The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
SovereignOne
Con (against)

Yeah right. god really exists? NOT if he's kind caring and loving. Please guess and try again. Thanx

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Debate Round Forfeited
SovereignOne has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/20/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 232 times Debate No: 104538
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

There is no fricken possible way that this fricken god according to the bible can possibly exist UNLESS you believe in pure evil and utter hate. This is proven time and time again...

"'Drunk' driver kills mother-of-six who was on way home from hospital" - https://www.yahoo.com...;
If god is a god/ supreme deity he knowingly creates this drunk driver to plow into this mother of six with after visiting her premature newborn twins killing her on her way home from the hospital. That is ultra pure hate and evil. And even worse is this god/ supreme deity knowingly creates, knowing EXACTLY what will happen sextillion years in advance,that this mother of six will suffer horribly and be taken away from six children and leaving a family, friends and loved ones to grieve for as long as they live which is also pure hate and evil. Simple. And if not to all of it, then god is not a god (obviously) does not know everything, is not all knowing and is not all powerful, is not in charge of everything, most certainly is not omnipotent, and most certainly is not perfect. Simple.
And hey there are tragic events like this that happen millions of times per year. If god is god/ supreme deity, in which there's no proof he even exists, he grandly and lovingly with good cheer creates them all. Duh.

RULES:
So your job is to prove that god is kind, caring and loving and acres about us and is not a hateful, evil, malicious, venomous dirtbag that loves to cause suffering and pain among the human race.
SovereignOne

Con

This debate shouldn't be too difficult for me to win, and here's why. I can tell immediately tell by the way you have presented your argument that you have a rather limited understanding of what God is or could be. The concept has been used since before the beginning of recorded history for early human beings to explain the phenomena of life before more logical and scientific models were developed. There were gods of nature to personify the forces of our world. Then there were personal gods for more human concerns like love and war. Finally there were monotheistic cultures that gave rise to the idea of a single all-powerful God, starting with Judaism which progressed into Christianity and Islam. I could get into eastern religions and describe their concept of God too, but for the purposes of this debate let's stick with the interpretation as it is presented in the Bible.

For your argument, you have claimed that God cannot exist as described in the Bible as all powerful, all knowing, and most importantly, all good. You have based this claim on the fact that bad things happen in this world and that if God is all powerful and all knowing then God should not let anything bad happen unless God is not good, but evil. I could tell you many different reasons why this argument is invalid, though I will use one that should be sufficient in proving my point.

If your source for your understanding of God is the Bible, then you have to acknowledge all of the different aspects of God that is used therein. You have stated that it claims God to be Omnipotent and Omniscient, though have forgotten to acknowledge one of the most important parts about God's relationship to creation. It is the simple concept of Free Will. In Christianity, Free Will is held up as a pillar of vast importance because it explains that God has given God's creation complete autonomy in action. Meaning though God has created the world and mankind, God has also given us the power to do whatever we want. Why? Christians believe that God did this so that we have the freedom to choose God and all that is good, rather than being forced to be good, since that would make creation pointless.

The evil that you see would be a result of Free Will in this framework. That drunk man used his free will to drive when he shouldn't have and caused that unfortunate accident. I wouldn't be so quick to call this evil since I doubt that he intended to go out and hurt people. This man would be more guilty of foolish carelessness than he would be of pure hateful evil. But why didn't God intervene to stop this from happening? Again, its a matter of Free Will.

So do bad things happen and is there evil in the world? Yes bad things happen and it can be said that there is very much evil in the world.

But then does mean that God is evil then for letting it happen? Quite the contrary. An evil God would be one who did not let its own creations choose the way that they wanted to be. An evil God would not allow for Free Will.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

You are so right. This debate shouldn’t be this difficult to win. That’s because you can’t win. So let’s start from the bottom. You bring in the free will argument. If you believe in god, then you have no free will none. That’s not even open for debate. Oh and btw, ab-so-lu-te-ly not. You said “In Christianity, Free Will is held up as a pillar of vast importance” Um nope. You show me anywhere in your bible, and I do mean anywhere, where it states even remotely something like “I the lord thy god grants man free will.” In fact your bible states NOTHING like that. NOT even close. So until your god comes on down and says something like that to man, then sorry, you have no free will. None. Be that as it may let’s get crackin’ at the free will issue to thus further prove that you as a christian have no free will...

Here's some videos for your beady little eyes to watch to show you how twisted god is with Free Will, the paradoxes, and the evils and hate of it...

https://www.youtube.com... - All Knowing god versus Free Will: The Greatest Religious Contradiction
https://www.youtube.com... - Free Will With god
https://www.youtube.com... - god Favors Evil

https://www.youtube.com... - god allows Free Will?

Now let’s look at Free Will from god’s point of view. Well the videos already did that. So you should be brushed up on the fact that god does not have Free Will, so how can man? If you believe in god you do not have Free Will of any kind. Period. Let's look at it from god's point of view because god himself does NOT have Free Will IF he knows his future. After all, how can he if he is omnipotent because he will have already known his choices that have been chosen? That is NOT Free Will. So if YOUR god does not have Free Will and the ability to choose, most definitely man does NOT have Free Will and the ability to choose. Got it? It will only lead you---right---back---here---this---moment------in---time.

Also there's Free Will in hate? That's makes no sense whatsoever IF this god guy is supposed to be loving, caring and kind. Wow what a true MAJOR HYPOCRITICAL CONTRADICTION if there ever was one. But then again, god and the bible are riddled with thousands of hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies which proves 0 intelligence. If this god guy of yours is omnipotent and cares, with kindness, and love in which there's no way he can because this god guy can---easily---take---the---evil---and---hate---out---of---Free Will such as the brutal rape, beating and torturing of a 6 year old girl as an example. But no, he doesn't. He leaves it in. Thus that absolutely proves that this god of yours IS EVIL(and he freely admits it several times is HIS bible. Would you like the verses?) AND IS BASED ON HATE as he truly hates children and knowingly creates children to suffer. WHAT? What kind of supreme deity PURPOSELY does this? And he freely admits it.

