wanting to market their product in that territories. That means that they should not have a bearing in this debate because we are talking about Microsoft's XO good vs bad features and not how they might be nonexistent in certain markets compared to PS4 and Wii U.

XO is an entertainment device that does not have access to work or leisure activities of it's user unless it is on and is actively inputing information. Fortunately there is the simple concept of shutting down a computer[simple_shutdown_no_tracking]. I doubt that would make XO not work for 24 hours after turning on. For that matter I doubt that using Playstation Network on PS3 or Xbox Live on Xbox360 is any safer.

Price is one issue that is most different between Sony and Microsoft when you look at it like a games box and you are part of the audience Microsoft is looking for. They are a corporation looking for profit and contends that it has good enough features for the console to warrant a 100$ price premium. The main difference to the PS4 is the existence of backend servers that will create added value now and in the future for players of games released on XO and the innovative Kinect driven and integrated interface. Those are distinguishing features that will make a difference besides the exclusive titles of each console. And it is the way Microsoft is driving the marketing at the moment. They are saying they are a little better than Sony and therefore deserve a little more money. This is a small premium to pay for a console on time, with good launch lineup and with it's own distinguishing features to bring to the gaming public.

PS Next time do a Microsoft vs Sony debate and not one Xbox One good vs bad features, that might make your arguments easier.

[simple_shutdown_no_tracking] https://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
TN05

Pro

Unfortunately, Microsoft has made it very clear a broadband connection is required for Xbone to properly function. Xbox Wire specifically states that "Because every Xbox One owner has a broadband connection, developers can create massive, persistent worlds that evolve even when you’re not playing".[1] This is, in the eyes of Microsoft, a key selling point for the console. As to the idea of a 'limited features' version, that is speculation and cannot be really confirmed or denied.

Just because a program has been solid in the past does not mean it cannot be breached, given the proper motivation. While you note the Sony online outage prevented online multiplayer from being accessed, the key difference with Xbone is that all gaming would be prevented from being accessed. You could still play any PS3 game offline during the outage, but with Xbone, under a similar circumstance, all gaming functionality would be lost. That is the issue - wheras an online outage on any other console would only affect online access, and online outage on Xbone would affect all access.

As to the GameStop bit, it is very clear the point of the Xbone DRM is to eliminate used game sales in all ways. If Microsoft has no intention of doing it, why include it? And excluded territories should have a bearing on this debate; it may not be a disandvantage to your or me, but it sure is to them.

XO is an entertainment device that does not have access to work or leisure activities of it's user unless it is on and is actively inputing information. Fortunately there is the simple concept of shutting down a computer[simple_shutdown_no_tracking]. I doubt that would make XO not work for 24 hours after turning on. For that matter I doubt that using Playstation Network on PS3 or Xbox Live on Xbox360 is any safer.

Once again, the 24-hour check is actually confirmed by Microsoft. It is a core feature of the Xbone DRM because it confirms all downloaded games meet Xbone requirements.

As for price, $499 is a lot to ask for any console, but with the bad features I mention, it is clear it is a much poorer product than Sony or Nintendo are offering. While you can mainly point at speculation (the games might be good, backend online might not be needed on all games, 24-hour countdown might not be real), I am giving facts - the price is higher, the console must have constant broadband internet, DRM is restrictive, and the Kinect is always on. Given the current facts, the only way to judge the console is clear - the Xbone has more downsides than benefits. As to your last comment, I am not anti-Microsoft or pro-Sony. I am first and foremost a Nintendo gamer. I own both the original Xbox (one of my favorite consoles) and the Xbox 360 (a very good console in its own right), and haven't owned a Sony console aside from the PSP and the original PlayStation. To me, the issue is not Sony v. Microsoft - it is of quality. A good way to judge downsides are to see what the rest of the market are doing, and no other console is utilizing the downsides of Xbone.

To conclude, I will first note arguments my opponent has not acknowledged or has ceded:
*1.5 Mbps is twice the speed most broadband users receive
*119 million Americans do not have broadband at all
*Microsoft could render your Xbone useless by shutting off the Xbone servers
*The first sale doctorine is a principle of copyright law
*Microsoft is a member of PRISM, and has been since 2007
*Microsoft has restrictive patents relating to Kinect, that could limit how many people can watch or participate in Xbone activities like watching Netflix
*Xbone is more expensive than PS4 and Wii U
*No other console has always online, DRM, or spy-cameras
*PS4 has a greater graphical capacity
*PS4 is region-free, while Xbone is region-locked

As is clear from my arguments and from the facts, the downsides of Xbone are tremendous. The DRM, online, Kinect, and price are all downides and inferior when compared to the competition consoles, the PS4 and Wii U. My opponent has not refuted these issues, but has attempted to make up for it with software value. Unfortunately, software is not proven at this point, but all of my issues are proven. Therefore, I would highly urge you to vote Pro.