“I can tell immediately tell by the way you have presented your argument that you have a rather limited understanding of what God is or could be.” Well um no. god according to everybody out there who believes in him is the ultimate ruler of everything and thus the ultimate controller of everything. Its that simple. I don’t have to put any words into what god thinks or knows to get that one in the clear to know that.

OK so once again you get into Free Will which as proposed is a losing conversation from your end. Its completely unwinnable. Here’s some more on Free Will to drive the hammer home…
Tracie Harris: "Your question was regarding free will as an argument for allowing suffering. That's when you get into the problem of evil. Now the problem of evil as we all know is not an argument that demonstrates that no god exists or that god exists. What it demonstrates is that god is your god is an a$$eth. What she's telling you is she believes in a god, and I assume she worships this god? Its like is she 'happy' about her god?" Caller: "Oh oh yeah everything except for the old testament." Tracie "In other words what she is saying is 'I love this god who believes that the free will of the rapist is more important than the free will of the child being raped. That I think that its worth it to have a child be raped because I really really put a high value on a rapist's free will.’"

When she dies does she get to go to heaven? If she gets to go to heaven will she be happy? And she’ll probably say “yes”. And you say “Will you be able to choose and do anything you want while you are in heaven?” And she’ll say “yes.” And so you are basically saying “you’ll have free will in heaven?” So you have free will in heaven and no one is being hurt, raped, so you can do anything you want and no one gets hurt. If god has that power in heaven, he must have that power on earth. So he’s chose not to set that condition/ toggle switch which means he’s a dick. Phil Ferguson

“Could god have made the world and not suffering? And if they say “no” then he’s not all powerful. If they say “yes”, then why didn’t he? Its a constant thing. There’s multiple ways to come at it.” Phil Ferguson

“God has also given us the power to do whatever we want.” Un no he hasn’t. Are you kidding? What do you think the 10 commandments are? A loaf of bread? Um no they tie you down. God ties you down to do what HE WANTS you to do. And every commandment except for one threatens you with death if not obeyed. And threatening you with death is NOT free will.

Also do you really really really think that your god is going to give your free will to thus screw up his big mighty plan that he has? Are you joking?

“The evil that you see would be a result of Free Will in this framework.” Oh I get it, so according to you, god guides others to do evil within his own paradoxes. Correct? I mean after all god did create satan which is evil. And if god is god and he knows everything and is omnipotent, he would have certainly must have known that satan would have turned out to be evil, so in creating satan, that makes god and evil demented war[ed sick diseased son of a b**ch. And that’s who you bow down to, worship, and kneel to. Good job. Keep it going. We really need more soldiers like you. god especially for being so hateful and psychotic.

Well see god doesn’t NEED to intervene now does he? Nope. As the matter of fact there’s no NEED for evil and hate. There’s no REQUIREMENT for evil and hate. There’s no NECESSITY for evil and hate now is there? Nope. Only in your god’s twisted and vile world. Your god could have created love, peace, harmony, care for each other. Nah he chose hate and evil. Pathetic.
Your god has freely admitted to having anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. Jealousy? What from a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Even worse is this supposed god of yours passed down those emotions so man could in turn learn to hate with all the baggage that comes along with it that these emotions clearly are that this god drags around with him. Hey god, dump those emotions and how’s about thinking about peace, kindness, love, caring for each other, harmony etc? Nah. So don’t talk to me or anyone that YOUR god is “good” when he is most certainly not anything like it. Not only that since this god of YOURS has these emotions it clearly means that he is imperfect. Now who in their right stale mind would ---ever--- want to bow down to an inferior supreme deity bile god such as the one you picked from your closet because what else could it be?
Strange isn’t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu’s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do. Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord’s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god’s orders? Why? Why not?

“But then does mean that God is evil then for letting it happen? Quite the contrary. An evil God would be one who did not let its own creations choose the way that they wanted to be.” Well then that means that your god simply doesn’t care. You just proved it.Well I do care. BIG DIFFERENCE.

The problem with most christians is they do not have the ability to think, reason, rationalize, use common sense nor use logic. That's because god, religion and the bible does not require a single pounce of it.The free will issue is a perfect example. No I'm not trying to be insulting. That's one of the triggers I learned about 20 years ago and its 100% true.

SovereignOne

Con

You have lost all credibility as an unbiased, objective debater with this line: " until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out". Clearly your interest in this argument is a far more personal and/or emotional one.

You just forfeited.

I love the way that pseudo-intellectuals like you form arguments upon baseless assumptions.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Wow. Um no. You have no credibility nor integrity whatsoever and no outs also. Because if you did then you would have presented those outs to prove me wrong and you correct at all costs.
Oh and btw, your christian brethren at that moment in time when they were wiping out the native American Indians were indeed greasy sweaty and amazingly racist. That’s what your god’s chosen people most certainly were and still unto this day are. If you don’t like it that’s not my problem, that’s entirely yours. Too bad.
Oh and btw, That’s something that you will learn in college my dear nobody. Since you know nothing and you have to thus invent excuses and pretend that you profess to have knowledge about in which case you really don’t as proved here, especially in RD1, in which case, quite obviously you didn’t respond to,
So you forfeited the debate by your own margin of error, rules and regulations. Oh darn. Your kind just cannot stand to lose. Well you just lost. Bye.

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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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