References:
1. http://news.xbox.com...
Gandalf_123

Con

WARNING : DEBATE STARTED BEFORE MICROSOFT'S U TURN SO VOTE ACCORDING TO THE MERITS OF THE DEBATE

I believe I have made a good case for Microsoft's console having good features, good games and a lot of value for one buying the console, that would outweigh the downsides, including the stringent DRM rules and any resale control measures. That is also what many gamers consider, having preordered XO a little less than PS4 but not by much[XO_PS4_similar_preorders]. But my opponent considers I have ceded the argument in his favor on a truckload of issues, therefore I am inclined to do a step by step comment on all of those issues.

'1.5 Mbps is twice the speed most broadband users receive'
I stated before that for users with limited connectivity there should be a lot of single player games that do not force the user to have broadband connectivity just to play the game. Therefore I have not ceded this point. There will be also be few exclusive titles that will make full use of server connectivity for single player like Forza 5 or Titanfall, and gamers might choose XO over PS4 for multiplatform games considering the other online services.

'119 million Americans do not have broadband at all'
One bullet point too many considering the previous bullet point.

'Microsoft could render your Xbone useless by shutting off the Xbone servers'
Steam is the DRM done right I have put in my previous arguments. If Valve suddenly decides to shut down Steam and the last hard drive of the last computer where you had a game installed and playing by rewinding the clock dies than you lost access to that. And so is your Yahoo or Google or Microsoft email account. I am sure most of us in this debating consumers roll our own email servers considering problems that can occur with email.

'The first sale doctorine[as quoted] is a principle of copyright law'
Having even one games reseller like GameStop operate a resale shop with no Microsoft tax on the money being exchanged would make them exactly like Sony on this matter, quote from my previous argument: 'Taking a large cut from the resales will put them at a severe disadvantage to Sony so they will not do that'. So I have not ceded this point.

'Microsoft is a member of PRISM, and has been since 2007'
Computer is safe when shut down. That is correct for Xbox360s and PS3s as well. I have not ceded this point in my arguments above. Or would any of you write PSN chat messages that would put you in trouble with regard to PRISM on Xbox Live chat or in Hotmail email messages?

'Microsoft has restrictive patents relating to Kinect, that could limit how many people can watch or participate in Xbone activities like watching Netflix'
I have touched on Microsoft being held in check by competition from Sony when it comes to taxing resale of games. This is the exact same situation so I have not ceded this point as well.

'Xbone is more expensive than PS4 and Wii U'
Microsoft considers that 100$ is good value for the integrated Kinect interface to games with server unloaded processing, TV and the internet and they are coming with that offer to the consumers. Considering [XO_PS4_similar_preorders], an article before the 'u' turn on policy, they have an audience for what they are trying to sell to video game console customers. One more point I have not ceded.

'No other console has always online, DRM, or spy-cameras'
Now we're at two bullet points too many. Same set of bullet points considering twice the online check DRM and the PRISM related issues so I have not ceded the same point from above here either.

'PS4 has a greater graphical capacity'
XO may or may not have marginally worse performance than PS4, unlike Nintendo Gameboy that was trounced by Sega Game Gear in performance, and we know what juggernaut was the Game Gear in the marketplace. But I did semi drop the point on this one. Because it's like Nvidia vs Ati or Intel vs AMD. One has better brand and for the current generation of GPU or CPU one has better performance, but at the same generation the top of the line part will play new video game releases just as well. So I did not consider this to be a horrendous downside for XO in any way shape or form.

'PS4 is region-free, while Xbone is region-locked'
Most gamers are not interested in releases from other regions so I have not considered countering this argument. I believe it is besides the point. Also many japanese games are region locked on the Wii and that has not stopped it from soaring on top of Xbox360 and PS3 in sales.

Thank you for reading my arguments.

[XO_PS4_similar_preorders] http://www.cinemablend.com...
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by jonoghue 4 years ago
jonoghue
i don't know if anyone is going to contest...it's pretty true.
sony released a video on how to share a used game for the ps4. consisted of "step one: share the game" and it showed one person handing the game case to the other and the second person said "thanks!" and that was the whole video.
Posted by TN05 4 years ago
TN05
Don't worry, I will. There are at least four major issues that I plan to push, and I hope this is enough to prove my side.
Posted by Fanboy 4 years ago
Fanboy
SO OBVIOUSLY TRUE :)

I hope you represent the gamers position well.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by joshizinfamous 4 years ago
joshizinfamous
TN05Gandalf_123Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: 1). Because of the change in policy by Microsoft the obvious win goes to con. 2.) Pros only arguments that matter when i cast my vote are Kinnect and Price both of which are out foxed by Con. Con would of got my better argument vote but said vote by merit , or qualities of the debate and seeing as how i skimmed it for about 3 minutes I'm not qualified to make an impact on the point outcome of this debate.
Vote Placed by TheSupremeDebater 4 years ago
TheSupremeDebater
TN05Gandalf_123Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Because Microsoft announced that they're changing it back to the normal system. Con wins.